bogbrush Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8227236.stm More of the same fannying around when they are scared stiff of addressing why some people behave dysfunctionally. However, this lady deserves a pat on the back for summing them up very nicely; Policy director Isabella Sankey said: "How many times can you spin a new 'crackdown' without tackling the causes of offending behaviour? "It will be jelly bean Asbos for sugared-up kids next. Surely it's time to call last orders on endless new legislation." Of course, Plod was happy; Metropolitan Police Commander Simon O'Brien, who speaks for the Association of Chief Police Officers on alcohol licensing, said the orders "add to the toolbox of tactics" in tackling drunken and persistent offenders. "Toolbox", ffs.They can't stop, Isabella, because they can't look behind symptoms to root causes. That might mean noticing that the behaviour they condemn is reinforced by proscriptive government control (for example, removing the ability of schools to regulate behaviour on their own premises), not reduced. They are literally incapable of running the place, whether socially or economically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's just Munchausen Syndrome by proxy - they ruin society, and take away peoples' own mechanisms for self-repair and renewal, and thus demonstrate the need for big govt to protect people from themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMX9 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Quickest way to end anti social behaviour. Send the yobs round to the homes of 'Liberty' directors and do gooder lawyers so they can be terrorised for a few weeks. They would soon change their tune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankster Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) If someone is drunk and disorderly, it's easy to prove on the spot. The police should have the power to impose on-the-spot prison sentences of up to five days for drunks who cause trouble, without a court case. Caught causing trouble while drunk in public? - Immediate removal to the slammer for 5 days. Edited August 31, 2009 by blankster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If someone is drunk and disorderly, it's easy to prove on the spot. really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Alpha Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8227236.stmMore of the same fannying around when they are scared stiff of addressing why some people behave dysfunctionally. However, this lady deserves a pat on the back for summing them up very nicely; Of course, Plod was happy; "Toolbox", ffs. They can't stop, Isabella, because they can't look behind symptoms to root causes. That might mean noticing that the behaviour they condemn is reinforced by proscriptive government control (for example, removing the ability of schools to regulate behaviour on their own premises), not reduced. They are literally incapable of running the place, whether socially or economically. I'm not sure what argument you are putting forward here. Are you saying the Government are not being tough enough in addressing the root causes? Or are you saying that the Government should not interfere with someone's right to get drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Or are you saying that the Government should not interfere with someone's right to get drunk? I don't care if people drink to excess as long as 1. they don't do it near where I live 2. they don't expect me to pay for a new liver for them 3. they pay for the clear up of the mess and damage they make 4. they have pisshead insurance for the medical treatment they need whilst being drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogbrush Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm not sure what argument you are putting forward here. Are you saying the Government are not being tough enough in addressing the root causes? Or are you saying that the Government should not interfere with someone's right to get drunk? I'm suggesting that drink ASBOs just show that they have no clue why people behave badly. The more they interfere the more they f*ck things up, and the only answer they have is more rules. And the idea someone put up about police making on the spot fines without proof of guilt is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkie Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Ban fox hunting successfully: attack Tory voters. Get tough on binge fueled drinking: attack Labour voters. Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 If someone is drunk and disorderly, it's easy to prove on the spot. The police should have the power to impose on-the-spot prison sentences of up to five days for drunks who cause trouble, without a court case. Caught causing trouble while drunk in public? - Immediate removal to the slammer for 5 days. What would then be considered 'causing trouble while drunk'? Whatever they want it to be? If you are fighting or vandalising, laws are in place for that drunk or no. If someone is just staggering home blotto can they now be locked up for 5 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 What would then be considered 'causing trouble while drunk'? Whatever they want it to be? If you are fighting or vandalising, laws are in place for that drunk or no. If someone is just staggering home blotto can they now be locked up for 5 days? Exactly. All we have is legislation piled upon legislation with none of it effective. Laws are already in place to 'tackle' 'anti-social behaviour'. And probably have been in place for hundreds of years. What is lacking is the wherewithall to apply them properly and deal with the consequences of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Alpha Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm suggesting that drink ASBOs just show that they have no clue why people behave badly. The more they interfere the more they f*ck things up, and the only answer they have is more rules.And the idea someone put up about police making on the spot fines without proof of guilt is crazy. To be honest, I don't think I know why people behave badly either. Do you? I'm sure though that there is no 'silver bullet' which cures it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godless Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Whats wrong with a copper, for example, locking up a dysfunctional drunk for the night and charging them for the accommodation, whilst elsewhere helping a merry old soul in the right direction to a taxi/home at the same time. Lack of faith in authority and a breakdown in the balance of justice combined with a complete disregard by TPTB for the people of this country has led and will continue to lead to disorder. The misanthropic attitude that pervades those that seek power will always be at odds with the free and open expressions of the people they rule. The chaos that is created so that the angels of righteousness can remain in their position of power is evident in every section of our society as revealed by the expressed resentment of the ruled. Laws and counter-laws to keep everybody trapped in a narrow space of existence while the angels of power indulge themselves in the expansive world of debauched fantasy. Carry on! Edited August 31, 2009 by godless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Heart Attack Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Exactly. All we have is legislation piled upon legislation with none of it effective. Laws are already in place to 'tackle' 'anti-social behaviour'. And probably have been in place for hundreds of years. What is lacking is the wherewithall to apply them properly and deal with the consequences of doing so. This whole thing puzzles me. I started going out when I was 15 to pubs. Got into a (very) few scrapes over the last 20 years. I feel totally safe at nights just as I did in the early 90s - and this is in central Newcastle upon Tyne, apparently somewhere with a "reputation". The world doesn't seem that different to me and people don't either. The only difference is that complete and utter kill-joy working-class-hater, drinker-hater, smoker-hater, fast-food-hater (etc etc etc) control freaks seem to have the ear of government and the police now, not the population. I hate this f**king country. I remember it when I was younger - a tolerant, quirky, interesting place to live where you could pretty much do as you want. Can I have my country back please??