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Petrol Up Again From Tomorrow


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Question is, do I drag myself out of the house today and fill up for the sake of 50p? I might do just on principle.

Are they admitting this is a tax rise? And not just blaming 'the price of oil' as they normally do when fuel creeps up?

On my way I went to fill up with petrol and the local station was packed. Multiple pumps out of petrol or diesel.

Would be stupid to go fill up for the sake of it unless the station is quite near. The fuel you burn will be worth more than the saving.

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It can raise money for the kind people who collect the fines, but not for the exchequer. You can only pay a trivial amount in fines before losing the license. Admittedly, the fines for driving while banned can be higher but you can only pay so many of those before getting jailed.

I strongly suspect we'll see a new points regime soon that allows you to commit many speeding offences before being disqualified for driving (we've already seen moves towards variable 2-4 point fixed penalities instead of a standard 3).

It will be introduced at the same time as lower limits (they already want to lower rural roads to 50) and all encompassing traffic cameras.

This government (and any future one) is going to be taxing, taxing, taxing to the extent where they simply will have to disguise many taxes as health and safety or eco measures.

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You've made the mistake of not applying your fixed costs to each journey. "Regular" suggests to me around a once per week journey. So unless you are spending (70-35)*52= ~£1750 or less on depreciation/insurance/road tax/parking each year, it would be cheaper to take the train.

You make the false assumption that this is the only trip the car makes.

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He's essentially correct. Pedestrian, and especially child pedestrian, deaths and injuries are worse for 4x4s than normal saloons. Although you'll be pleased to know that the new RAV4 is better than say, an X3 or Range Rover in this respect LINK. The bigger the 4x4 the higher the chance of pulverising a kid in a low speed impact. All children are careless BTW.

As for the fuel consumption; you should compare like for like, not cherry pick the worst alternatives. If you were to drop the diesel engine from your RAV4 into a normal saloon in Toyota's range (geared appropriately) then you'd probably get 20% or thereabouts more MPG. Your statement is an argument for replacing older cars with more efficient newer diesel cars, not for RAV4's being magically super efficient.

The added weight and poor aerodynamics (larger x-sectional area and worse Cd) of 4x4s carry a 15-25% fuel penalty, and worse acceleration and a lower top end.

The person who called me 'scum' for driving a car that returns 45MPG can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't care less about drag co-effiecients, acceleration or top speed. You could continue to extrapolate that argment ad-infinitum. The fact is, 45MPG is a very good figure, and if all cars on the planet achieved that kind of figure then it would be reason to celebrate.

It's a typical eco-warrior/noveau green ploy to label motorists as planet destroying monsters, when in fact, some of us motorists lead very simple and enivormentally friendly lives. I only drive maybe 5,000 miles per year anyway. That's a hell of a lot less polution than some self righteous tw@t achieving 52MPG in a Prius.

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Fair enough. It would reduce the drag on the car a bit...

Seriously, I think it would reduce it by a significant amount.

I don't know why they haven't started putting cameras in the cars and displaying the wing mirror info on TFT screens.

Plus it would get rid of the blind spot as well.

Probably due to the fact manufacturers make a batch replacing busted wing mirrors ...

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Better drag coefficient.

Plus I'm going to remove the lump of birdsh*t cemented onto the bonnet. That's gotta be worth a few p over the next month.

I have a 14 mile each way commute. So I've taken out the spare wheel and replaced it with a 'spare tyre in a can' - that saves 15kg. It's one of those 1/2 width wheels with a 50mph max rating, so no great loss. And if they're good enough for Ferrari's then they're good enough for me!

The other thing I do is never fill the tank more that half full - another 25kg saving. Probably improves fuel consumption by mere 1 to 2%, but I'd rather the cash saved be in my bank a/c than the tax man's!

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I have a 14 mile each way commute. So I've taken out the spare wheel and replaced it with a 'spare tyre in a can' - that saves 15kg. It's one of those 1/2 width wheels with a 50mph max rating, so no great loss. And if they're good enough for Ferrari's then they're good enough for me!

The other thing I do is never fill the tank more that half full - another 25kg saving. Probably improves fuel consumption by mere 1 to 2%, but I'd rather the cash saved be in my bank a/c than the tax man's!

Have you considered keeping your windscreen bottle at the lowest level ?

