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Buy Beans To Fight Hunger Danger


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Oil supply is on a bell curve, somewhere near the top, it won't suddenly run out. We may find it more and more expensive as our economy slides down the world ranking, but we are not going to say 'Oh dear, oil is $400/barrel, let's stop growing food'.

A lot of posters on here are dismissive of the UK. Why? this is an exceptionally fertile country with plentiful water. The people are another matter, there are a lot of idiots now with a frankly comical sense of entitlement. Also there are a lot of youngsters whose opportunities have been taken away by recent mismanagement of the economy, systematic theft by the elite and chronic obsession with property ownership.

All very annoying but none of that has degraded the capacity of the huge tracts of good to excellent arable and pasture in the UK AFAIK.

well put . There's plenty of countries who'd have a harder time than us if they had to grow 100% of their food. Some peope don't seem to understand the difference between having to import something cos it wouldn't grow here and importing because it makes economic sense .

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Was the importation of grain and feed taken into account when calculating if we are self sufficient in meat and dairy? Also, as someone pointed our, agriculture is fuel intensive and we are not self sufficient in fuel.

No idea about the inclusion of locally sourced feed (or not). The UK might not be self sufficient in fuel, but we are closer to that than most.

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Fortunately this village has a community orchard, several acres of trees which are cared for on a voluntary basis. Of course, the fruit is available to those who can be bothered.

As for council houses, few try to grow veggies/fruit trees but at least they have the option.

I thought they grew fridges and old mattresses in council house front gardens

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Reason it stopped is because it was made illegal to feed food waste to pigs.

Until then it was the main reason to keep a pig.

If you go round reconstructions of primative houses you will see that even the human excrement is directed into the pig pen for further processing!

When I was at school, someone kept pigs in their garden which backed onto the playground. Imagine what the elf and safety brigade would have to say about that today. :rolleyes:

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The UK is such a small, pathetic island with no means of feeding itself that I fear we could see riots and ham price inflation.

The UK is not small: Great Britain is the world's 10th largest island. The majority of it is countryside, and the majority of that is suitable for growing food or suitable for grazing animals.

& this would be the pratice of a normal 1st world country you think ?

chris25 made a very valid point imo. The UK is a net importer regardless of what the VI stats try to tell you.

the UK if absolutely fooked.

Yes the UK is a net importer, but it does not HAVE to be. If we wanted to return to subsistence farming we could. Yes this is not normal for a 1st world country in 2009, but it might be in 2109.

You'd be surprised how quickly people will put down the X-box and pick up the Plough handle when their life depends upon it.

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The UK is not small: Great Britain is the world's 10th largest island. The majority of it is countryside, and the majority of that is suitable for growing food or suitable for grazing animals.

Yes the UK is a net importer, but it does not HAVE to be. If we wanted to return to subsistence farming we could. Yes this is not normal for a 1st world country in 2009, but it might be in 2109.

You'd be surprised how quickly people will put down the X-box and pick up the Plough handle when their life depends upon it.

I grow all my own veg at the bottom of my garden. I would keep chickens if it weren't for that pesky fox!

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I thought they grew fridges and old mattresses in council house front gardens

A fridge on its back with the door removed & filled with soil is good for your herbs.

I'll get back to you on the mattress :unsure:

Laura's hills have eyes ph34r.gif

Hillwalking holiday is/was it 'Vote'?

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When I was at school, someone kept pigs in their garden which backed onto the playground. Imagine what the elf and safety brigade would have to say about that today. :rolleyes:

The thing is, people tend to assume that "oh, we wouldn't be able to do such and such nowadays".

What they forget is that IF there was a general food shortage, these regulations could and would be quickly rescinded or simply ignored.

If the global economy changed such that importing food became prohibitively expensive, it would suddenly be worthwhile for lots of things to start happening:

First, many people would grow their own stuff in gardens etc.

Second, TPTB could and would allocated far more land for communal growing.

Third, farmers and smallholders who currently get paid to "set aside" land or who don't find it worthwhile to keep more animals and/or grow more crops on every half acre, would find it suddenly DID pay to do so, so they would do it.

Think WW2 - Dig For Victory.

We might have to do without apples air-freighted in from South Africa, etc, and get used to certain crops only being available when "in season" locally, but we surely wouldn't starve.

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Get Them Beans

HPI may be the least of our worries when the Crunchy Nut Cornflakes run out. :rolleyes:

The UK is such a small, pathetic island with no means of feeding itself that I fear we could see riots and ham price inflation.

More drama awaits us. Are you ready?? :ph34r:

Yes. When Scotland breaks away from the UK and is producing 10 times it's own food and drink consumption (a la New Zealand) England will be stuffed.

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A Private Function

In a small Northern English town in 1947 the citizens endure continuing food rationing in the United Kingdom. Some local businessmen want to hold a party to celebrate the royal wedding of Princess Elizabeth to Prince Philip and illegally decide to raise a pig for that occasion. However the pig gets stolen by Gilbert Chilvers (Michael Palin) who was encouraged to do so by his wife Joyce (Maggie Smith). Meanwhile a food inspector is determined to stop activities circumventing the food rationing.

I think I may get this on DVD and watch it for tips on clandestine pig keeping

Edited to note this is not available on Anamzon except at an extortionate price, fuel for a conspiracy thread here?

