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Jag/landrover Hurt Tatr

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"Jaguar Advance Payment Plan"

Pay around 65% now, then after two years either pay the balance outstanding or return the car to us"

WTF, 65% depreciation after 2 years :o

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But Jag have become rebadged Fords/Lincolns.

It was a mass-market bubblenomics approach to create short-term profit and was almost guaranteed to kill off the marque's reputation for anyone who knew.

But then again I would guess that was the whole idea for an oppurtunistic company like Tata. They're not in it for preservation of heritage, pride or jobs are they?

By the way get to bed you lot. I'm off on my week's holiday to Berlin hence being up at an ungodly hour.

Go on, cup of hot milk and be off with ya! :lol:

TFH

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But Jag have become rebadged Fords/Lincolns.

It was a mass-market bubblenomics approach to create short-term profit and was almost guaranteed to kill off the marque's reputation for anyone who knew.

But then again I would guess that was the whole idea for an oppurtunistic company like Tata. They're not in it for preservation of heritage, pride or jobs are they?

By the way get to bed you lot. I'm off on my week's holiday to Berlin hence being up at an ungodly hour.

Go on, cup of hot milk and be off with ya! :lol:

TFH

The Jag XF, new XJ and XK are not rebadged fords anymore. They actually make some pretty damn decent cars.

Trouble is the luxury car market is as saturated as a wet sponge. Luxury cars used to make up about 8% of all car sales, the figure has been over 20% now.

Think of all those Audis, Porches, Lexus's, BMW's, Astons, Bentleys, Land Rovers, Jags, Maserati's etc you see out in the roads.

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The Jag XF, new XJ and XK are not rebadged fords anymore. They actually make some pretty damn decent cars.

Trouble is the luxury car market is as saturated as a wet sponge. Luxury cars used to make up about 8% of all car sales, the figure has been over 20% now.

Think of all those Audis, Porches, Lexus's, BMW's, Astons, Bentleys, Land Rovers, Jags, Maserati's etc you see out in the roads.

Mass produced luxury...thanks to the wonder of mechanisation.

shame about the premium prices only being available through finance.

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consolidated loss of 3.3 billion rupees (£42 million) after tax for its first quarter. In the same period a year ago, before the inclusion of JLR, Tata made a profit of 7.2 billion rupees.

That's got to hurt!

Anybody know what is the problem with Jaguar and Land Rover? Is it over-paid workers like GM or just rubbish management?

I am a fan of both brands' products.

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consolidated loss of 3.3 billion rupees (£42 million) after tax for its first quarter. In the same period a year ago, before the inclusion of JLR, Tata made a profit of 7.2 billion rupees.

That's got to hurt!

Anybody know what is the problem with Jaguar and Land Rover? Is it over-paid workers like GM or just rubbish management?

I am a fan of both brands' products.

is it people arent buying luxury cars in numbers...gas guzzlers, and 4x4 are so 207.

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But Jag have become rebadged Fords/Lincolns.
Not quite - they might be based on Fords, like the X-type was based on the Ford Mondeo platform, but it was very different. For instance most X-types are 4-wheel-drive, whereas the version of the Mondeo it was derived from was front-wheel-drive. And to my mind the X Type is actually less attractive than the Mondeo.

The Land Rover Defender now has a Ford Transit tdci diesel engine, but that doesn't make it a Ford.

The new Jaguar XF looks lovely, the new XJ a bit less so, but they are fine cars, bringing Jaguar into the modern age - but that modern age is that of 2007, as stated in the post above.

Edited by blankster

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Anybody know what is the problem with Jaguar and Land Rover? Is it over-paid workers like GM or just rubbish management?

Delusions of adequacy.

Actually that's not fair, the Land Rover guys know the industry, know their products and are very talent engineers. Land Rover profits will come back.

The guys at Jaguar, however, appear to think it’s still 1956.

Ford bought Jaguar in 1989, guess how much profit it earned over the last 20 years?

If Tata are going to make Jaguar profitable they need to sack every single salaried employee and start over.

Edit: Missing words

Edited by feed

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However if Tata are going to make Jaguar profitable they need to sack every single salaried employee and start over.

Develop in UK, assemble in India?

Edited by HostPaul TAFKA Rover2000

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Delusions of adequacy.

Actually that's not fair, the Land Rover guys know the industry, know their products and are very talent engineers. Land Rover profits will come back.

The guys at Jaguar, however, appear to think it’s still 1956.

Ford bought Jaguar in 1989, guess how much profit it earned over the last 20 years?

If Tata are going to make Jaguar profitable they need to sack every single salaried employee and start over.

Edit: Missing words

They are the same people! Did you not know they were merged companies sharing the same facilities and engineers?

Land Rover will struggle in the coming years, of all the vehicles that could have stamped their mark for green credential given their vehicle are intended for use out in the wilderness it was the Land Rover brand.

When I left JLR in 07 I was involved in projects trying to shoehorn yet bigger less efficient engines into their models. This strategy seemed insanity to me at the time and contribute to me giving up on the Automotive industry.

The engineers are good and it is the management that is to blame, although they had the complexities of dealing with a parent company that clearly had little ability to manage either.

JLR made a loss the entire time I was with them and this was at a time as an earlier poster pointed out sales of Luxury vehicles more than doubled as a percentage of market share. A significant amount of restructuring is required in the coming years.

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Develop in UK, assemble in India?

To be honest I'm not sure if there is a problem with the plant or shop floor staff, but then, I never really meet them, so wouldn't know.

The problem I see is more cultural, it starts at senior management. They genuinely believe that they are a small independent luxury manufacturer, with a world class heritage and people will pay a premium for their badge alone, irrespective of the cost or competition.

For the 20 years that they were bank rolled by Ford, they hated it, they just didn’t think an American company was good enough to own the brand, and despite the billions invested, there was an arrogance; We are Jaguar, we do things the Jaguar way, even if they are less effective and ten times are expensive.

I maybe wrong, but I doubt they're enjoying being owned by an Indian company.

Land Rover on the other hand, were very much, well we're all in this together, lets just get on with it and make it work. The company had a completely different personality. I'm sure they'll have no problems working with Tata.

Edited by feed

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They are the same people! Did you not know they were merged companies sharing the same facilities and engineers?

Perhaps this is just my Ford point of view,

But there was a very different feel, between working with guys on Land Rover funded projects and Jaguar funded ones.

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