For a 14 mile commute, you probably need only 1 litre of water. Mine holds about 6 litres, so that's a 5kg saving right there.

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Have you considered keeping your windscreen bottle at the lowest level ?

For a 14 mile commute, you probably need only 1 litre of water. Mine holds about 6 litres, so that's a 5kg saving right there.

I'm just picking the low hanging fruit at this point - can't be bothered to refill the water bottle every few days.

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Have you considered keeping your windscreen bottle at the lowest level ?

For a 14 mile commute, you probably need only 1 litre of water. Mine holds about 6 litres, so that's a 5kg saving right there.

THere's normally about a litre between hi and lo levels on the dipstick so don't put as much oil in, ditto with coolant, brake fliud, PAS fluid. Save a couple more kilos like that. Go on a diet you fat *******, take out the back seats, sound deadening, air con system, replace the window glass with perspex, stereo plus speakers, drill holes in any non structural steel work (not bodywork) etc.

bloody amatuers.

Edited by daiking
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i) Why do you want to create chaos?

ii) Why do you think there is a "we the people" given for example that the majority of the population talk up property and want prices to keep going up?

iii) What is wrong with car tax, or council tax, or supermarkets? - I am unhappy with a lot of what the tax money gets spent upon but do not have a problem with taxation per se.

My only out-and-out objection is to the BBC Licence Fee and so I don't pay it. They can get stuffed.

creating chaos as in trains/buses unable to cope with volumes of passengers would prove a point that the public transport servies are inadequate and overpriced.

thats my whole point there is no we the people which is why the govt gets away with everything( to many taxes/expenses etc

car tax is an out dated concept which should be abolished and the fuel is taxed enough if the govt want people to use their cars less they should provide some insentive ( ie fuel tax the more you drive the more you pay then pherhaps people would not want to commute hundreds of miles to work and live closer to work cutting congestion and helping the enviroment, council tax a huge percentage of your council tax is paying for their pensions why council tax is for the services they provide not their pensions i have to provide my own pension so why shouldn't they, and supermarkets are not satisfied with making a decent profit they want more and more each year well eventually in the future they will have all the money and nobody will be able to afford anything , the economy is about keeping the cash going round in circles not certain groups hoarding it all as in the end it will grind to a halt

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Given that fuel is currently taxed at over 300% when do you think enough is enough?

I'm proposing that the total tax take would remain the same. Road tax plus fuel tax.

How much would fuel tax have to go up to get rid of the road tax?

Assuming the average car does...

10000 miles per year.

7 miles per litre. (about 30mpg)

£150 road tax

Then the increased cost would be 10 pence per litre.

This is very much on the high side, I've been very generous with the estimates.

Benefits:

one less form to fill out.

one less category of "crime"

fewer government employees

polluter pays.

I really don't care about fuel tax. Given that A. The government has to be paid for and B. the free market incorrectly prices the cost of fuel then we tax payers may as well take advantage by increasing fuel taxes whilst reducing other taxes.

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I'd agree with this, but I had my bike stolen last week. The second since I've been in London.

At this rate it would be cheaper to get a Chauffeur driven Rolls

Paint your name on it. I spray painted my name on my bike. Had three or four stolen in as many years. This latest one that I painted I've had for at least three years. Either that or take your bike seat with you. They prefer to steal one with a seat, so they pick someone elses instead of yours. Why bother to steal a bike that's clearly marked when you can steal one that isn't?

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Nothing to what it IS going to jump to when £/$ crash...............Frankly delighted when they does. All those scum who bought RR/Q7/X5.........."Evo & Scooby"...ST Focus........MERC/BMW.............STUFFED!!!!!!

Just wait till next year when the new road tax laws kick in & they find their "ride" costs them £450 to tax!!!!!

Oh well boys back to the Corsa for you wink.gif

Mike

Those Whom could NEVER afford them without being GIVEN vast sum of MY money!

Mike

I have no idea what you are talking about, I've never taken ANY of YOUR money unless you have bought a large, enterprise software system in the last 10 years or so. In which case, YOU contracted me/my employer to build it. It seems you are just bitter because you can't afford such cars. Unless you had some bad experience with a driver of every single one of the cars you list in your first post, I fail to see a sane reason for your hostility.

