Rot Setting In The Public Sector

[Kyoto]

We're an IT supplier almost entirely to the public sector, and have sailed through the last 2 years of the recession with good growth and increases in profits.

In the last few months though, things have really started to turn. Pretty much no new procurements or tenders are being initiated and every existing procurement is being scaled down to the bare minimum.

I am working on a number of projects where key contractors have been told to go home with a weeks notice, at vital points in the project, as no money is left in the pot to pay them. These decisions have not been cost effective.

Our customers are also being exceptionally hard nosed over invoices, seemingly giving us busy-work to prevent specifications being signed off.

I am concerned for companies like ours and some of the big consultancies, who feed off the fat and ineptitude of the public sector. If they slim down and start remotely trying to deliver value to the taxpayer, then literally millions of well paid, perceived high value jobs are at risk, as these jobs are effectively BS non-jobs.

Slightly sad about this as I'm personally in a six-figure non-job. At least I saw the situation coming a mile away and have planned accordingly, unlike most of the people I work with on a daily basis.

[interestrateripoff]

A lot of jobs are going to be lost when govt agencies decide to try and get value for money from contractors. The good times are over and the taxpayer has been royally screwed.

Just think how much of this has supported house prices.

And just what has the taxpayer been left with? Don't forget the Tories love to say this sort of free market activity always provides better value for money for taxpayers?

[HPCatlast.]

We're an IT supplier almost entirely to the public sector, and have sailed through the last 2 years of the recession with good growth and increases in profits.

In the last few months though, things have really started to turn. Pretty much no new procurements or tenders are being initiated and every existing procurement is being scaled down to the bare minimum.

I am working on a number of projects where key contractors have been told to go home with a weeks notice, at vital points in the project, as no money is left in the pot to pay them. These decisions have not been cost effective.

Our customers are also being exceptionally hard nosed over invoices, seemingly giving us busy-work to prevent specifications being signed off.

I am concerned for companies like ours and some of the big consultancies, who feed off the fat and ineptitude of the public sector. If they slim down and start remotely trying to deliver value to the taxpayer, then literally millions of well paid, perceived high value jobs are at risk, as these jobs are effectively BS non-jobs.

Slightly sad about this as I'm personally in a six-figure non-job. At least I saw the situation coming a mile away and have planned accordingly, unlike most of the people I work with on a daily basis.

You can't be serious!

Such waste, how is your country ever going to recover with that huge number of 'non jobs', and all on high salaries.

My future pension is dependant upon some prudence by the guardians of such funds.

Please confirm that it's a little windup.

RiG

[Wait & See]

A lot of jobs are going to be lost when govt agencies decide to try and get value for money from contractors. The good times are over and the taxpayer has been royally screwed.

Just think how much of this has supported house prices.

And just what has the taxpayer been left with? Don't forget the Tories love to say this sort of free market activity always provides better value for money for taxpayers?

Many non-jobbers are going to suddenly wake up and find that they have no money to buy food with.

Tied up equity and debt doesn't mean wealth.

Monkey madness coming to an end.

[bogbrush]

Good to hear. Hopefully full-on collapse will occur not to far off.

[no-way]

it aint going to happen without a massive shake up first.

The reason being absolutely no one i have met during my time in the public services

have any ideal about the value of money.

(i came over from private insurance sector so i know a little )

i.e - new school in my area pfi scheme with huge cost over runs even before completed (millions £)

and now after a year of being open all the floors are being dug up and replaced due to being the

wrong colour )

in my experience if you spend a little more time on the planning it will save a lot of costs, but public sector seem

to be wait until the last minute and then throw money at it to get it finished on time (ish)!

[Kyoto]

Please confirm that it's a little windup.

It isn't! The public sectors capacity for turning simple change into something that needs an army of consultants is not a myth.

A current buzz-word is TRANSFORMATION, which is used when the simplest business process needs to change, but in reality is an excuse for feasibility studies, impact analysis, and off-site events.

And from an IT perspective, all of this takes place via layers of people who want their cut. You will find an IBM for instance who are in their as a managed service provider, and authorised procurement agencies who want to add their 10%.

