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It Contractor? Out Of Work? Wages Depressed?

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Article from Computer Weekly

"IT companies are exploiting the intra-company transfer rule more than most - they brought 29,240 non-EU IT workers into the UK in 2008, compared to 14,255 in all other professional service sectors combined."

Yep, that's right our wonderful government are still importing cheap labour hand over fist while more and more of us are ending up out of work. The article above seems to indicate that they are planning on making it even easier for companies to abuse the process. Time we all starting speaking out or the entire IT industry in this country will be run by cheap foreign labour flown over on the cheap while we are all put out of work.

Make yourself heard, sign the petition below:

Petition

Edited to add: Not just IT contractors. Permies are also affected by what's going on.

Edited by wickywackywoo

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Article from Computer Weekly

"IT companies are exploiting the intra-company transfer rule more than most - they brought 29,240 non-EU IT workers into the UK in 2008, compared to 14,255 in all other professional service sectors combined."

Yep, that's right our wonderful government are still importing cheap labour hand over fist while more and more of us are ending up out of work. The article above seems to indicate that they are planning on making it even easier for companies to abuse the process. Time we all starting speaking out or the entire IT industry in this country will be run by cheap foreign labour flown over on the cheap while we are all put out of work.

Make yourself heard, sign the petition below:

Petition

my first career was in IT with a software house in manchester called hoskyns, don,t know if they still exist, i lasted just under 2 years before i came to my senses and saw it for the BORING UNPRODUCTIVE PILE OF S**TE that it is, and that was in the supposed "golden years" circa 1988.

maybe you should all get a proper job, but i doubt that most of you have got a days work in you.

all thats happening is that yours salaries are starting to reflect your WORTH so there is still a good way further down to go :lol:

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Article from Computer Weekly

"IT companies are exploiting the intra-company transfer rule more than most - they brought 29,240 non-EU IT workers into the UK in 2008, compared to 14,255 in all other professional service sectors combined."

Yep, that's right our wonderful government are still importing cheap labour hand over fist while more and more of us are ending up out of work. The article above seems to indicate that they are planning on making it even easier for companies to abuse the process. Time we all starting speaking out or the entire IT industry in this country will be run by cheap foreign labour flown over on the cheap while we are all put out of work.

Make yourself heard, sign the petition below:

Petition

Edited to add: Not just IT contractors. Permies are also affected by what's going on.

It already is unfortunately. It's partly motivated by greed and a need by middle managers (who are failed programmers and technicians ) to humiliate and depress the wages of their more able British colleagues.

Edited by Von Moses

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It's intra-company - these people already are permies. It would be ridiculous to stop it, secondments to foreign countries are a useful part of IT, and I imagine a similar number will be seconded out of the UK.

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It's intra-company - these people already are permies. It would be ridiculous to stop it, secondments to foreign countries are a useful part of IT, and I imagine a similar number will be seconded out of the UK.

Absolute rubbish.

Why would it be ridiculous to stop such blatant abuse. At what point does it become unacceptable, when every single native IT worker is on the dole and replaced by an Indian?

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No ones going to sign your stupid petition. They make no difference. At all. Incidentaly when I phoned up for a IT Contract job on Monday, I asked how many CV's did they receive for it and the Agent said over 300, in the first hour! Even in the depths of the dot com crash I NEVER remember so many people chasing one job. I remember then, thinking that "over 3 dozen" sounded like a lot. The IT job market for UK workers in the UK is absolutely shattered for the next 12-24 months and it will never recover to the dizzy heights of the late 1990's, it's on a long-term downward spiral. What a con! When we were all told to do Computer Science at University because of the skills shortage.

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It's intra-company - these people already are permies. It would be ridiculous to stop it, secondments to foreign countries are a useful part of IT, and I imagine a similar number will be seconded out of the UK.

The article didn't use the word imagine.

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A company I worked for in 2001, a telecomms startup employed Wipro to do the back office integration. A whole floor of the office building was dedicated to them and every single employee was flown in from India. That's not intra-company. 50 Indian software engineers were being housed, fed and maintained in the UK while 50 experienced British programmers probably languished on the dole.