I have a Mitsubishi EVO. It's all paid for because, unlike UK housing, I believe ferrari-esque performance for £35kish represents value for money. My car will only take super-unleaded, so i'm already paying 115p per litre. You know how this tax increase will affect me? It's about 0.8p per litre extra in tax. The reason why? My company pays for ALL my fuel, both private and business. I just pay the tax at 40%. Why do they do this? Because I got off my ****, spent 5 years at a red-brick uni, and have worked hard since building my CV.

Furthermore, when the road tax increases to £450, so what? I have to service my car every 4500miles, and thats between £200 and £600 a pop.

Generally I empathise with most of the posters here regardless of background/income/location as we have a common belief that houses are overpriced and they need to come down in price. Some people have hundreds of thousands sat in the bank, some people have nothing, yet both types want housing to be affordable. Your comments regarding cars makes me think that you just don't like anyone having something you might not have, be it a nice house, a nice car, whatever.

That's just sad.

I've got an ST Focus.

....

Let me guess

J reg Rover 214 with different colour doors?

For once you made me laugh for the RIGHT reasons Sibley :)

Houseprices are still too bloody expensive for me to justify buying one though..... :P

£450 a year in tax or 2p fuel duty is NOTHING compared to a £1500+/month mortgage, or even the £900/month rent im paying now.

Edited by Fedup
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Just to add a quick Anecdotal:

I was in the states in the middle of last year with the gf, and we drove from San Francisco to California down the coast road, so about 500miles, stopping off for one or two nights at places along the way. I didn't have a single traffic jam in that entire journey, the first being in Los Angeles (which was still nothing compared to the M25),I didn't see a single speed camera, no ANPR cameras, no CCTV cameras. Driving was a genuinely pleasant journey as I didn't feel I was constantly being watched or fighting with other people to get from A-B.

Whilst we were sat eating in a restaurant in Monteray, an american couple on the table next to us must have heard us talking and started up a conversation with something like "your from England ain't you?". We got chatting and they were telling me how bad it was at the minute with fuel prices there at the moment. I astonished them by telling them how we paid road tax (an alien concept to them), and that our fuel prices were 4-4.5times theirs. They were genuinely shocked, and just assumed that we all earned so much money in "good ole' England" that we can afford it. But no, in fact, as the cost of living is so much higher here, and taxes are higher, we are massively worse off for any white-collar job before we even start paying for things like cars and housing.

I didn't even bother going into the problem with housing we have here because they measure everything by sq/foot and we make a 1 bed room house and then some how cram 3 bedrooms and an en-suite in it, and sell it as such.

Edited by Fedup
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Just to add a quick Anecdotal:

I was in the states in the middle of last year with the gf, and we drove from San Francisco to California down the coast road, so about 500miles, stopping off for one or two nights at places along the way. I didn't have a single traffic jam in that entire journey, the first being in Los Angeles (which was still nothing compared to the M25),I didn't see a single speed camera, no ANPR cameras, no CCTV cameras. Driving was a genuinely pleasant journey as I didn't feel I was constantly being watched or fighting with other people to get from A-B.

Whilst we were sat eating in a restaurant in Monteray, an american couple on the table next to us must have heard us talking and started up a conversation with something like "your from England ain't you?". We got chatting and they were telling me how bad it was at the minute with fuel prices there at the moment. I astonished them by telling them how we paid road tax (an alien concept to them), and that our fuel prices were 4-4.5times theirs. They were genuinely shocked, and just assumed that we all earned so much money in "good ole' England" that we can afford it. But no, in fact, as the cost of living is so much higher here, and taxes are higher, we are massively worse off for any white-collar job before we even start paying for things like cars and housing.

I didn't even bother going into the problem with housing we have here because they measure everything by sq/foot and we make a 1 bed room house and then some how cram 3 bedrooms and an en-suite in it, and sell it as such.

Its about 2.5 times. Stop exaggerating to impress the yanks.

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Just to add a quick Anecdotal:

I was in the states in the middle of last year with the gf, and we drove from San Francisco to California down the coast road, so about 500miles, stopping off for one or two nights at places along the way. I didn't have a single traffic jam in that entire journey, the first being in Los Angeles (which was still nothing compared to the M25),I didn't see a single speed camera, no ANPR cameras, no CCTV cameras. Driving was a genuinely pleasant journey as I didn't feel I was constantly being watched or fighting with other people to get from A-B.

