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German Court Scuppers Lisbon Treaty

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http://news.scotsman.com/politics/German-c...into.5592028.jp

German court ruling calls into question the entire European project post Lisbon

Published Date: 27 August 2009 By Struan Stevenson A RECENT landmark legal ruling in Germany has sent the EU integration project into complete disarray. The German Constitutional Court examined the Lisbon Treaty �" the successor to the infamous EU Constitution �" and ruled the sovereignty of a member state (in this case Germany), must always take precedence over diktats from Brussels.

The Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe effectively declared itself the highest supervisory body in conflicts between Germany and the EU, thus explicitly placing itself above the authority of the European Court of Justice. As Der Spiegel reported: "This borders on a declaration of war on the European Court, which sees itself as the only authority capable of ruling on the validity and applicability of EU law."

The German judges went further by ruling the German Parliament had been wrong in passing an "accompanying law" to the Lisbon Treaty, which determined the rights of the German parliament to participate in European legislation. By passing the right to monitor the implementation of EU laws to Brussels, the Bundestag was acting unconstitutionally, said the judges, and subjecting people to the "whims of a bureaucracy that lacks sufficient democratic legitimacy". Indeed, the Karlsruhe judges ruled it was clearly not the case that "the EU parliament is a representative body of a sovereign European people" as set down in the Lisbon Treaty. They explained:

"After all, EU members of parliament were not elected according to the principle of electoral equality, in other words, one man one vote, but rather according to national contingents, meaning that a Maltese MEP represents 67,000 Maltese, a Swedish MEP has a constituency of 455,000 Swedes and in Germany, the ratio is 1 to 857,000."

The court saw this as a clear contradiction to the remainder of EU law, which is constructed around the central idea of prohibiting discrimination based on nationality. According to the court's concluding statements, this contradiction can only be explained by the fact that the EU is not a state but rather "an association of sovereign states" and, consequently, "there can be no sovereign citizens' union as well as no completely representative organ in the form of the European Parliament, with the result that the Bundestag must receive substantially more rights".

The Karlsruhe interpretation thus demolishes the old European idea that the recognised democratic deficits in the EU would disappear completely of their own accord by enhancing the rights of the European Parliament, allowing MEPs to assume the role of the national parliaments.

All of this has come as a political bombshell to the newly elected European Parliament, where Europhiles eagerly await the outcome of a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty due to be held in Ireland on 2 October, praying for a Yes vote. If the highest court in Germany can rule the EU, under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, is undemocratic, then the project aimed at further and deeper EU integration will be called into question.

UK Conservative MEPs have defected from the large, centre-right, integrationist EPP Group in the European Parliament, to form their own, more eurosceptic, European Conservatives and Reformists group (ECR).

The ECR sees itself as offering a voice to the millions of Europeans who oppose the concept of an EU superstate and instead wish to see the development of a successful economic, rather than political union.

Now, according to the German judges, national identity must take precedence over integration.

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Now this is the most exciting bit of news since idiot Heath joined what was left of Britain to the infamous EEC!

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Do you know who actually wants the EU constitution/Lisbon?

Liberals? Nope - undemocratic

Socialists? Nope - hate the idea

Rightwingers? Nope - Bloody foreigners

I'm really at a loss? :blink:

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I don't think that Europe can really work

When things are going good its Europe this great Europe etc

The French don't respect European laws they never have done and never will they just do what they want

The French get the most out of Europe to look after there farmers and to be honest alot of them are still living in another century

The French farmer will always vote "right -wing" Chirac etc as they will look after the CAP which means more money for farmers

Going back to the original thread

When it comes to international summits like the G20 in London Europe disappears

Then its back to France Germany Italy Spain etc

No mention of Europe

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Bonjour Vin Rouge !

This is, I believe, highly significant.

The first real cracks are appearing in the insane vaunting desire of Eurocrats for an EU spreading to Siberia in one direction and to the edge of the Middle East in the other.

It seems pretty obvious to me in my conversations around Europe with Greeks, the French (particularly), Germans, and Italians as well as the Spanish, that few if any of the people want the EU: it is, as always simply the politicians who want it as it gives them both more power to flatter their bloated egos and greater opportunities for snouting in the trough: and a bigger trough too!

The intense nationalism demonstrated by all except far too many Brits these days makes the concept of true federalism a non-starter.

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A most interesting article. Interesting too that a legal ruling of such significance hasn't been reported in the mainstream media, even though this article dates back to 27th August.

Its either because its unimportant or too important. :huh:

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Its either because its unimportant or too important. :huh:

It is very important and incredible that no main media source picked it up; since Germany is challenging the paramount nature of EU law!

Germany and France have been conspiring for some little time now and were expected to break away from the EU and form a different union with probably Holland, Luxembourg and perhaps Belgium if and when it gets it act together.

So who knows: perhaps this one act presages the split?

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Luckily for me I am on Prescience's ignore list so I can say whatever I like about him without worrying about upsetting him.

Not that I worry about that or have anything particularly unpleasant to say to the pompous fool other than pointing out that decrying the Brits for not suffering from "intense nationalism" is really stupid.

A reasonable and legitimate degree of nationalism is probably a very good thing bit its intense form leads to all sorts of political aberrations, that the blinking idiot may well desire, but invariably work themselves out for the bad.

And I shudder at the thought of the eyes of his French, Italian, Spanish, Greek and Germans buddies glazing over as he waxes lyrical about his illogical syllogisms or whatever the hell else it is he needs to enlighten them about.

Nazis talk about exit visas for chavs. If it comes about hopefully there will be a sub category for his ilk too.

The damage he must do to the reputation of the UK of GB and NI is ugly and best avoided.