I don't want to be facetious, software does get delivered in the end and I think that we are more delivery focussed than most companies, but the point holds that at a lot of the value public sector suppliers seem to add does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

[interestrateripoff]

It isn't! The public sectors capacity for turning simple change into something that needs an army of consultants is not a myth.

A current buzz-word is TRANSFORMATION, which is used when the simplest business process needs to change, but in reality is an excuse for feasibility studies, impact analysis, and off-site events.

And from an IT perspective, all of this takes place via layers of people who want their cut. You will find an IBM for instance who are in their as a managed service provider, and authorised procurement agencies who want to add their 10%.

I don't want to be facetious, software does get delivered in the end and I think that we are more delivery focussed than most companies, but the point holds that at a lot of the value public sector suppliers seem to add does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

I think you'll find it's all about attending endless meetings and doing no real work.

Meetings are indispensable when you don't want to do anything

JK Galbraith.

[bogbrush]

It isn't! The public sectors capacity for turning simple change into something that needs an army of consultants is not a myth.

A current buzz-word is TRANSFORMATION, which is used when the simplest business process needs to change, but in reality is an excuse for feasibility studies, impact analysis, and off-site events.

And from an IT perspective, all of this takes place via layers of people who want their cut. You will find an IBM for instance who are in their as a managed service provider, and authorised procurement agencies who want to add their 10%.

I don't want to be facetious, software does get delivered in the end and I think that we are more delivery focussed than most companies, but the point holds that at a lot of the value public sector suppliers seem to add does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

Doesn't it really come down to the fact that the people who go into the public sector are administrators, those with entrepeneurial minds having gone their own way? Thus, this methodology is all they know; I have seen it in the private sector too where there isn't strong enough control on the layers of what are, essentially, clerks and operators.

Tip: In running a business, prevent more than four layers being created no matter what the size of the business. Layers create middle ranking jobs whose entire purpose becomes to feed those above with what they want to hear and keep those below quiet. The whole public sector is essentially almost one mass of middle layer people, plus some doers.

[Garry AKA Pod]

I am concerned for companies like ours and some of the big consultancies, who feed off the fat and ineptitude of the public sector. If they slim down and start remotely trying to deliver value to the taxpayer, then literally millions of well paid, perceived high value jobs are at risk, as these jobs are effectively BS non-jobs.

Slightly sad about this as I'm personally in a six-figure non-job. At least I saw the situation coming a mile away and have planned accordingly, unlike most of the people I work with on a daily basis.

So to summarise, your pished off that the public sector tap is being turned off?

[Kyoto]

So to summarise, your pished off that the public sector tap is being turned off?

Not in the slightest. 5 years living expenses in the bank and will be emigrating within the next year regardless.

[hilltop]

So to summarise, your pished off that the public sector tap is being turned off?

I am with you on this, Jimothy. A six figure salary at risk too! How many of these idle public servants earn anything remotely like that?

Crocodile tears methinks, from exploitative private sector parasites.

[Garry AKA Pod]

Not in the slightest. 5 years living expenses in the bank and will be emigrating within the next year regardless.

Best of luck.

Just hope this wakes up a few on this forum to the news that a lot of private sector work is reliant on the public sector. In other words, this country is in an even bigger mess than a lot think.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Miam I Vice?

[Neverland]

Not in the slightest. 5 years living expenses in the bank and will be emigrating within the next year regardless.

You'll probably see all the former bankers, estate agents and property developers on the beach

All many "businesses" involve is spotting a temporary economic anomally (sp?) or perceived anomally (sp?) and exploiting the hell out out of it...

Unfortunately, it doesnt usually last long...

In the OPs case its public sector spending, for others its been:

- Bulgarian/Spanish/Dubai holiday homes

- BTL high rises in Leeds

- exotic banking derivative products

- private equity

- hedge funds

- the internet

- tulips

- the South Sea bubble

The idea that there is anything noble or creative about private enterprise against the public sector or vice versa is frankly laughable

[Si1]

I am with you on this, Jimothy. A six figure salary at risk too! How many of these idle public servants earn anything remotely like that?