Edited by Von Moses

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my first career was in IT with a software house in manchester called hoskyns, don,t know if they still exist, i lasted just under 2 years before i came to my senses and saw it for the BORING UNPRODUCTIVE PILE OF S**TE that it is, and that was in the supposed "golden years" circa 1988.

maybe you should all get a proper job, but i doubt that most of you have got a days work in you.

all thats happening is that yours salaries are starting to reflect your WORTH so there is still a good way further down to go :lol:

Idiot. When did you last give your client 5Million pounds profit for one months work?

I did.

Try doing that plastering walls.

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It already is unfortunately. It's partly motivated by greed and a need by middle managers (who are failed programmers and technicians ) to humiliate and depress the wages of their more able British colleagues.

here is my 2 cents worth and i am going to mention the company as i dont give a fluck anymore!

I worked as an IT contractor via Manpower for Hewlett Packard CDS (a so called non profit org of HP). I was earning 32k a year as a contractor - every 3 months our contracts came up for renew. After 2 years HP told us they had a 52 week rule on contractors (although clearly employing us for 2 years, they broke there own 52 week rule) i asked for a copy of the rule, they could not produce it, hence why i think they are full of shite! And also lied to us!!!

They gave us a take it or leave it deal - the new deal was to work directly for them but for 19K - this made it unafordable for me to travel 84 miles a day and have therfore have asked them to end my contract end of September - most bizzare thing of all is the fact they are hiring another contractor under there 52 week rule to replace me whom will be paid 32k

Please Please avoid buying HP products as they continue to screw what remains of there UK workforce!

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No ones going to sign your stupid petition. They make no difference. At all. Incidentaly when I phoned up for a IT Contract job on Monday, I asked how many CV's did they receive for it and the Agent said over 300, in the first hour! Even in the depths of the dot com crash I NEVER remember so many people chasing one job. I remember then, thinking that "over 3 dozen" sounded like a lot. The IT job market for UK workers in the UK is absolutely shattered for the next 12-24 months and it will never recover to the dizzy heights of the late 1990's, it's on a long-term downward spiral. What a con! When we were all told to do Computer Science at University because of the skills shortage.

It's not my petition, I've simply posted it here because there are a lot of IT contractors on this board, many of whom I have no doubt will take two minutes to sign the petition. Don't be so bl00dy apathetic or for sure nothing will ever change.

As for the dizzy heights of the 90's, I don't expect a return to being offered four contracts in one day, I'd just like to be able to stay in regular reasonably paid work. How anybody can think it's right for our retard Government to be bringing in 30,000 IT workers a year in a recession is beyond me. Anybody that thinks it's fine is retarded.

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No ones going to sign your stupid petition. They make no difference. At all. Incidentaly when I phoned up for a IT Contract job on Monday, I asked how many CV's did they receive for it and the Agent said over 300, in the first hour! Even in the depths of the dot com crash I NEVER remember so many people chasing one job. I remember then, thinking that "over 3 dozen" sounded like a lot. The IT job market for UK workers in the UK is absolutely shattered for the next 12-24 months and it will never recover to the dizzy heights of the late 1990's, it's on a long-term downward spiral. What a con! When we were all told to do Computer Science at University because of the skills shortage.

If you are a contractor then you presumably consider yourself to be self-employed. Why do you send your CV to an agent? Why don't you find your own work?

p-o-p

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only a full blown computer geek could come up with this retort.

you don,t have a girlfriend do you? :lol:

It seemed (and still does) the most appropriate reply to a truly retarded comment.

Look, I'm not interested in all the usual politically correct retarded peoples views. I've learnt from experience there's no point trying to reason with people who only have once braincell. I've posted this link for people WHO DO THINK WHAT'S GOING ON IS OUTRAGEOUS AND WISH TO ADD THEIR NAME TO THE PETITION.

If you don't like the petition because you're a foreigner, stupid or are just jealous of people who earn more than you - just shutup and let other people sign the petition if they want to.

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here is my 2 cents worth and i am going to mention the company as i dont give a fluck anymore!