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Luckily for me I am on Prescience's ignore list so I can say whatever I like about him without worrying about upsetting him.

Not that I worry about that or have anything particularly unpleasant to say to the pompous fool other than pointing out that decrying the Brits for not suffering from "intense nationalism" is really stupid.

A reasonable and legitimate degree of nationalism is probably a very good thing bit its intense form leads to all sorts of political aberrations, that the blinking idiot may well desire, but invariably work themselves out for the bad.

And I shudder at the thought of the eyes of his French, Italian, Spanish, Greek and Germans buddies glazing over as he waxes lyrical about his illogical syllogisms or whatever the hell else it is he needs to enlighten them about.

Nazis talk about exit visas for chavs. If it comes about hopefully there will be a sub category for his ilk too.

The damage he must do to the reputation of the UK of GB and NI is ugly and best avoided.

Exceptionally taking you off ignore on a one post basis, I see your arrant ramblings are as ill-informed and inconsequential as always.

Thanks to idiots such as yourself, for years in France when asked if I was English I replied emphatically, "Mais no M! Je suis suédois !"

Your obvious lac of knoeledge about current affairs in Europe is on par with your ill-conceived endeavours at dialectic.

I do suggest you return to pondering your latest issue of Little Leftie Weekly in order to assimilate the latest arcane and non-apposite sobriquets for those whom the Left despise, mainly since your little Bleeding Heart Common Purpose utopian vision of Britain has increasingly been discovered as unreal, impractical and simply a vain series of aspirations which beats in the bosom of the quasi-educated Marxist rabble.

I'm glad I managed to teach you a new expression, BTW: nice to be plagarised; shame terms are used incorrectly and not in correct context however.

:P

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Well, it's not a secret that Germany needs to pull out of the EU in its current form to have any real chance for economic security. All the other nations, including Britain now, are just pulling massive lumps of state capital through cross border subsidy.

No one can deny that they are the most industrious and probably the most innovative race of people on earth.

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"No one can deny that they are the most industrious and probably the most innovative race of people on earth."

Oh come on.

If they are so innovative how come 82 million Germans have only won 102 Nobel prizes, while 60 million Brits have won 113?

If they were that innovative they would have won about 135.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel...ates_by_country

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"No one can deny that they are the most industrious and probably the most innovative race of people on earth."

Oh come on.

If they are so innovative how come 82 million Germans have only won 102 Nobel prizes, while 60 million Brits have won 113?

If they were that innovative they would have won about 135.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel...ates_by_country

Even after being blown to rat snot a few times, and split up, Germany was, and still is the de facto industrialist in Europe.

Good to see that you've gloobled up a wiki reference for the forum though. Good work you.

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How interesting that one poster believes Nobel Prizes are the arbiter of economic achievement and social stability.

More interesting still perhaps to consider that Fat Al Gore is a Nobel Laureate...............

And perhaps, more significantly, the two gentlemen who assisted John Meriwether to almost engineer the ultimate Domino Effect at LTCM shared a Nobel prize................................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management

Perhaps most critical of all, to those of us who actually have some comprehension of global economics and business, West Germany as it was, beat even Japan into Balance of Trade Surplus in the late 1980s.

Germany since its post WW II recovery has been one of the critical global economic "Locomotives": which is precisely why the Bundesbank views European integration and expansion with a hugely jaundiced eye.

And expresses serious doubts about the inclusion of the basket-case economies in the ever-expanding Eurocrat's vaunting aspirations.

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"Germany was, and still is the de facto industrialist in Europe."

Much as I would like to, I don't think the facts allow one to take issue with the "industrious" part of your post but, with the greatest of respect, I think they require one to take issue on the innovation point.

Since the industrial revolution Germany has only be blown to rat snot once, in the latter stage of WWII. It was northern France and a bit of Belgium that got blown to rat snot in WWI.

And Germany did also play its part in the blowing of many other places to rat snot WWII.

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Bah humbug!

"How interesting that one poster believes Nobel Prizes are the arbiter of economic achievement and social stability."

And you promised to put me on ignore!

And I was referring to Nobel Prizes as some measure of a nation's innovative capacity not their "economic achievement and social stability".

But that's ok.

I don't hold it against you because you can neither read nor think in the true sense of both words.

BTW, how's ya biscuit?

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"Germany was, and still is the de facto industrialist in Europe."

Much as I would like to, I don't think the facts allow one to take issue with the "industrious" part of your post but, with the greatest of respect, I think they require one to take issue on the innovation point.

Since the industrial revolution Germany has only be blown to rat snot once, in the latter stage of WWII. It was northern France and a bit of Belgium that got blown to rat snot in WWI.

And Germany did also play its part in the blowing of many other places to rat snot WWII.

Meh. I don't give a flying pig fart about Nobel prizes. There is plenty of innovation going on all around us that get nary the blink of an eye.

You win. I am wrong.

Britain is indeed very innovative and well placed to weather the storm. Our future looks bright.

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Well, it's not a secret that Germany needs to pull out of the EU in its current form to have any real chance for economic security. All the other nations, including Britain now, are just pulling massive lumps of state capital through cross border subsidy.

No one can deny that they are the most industrious and probably the most innovative race of people on earth.

Really - point me to an invention of Germany that has changed the lives of millions (if not billions).

And for the better, so please don't quote National Socialism.

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Really - point me to an invention of Germany that has changed the lives of millions (if not billions).

And for the better, so please don't quote National Socialism.

I think that Diesel bloke did some interesting work. And the Haber-Bosch process was invented there (fertilizers to explosives). Oh yes, practical rockets. Etc.

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