Crocodile tears methinks, from exploitative private sector parasites.

it's human nature you nitwit. the govt left the safe door open, but it's not their responsibility, oh no.

[Godley]

blah blah blah blah blah.....................

These decisions have not been cost effective.

Blah blah blah blah blah............

You didn't need to put that bit in, we could safely assume this to be the case.

[Kyoto]

I am with you on this, Jimothy. A six figure salary at risk too! How many of these idle public servants earn anything remotely like that?

Crocodile tears methinks, from exploitative private sector parasites.

You have read it wrong. I have indeed benefited from it, but I can see with crystal clarity that it's all a farcicle waste of money and am here pointing out as much.

If we go down the pan it will be an inconvenience for me, but I saw it for what it was from the moment I took this career move. Hence why I save hard, and spend minimally (e.g. take the bus to work and live in a small rented flat.)

Anyway, a bit off topic. I just wanted to share my first hand observation that the public sector is starting to feel the affects.

[Si1]

The idea that there is anything noble or creative about private enterprise against the public sector or vice versa is frankly laughable

yes, of course. but then those that support market economics do so EXACTLY because of the flaws in human nature, and how a control economy always f*cks up, like this one has. This is not an excuse for more socialism - rather less.

[Tonkers]

I know a graphic designer who made a mint out of the lillenium dome. However, he then lost it all.

[Neverland]

I am with you on this, Jimothy. A six figure salary at risk too! How many of these idle public servants earn anything remotely like that?

Crocodile tears methinks, from exploitative private sector parasites.

So the private sector is exploiting the public sector?

I think if you took into account the real value of a final salary pension scheme many of these "idle public servants" are getting a "six figure salary"

The only difference with the private sector is you get your cash up front...

Unfortunately, many of these people on both the public and private side are going to have to find some other game to play as HMG's income/expenditure deficit (sp?) is around about 12-13% at the moment...

[Godley]

Crocodile tears methinks, from exploitative private sector parasites.

This school of thought always interests me.

The public sector is good private sector evil. The evil private sector sucking the blood of the good old public sector.

Question for you.

Would a private sector company be so easily leached off?..................I doubt it...........then why?. The failing is on the part of the public sector, it allowed itself to be screwed. The private sector is just doing the screwing, perfectly reprsentative of human behaviour. One allows itself to be screwed then the other will screw.

[Neverland]

yes, of course. but then those that support market economics do so EXACTLY because of the flaws in human nature, and how a control economy always f*cks up, like this one has. This is not an excuse for more socialism - rather less.

I would say that this would be an argument for whatever socialism you have to be effective, cf. Scandinavian model

However, looking at the current economic conditions, its pretty obvious the UK state needs to be smaller...

....as at some point the government's debt needs to be paid down

[Si1]

This school of thought always interests me.

The public sector is good private sector evil. The evil private sector sucking the blood of the good old public sector.

Question for you.

Would a private sector company be so easily leached off?..................I doubt it...........then why?. The failing is on the part of the public sector, it allowed itself to be screwed. The private sector is just doing the screwing, perfectly reprsentative of human behaviour. One allows itself to be screwed then the other will screw.

the transfer of responsibility is shocking.

the public sector signed the contracts, and now it's the bankers and other parts of the private sector's fault that the public purse is empty.

"socialism works just fine until they run out of other people's money' - M.Thatcher

[Si1]

I would say that this would be an argument for whatever socialism you have to be effective, cf. Scandinavian model

However, looking at the current economic conditions, its pretty obvious the UK state needs to be smaller...

....as at some point the government's debt needs to be paid down

a fai and more balanced retort to my rantings!

[Si1]

So the private sector is exploiting the public sector?

I think if you took into account the real value of a final salary pension scheme many of these "idle public servants" are getting a "six figure salary"

The only difference with the private sector is you get your cash up front...

and of course the public sector probably won't get anywhere near the pensions they think they will, whereas the smarter private contracters will have sensibly inflation-proofed their il-gotten gains (which they are, in a strict moral but not legal sense)