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I started going out when I was 15 to pubs. Got into a (very) few scrapes over the last 20 years. I feel totally safe at nights just as I did in the early 90s - and this is in central Newcastle upon Tyne, apparently somewhere with a "reputation".The world doesn't seem that different to me and people don't either. The only difference is that complete and utter kill-joy working-class-hater, drinker-hater, smoker-hater, fast-food-hater (etc etc etc) control freaks seem to have the ear of government and the police now, not the population. the odd punch up outside a boozer is certainly not as disturbing or morally criminal as the implicit threat of violence from the governing classes if you don't conform to what they deem right for you, or the manipulative and bullying way they have achieved power - whether public sector middle management, or the Labour govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potwalloper Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The world doesn't seem that different to me and people don't either. The only difference is that complete and utter kill-joy working-class-hater, drinker-hater, smoker-hater, fast-food-hater (etc etc etc) control freaks seem to have the ear of government and the police now, not the population.I hate this f**king country. I remember it when I was younger - a tolerant, quirky, interesting place to live where you could pretty much do as you want. Can I have my country back please??? I do hope so. And when you do, the problem with drunks won't be as bad.... Cygnus Alpha - you refuse to get it, don't you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus Alpha Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I do hope so.And when you do, the problem with drunks won't be as bad.... Cygnus Alpha - you refuse to get it, don't you. What is it you want me to 'get'? If you let me know, we can debate it. Or it could be that you have nothing to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Spart Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Boozbos. What about asbos for those punch drunk on power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Whats wrong with a copper, for example, locking up a dysfunctional drunk for the night and charging them for the accommodation, whilst elsewhere helping a merry old soul in the right direction to a taxi/home at the same time. Lack of faith in authority and a breakdown in the balance of justice combined with a complete disregard by TPTB for the people of this country has led and will continue to lead to disorder. The misanthropic attitude that pervades those that seek power will always be at odds with the free and open expressions of the people they rule. The chaos that is created so that the angels of righteousness can remain in their position of power is evident in every section of our society as revealed by the expressed resentment of the ruled. Laws and counter-laws to keep everybody trapped in a narrow space of existence while the angels of power indulge themselves in the expansive world of debauched fantasy.Carry on! Carry on indeed! They shut ALL of the public toilets and I get fined for urinating in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer! Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 This whole thing puzzles me.I started going out when I was 15 to pubs. Got into a (very) few scrapes over the last 20 years. I feel totally safe at nights just as I did in the early 90s - and this is in central Newcastle upon Tyne, apparently somewhere with a "reputation". The world doesn't seem that different to me and people don't either. The only difference is that complete and utter kill-joy working-class-hater, drinker-hater, smoker-hater, fast-food-hater (etc etc etc) control freaks seem to have the ear of government and the police now, not the population. I hate this f**king country. I remember it when I was younger - a tolerant, quirky, interesting place to live where you could pretty much do as you want. Can I have my country back please??? Agreed totally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogs Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) They are literally incapable of running the place, whether socially or economically. I think that illusion is part of the problem; I'd question to what extent any of this is in the hands of government. All this is wrenching at the levers of power, but nobody wants to admit they aren't connected to anything. Reminds me somewhat of that adulterer John Major yelling at everyone, Canute-like, to behave themselves when he couldn't even restrain his and his colleagues sordid appetites. The Beeb had it inadvertently right on the World Service the other night; they said the government were under a lot of pressure on the issue from newspapers and opinion polls. As such this new legislation exactly meets the requirement of being an paper solution for a paper problem. Not that drunken behaviour isn't a real problem, but they have no interest in tackling that, the problem they are interested is stories about drunkenness in newspapers. Problem is not "doing something" has been indefensible in politics, if there is a real conspiracy around its that politicians like to pretend everything is in their reach or would be if only The Other Lot weren't in power messing things up. The cops have no real problems with dealing with drunks (legally) and already a spectrum of offences they can select from depending on how they judge the situation and what stats their boss wants. Edited August 31, 2009 by Cogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm shitfaced and it's great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 This whole thing puzzles me.I started going out when I was 15 to pubs. Got into a (very) few scrapes over the last 20 years. I feel totally safe at nights just as I did in the early 90s - and this is in central Newcastle upon Tyne, apparently somewhere with a "reputation". The world doesn't seem that different to me and people don't either. The only difference is that complete and utter kill-joy working-class-hater, drinker-hater, smoker-hater, fast-food-hater (etc etc etc) control freaks seem to have the ear of government and the police now, not the population. I hate this f**king country. I remember it when I was younger - a tolerant, quirky, interesting place to live where you could pretty much do as you want. Can I have my country back please??? Can I point out all the no-no, politically uncorrect pleasures were introduced by Global Multi-Nationals who made/make Trillions of £££'s out of us thru brainwashing in media - then occultly 'twist' the 'blame' on the population thru the control freak / Fascistas! Start > McDonalds/Burger King > Media Adverts (mainly aimed at kids for the 'pestapower') buy buy buy > fascistas to population >"it's your fault for buying" etc MAN-ipulation by Big Business - they are out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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