Edited by DaisyB
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A Private Function

I think I may get this on DVD and watch it for tips on clandestine pig keeping

A very funny film with the combined talents of Michael Palin, Dame Maggie Smith, Liz Smith, Richard Griffiths, Denholm Elliot.

'We're going to kill you, pig. And that'll tek smile off yer face'.

'No feet at the table Gilbert'

'Right Gilbert. I think sexual intercourse is in order'.

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Much of the imported food on UK supermarket shelves is produced by British interests that have simply offshored production to lower cost regions, particularly in Eastern Europe and Africa

Agro-chemicals are Britain's largest export by value

So the UK economy as a whole would probably benefit significantly from a global food shortage

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Much of the imported food on UK supermarket shelves is produced by British interests that have simply offshored production to lower cost regions, particularly in Eastern Europe and Africa

Agro-chemicals are Britain's largest export by value

So the UK economy as a whole would probably benefit significantly from a global food shortage

That's interesting.

I wonder how dependent it is on inputs from the North Sea (i.e. are we really exporting oil/gas, that have been processed into chemicals?)

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We import stuff currently because its cheaper, not because we CANNOT produce our own.

No you import stuff because you have a government with an Authoritarian mentality that kowtows constantly to rules if the rule maker is structurally 'above' them, and which happen due to the structure of things, to be made to Brussels for broader political reasons than the welfare of the local economy and the reduction of food miles.

So the govt pays for farmers to leave their fields empty, as opposed to the French attitude which is to keep the EU as a matter of manners and economic convenience and apply the principles if there isn't too much resistance from the peasants, in which case Peasants v EU isn't a contest. Viva La Revolution!

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No you import stuff because you have a government with an Authoritarian mentality that kowtows constantly to rules if the rule maker is structurally 'above' them, and which happen due to the structure of things, to be made to Brussels for broader political reasons than the welfare of the local economy and the reduction of food miles.

So the govt pays for farmers to leave their fields empty, as opposed to the French attitude which is to keep the EU as a matter of manners and economic convenience and apply the principles if there isn't too much resistance from the peasants, in which case Peasants v EU isn't a contest. Viva La Revolution!

No, I think that you will find that businesses (like supermarkets) buy imports because they are cheaper, not because the government for some reason actually order them to do so.

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The UK is not small: Great Britain is the world's 10th largest island. The majority of it is countryside, and the majority of that is suitable for growing food or suitable for grazing animals.

Yes the UK is a net importer, but it does not HAVE to be. If we wanted to return to subsistence farming we could. Yes this is not normal for a 1st world country in 2009, but it might be in 2109.

You'd be surprised how quickly people will put down the X-box and pick up the Plough handle when their life depends upon it.

first of all then you are going to have to start courses for the majority of UKers to show them what fruit & vegetables are & how to recognise them.

Then you are going to have to convince them that they grow from things, & not just magically appear on a shelf in a wrapper.

ps - tell them their are no pizza & chip trees;)

on a serious note, yes I agree with your reply to me, but the point that chris25 was making, was that without oil we will be struggling. I still think this will be the case. When oil hits $200 p/b, & it will trust me (peak oil is a load of sh1te, just like global warming, it's sun spots & natural cycles that does the real damage not a few humans & cows), then the UK is goosed........

Edited by grumpy-old-man-returns
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first of all then you are going to have to start courses for the majority of UKers to show them what fruit & vegetables are & how to recognise them.

Then you are going to have to convince them that they grow from things, & not just magically appear on a shelf in a wrapper.

ps - tell them their are no pizza & chip trees;)

on a serious note, yes I agree with your reply to me, but the point that chris25 was making, was that without oil we will be struggling. I still think this will be the case. When oil hits $200 p/b, & it will trust me (peak oil is a load of sh1te, just like global warming, it's sun spots & natural cycles that does the real damage not a few humans & cows), then the UK is goosed........

The point that several others have made is that oil is not going to suddenly disappear overnight, is it?

As oil prices rise, the cost of importing food rises, this makes local growing more economically viable.

Likewise, as food prices generally rise worldwide due to increased oil costs, people have greater incentives to:

a) stop wasting food - remember the recent stats on the shocking amount of stuff just bought and binned because its a day over it s"sell by date"? When it costs more people will think before they spend or chuck out

B) grow their own food - most people could do this - its not hard - and if things get hard, watch out for endless TV series about saving money, growing veg, keeping chickens etc etc. It won't take long for people to learn how to do basic stuff like this, will it?

c) grow stuff more "naturally" and not relying on oil inputs. Organic, local, natural fertilisers, etc etc.

d) find innovative ways to grow stuff in the UK cheaply - big-scale greenhouses - what about heating them with the currently massive quantities of waste hot water and steam that emerges from most power station "cooling towers", eh?

Compared with much of the world, we here in the UK are very well-placed - plenty of good farmland, and a temperate, steady climate.

Dig for victory, people!

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first of all then you are going to have to start courses for the majority of UKers to show them what fruit & vegetables are & how to recognise them.

Then you are going to have to convince them that they grow from things, & not just magically appear on a shelf in a wrapper.

ps - tell them their are no pizza & chip trees;)

You may think you are joking, but the following is true. I know someone who took in her sister's kids (long story). She was making dinner the first night and none of the children had ever seen a fresh carrot; they thought they came in tins.

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  • 440 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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