I worked as an IT contractor via Manpower for Hewlett Packard CDS (a so called non profit org of HP). I was earning 32k a year as a contractor - every 3 months our contracts came up for renew. After 2 years HP told us they had a 52 week rule on contractors (although clearly employing us for 2 years, they broke there own 52 week rule) i asked for a copy of the rule, they could not produce it, hence why i think they are full of shite! And also lied to us!!!

They gave us a take it or leave it deal - the new deal was to work directly for them but for 19K - this made it unafordable for me to travel 84 miles a day and have therfore have asked them to end my contract end of September - most bizzare thing of all is the fact they are hiring another contractor under there 52 week rule to replace me whom will be paid 32k

Please Please avoid buying HP products as they continue to screw what remains of there UK workforce!

That sucks big time. I don't trust any corporations after having experienced more than enough for one lifetime. The best thing people, particularly developers, can do is to stay on the dole and undercut Indian companies just to keep the skills up to date. If the government is willing to pay your mortgage and a subsistence allowance, you may as well use the advantage. I would be willing, if I was in that position, to work for free until something came along that paid decent money.

Edited by Von Moses

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A company I worked for in 2001, a telecomms startup employed Wipro to do the back office integration. A whole floor of the office building was dedicated to them and every single employee was flown in from India. That's not intra-company. 50 Indian software engineers were being housed, fed and maintained in the UK while 50 experienced British programmers probably languished on the dole.

I've seen firsthand exactly that at many bluechips over the last decade. It's become and epidemic and is one huge p1ss take.

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If you are a contractor then you presumably consider yourself to be self-employed. Why do you send your CV to an agent? Why don't you find your own work?

p-o-p

What's wrong with using people to find you work and paying them a cut? In what way does that not make you self-employed?

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I've seen firsthand exactly that at many bluechips over the last decade. It's become and epidemic and is one huge p1ss take.

And is so typical of the "black box" approach that British management have. They thought they could isolate the business into neat little units with well defined interfaces to one another. Unfortunately, the best software engineers in the world sometimes have trouble putting that concept into practice in software systems.

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No ones going to sign your stupid petition. They make no difference. At all. Incidentaly when I phoned up for a IT Contract job on Monday, I asked how many CV's did they receive for it and the Agent said over 300, in the first hour! Even in the depths of the dot com crash I NEVER remember so many people chasing one job. I remember then, thinking that "over 3 dozen" sounded like a lot. The IT job market for UK workers in the UK is absolutely shattered for the next 12-24 months and it will never recover to the dizzy heights of the late 1990's, it's on a long-term downward spiral. What a con! When we were all told to do Computer Science at University because of the skills shortage.

Got an extra couple of signatures in half an hour so somebodies obviously signing it :rolleyes:

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If you are a contractor then you presumably consider yourself to be self-employed. Why do you send your CV to an agent? Why don't you find your own work?

p-o-p

A lot of companies, esp the big PLCs and multinationals will only employ contractors via their approved agencies. That's why.

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What's wrong with using people to find you work and paying them a cut? In what way does that not make you self-employed?

Firstly, it is against the law to charge a fee to find somebody work. However, you would probably contend that you are not paying to be found work, rather that you are paying an agent to find you business.

I would respond that you are not self-employed because you do not determine what you do, nor do you have the right of substitution but I don't want to appear to give any succour to Mr Dundee.

p-o-p

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And is so typical of the "black box" approach that British management have. They thought they could isolate the business into neat little units with well defined interfaces to one another. Unfortunately, the best software engineers in the world sometimes have trouble putting that concept into practice in software systems.

Agreed. Offshoring I can cope with because it often doesn't work for the reasons you mention. Trying to replace the entire native IT workforce with flown in cheap replacements is another issue entirely.

Very few of the large bluechips train graduates anymore. Why would they bother?

If the pound slumps at some stage (which I expect it to), then Indians will no longer be cheap anymore and it will be bonanza time for us native contractors. British industry will be stuffed though as they haven't been training people for a decade. Hope they reap what they've sown eventually.

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