Whilst we were sat eating in a restaurant in Monteray, an american couple on the table next to us must have heard us talking and started up a conversation with something like "your from England ain't you?". We got chatting and they were telling me how bad it was at the minute with fuel prices there at the moment. I astonished them by telling them how we paid road tax (an alien concept to them), and that our fuel prices were 4-4.5times theirs. They were genuinely shocked, and just assumed that we all earned so much money in "good ole' England" that we can afford it. But no, in fact, as the cost of living is so much higher here, and taxes are higher, we are massively worse off for any white-collar job before we even start paying for things like cars and housing.

I didn't even bother going into the problem with housing we have here because they measure everything by sq/foot and we make a 1 bed room house and then some how cram 3 bedrooms and an en-suite in it, and sell it as such.

Its interesting that petrol across the whole of europe is now a similar cost to the UK....

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House prices on the up and this time next year you'll be able to brag your Rover passed it's MOT and park it outside your bedsit. :lol:

Sibbersyou have a thing about HPC posters living in bedsits and have mentioned them several times in your posts today.

Are you "all alone in bedsit land, your only hope?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaIhDLb_NE

:lol:

Edited by HostPaul TAFKA Rover2000
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Its interesting that petrol across the whole of europe is now a similar cost to the UK....

I never used to believe the "BBC is the governments propaganda" machine until today. On the late news on BBC1 they tried to tell us that fuel in France and Germany is now more expensive than in the UK. This is completely untrue. I've just driven across much of mainland Europe (France, Belgium, Holland, Germany) and in not one of those countries is fuel more expensive than in the UK. Neither is it anywhere near as expensive as the BBC has just made out. The most I paid for fuel on that trip was 1.12 Eur (i.e about £1). Not close the the BBC"s figure of £1.16. I'm appalled by this news report.

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Assuming the average car does...

10000 miles per year.

7 miles per litre. (about 30mpg)

£150 road tax

Then the increased cost would be 10 pence per litre.

Ok but given that we pay about 70p/l tax at the moment, and your sums suggest that you are using 1,430 odd liters then it is apparent that we already pay around £1,000 tax for the priviledge - primarily used to either go to work to PAYE or go shopping to VAT...

Once you start messing about with mpgs' and considering VAT + sales taxes on new cars - and the 3 year replacement regime that is often applied then the high end cars that get driven long distances contribute a hell of a lot more than the second hand car used to get to the shops once a week.

I would also really question what your motives are?

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Hang on???

I wanted something a bit special and worked to get it.

That's exactly the type of comment I'd expect from somebody with no get up and go. Somebody who's dreaming house prices will crash so they can leap frog the people who have worked hard to own a home.

Well my old son. It ain't gonna happen.

House prices on the up and this time next year you'll be able to brag your Rover passed it's MOT and park it outside your bedsit. :lol:

Worked hard to buy a home? You mean lied on the mortgage application to get a 100% mortgage to pay for some over priced dump!

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I never used to believe the "BBC is the governments propaganda" machine until today. On the late news on BBC1 they tried to tell us that fuel in France and Germany is now more expensive than in the UK. This is completely untrue. I've just driven across much of mainland Europe (France, Belgium, Holland, Germany) and in not one of those countries is fuel more expensive than in the UK. Neither is it anywhere near as expensive as the BBC has just made out. The most I paid for fuel on that trip was 1.12 Eur (i.e about £1). Not close the the BBC"s figure of £1.16. I'm appalled by this news report.

It is amazing that they get away with such blatent lies.

Fuel is far cheaper across Europe - unless of course you are valuing it in £Sterling but who cares, those who were watching the BBC laast night will all have come into work today and told everyone about how lucky we are to live in the UK where fuel prices are so cheap!?

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Its about 2.5 times. Stop exaggerating to impress the yanks.

And furthermore a straight comparison of the price of the liquid fails to take account of the fact that American cars tend to be a lot less fuel efficient than ours (hence the reason the Detroit big three are in such trouble). 25-30 miles to one of our gallons is pretty much the average for your typical saloon. I suspect that what a typical American commuter spends on petrol as an overall proportion of his income is pretty similar to here.

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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