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69% Want Out Of Afgan (people Are Sick Of War War War!)

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We never went in to "win". It's not presence but practise that needs changing, get off the ground, get in the air, use snatch squads for the dirty work.

We went in to fight a fight and I personally agree very strongly with that fight. I wanted us to get in there in 2000 but it didn't even register with Bliar & his 'staff' at the time & we saw what happened to this very fine man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

If I wasn't 38 I'd join up.

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We never went in to "win". It's not presence but practise that needs changing, get off the ground, get in the air, use snatch squads for the dirty work.

We went in to fight a fight and I personally agree very strongly with that fight. I wanted us to get in there in 2000 but it didn't even register with Bliar & his 'staff' at the time & we saw what happened to this very fine man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

If I wasn't 38 I'd join up.

As ex forces (RAF Regiment), I don't think fighting for the air will work, you have to take and hold every inch.

We should get the hell out now, there is no mission, just mission creep.

Our only hope is to do a deal with the Taliban, arm and support them to fight Al qaeda for us.

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As ex forces (RAF Regiment), I don't think fighting for the air will work, you have to take and hold every inch.

We should get the hell out now, there is no mission, just mission creep.

Our only hope is to do a deal with the Taliban, arm and support them to fight Al qaeda for us.

That's not what I wanted to hear from a fella who probably knows what he's talking about :(

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Our only hope is to do a deal with the Taliban, arm and support them to fight Al qaeda for us.

Isn't that where we went wrong in the first place. Arming the Mujahedin to fight Russians?

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That's not what I wanted to hear from a fella who probably knows what he's talking about :(

Agree with you, if I was younger, I would be out there too, I know odd isn't it?

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I'm sick of it. Sick of hearing the phoney concern in the voice of the ITV / BBC newsreaders each night as they tell us about another 3 soldiers who have died. They don’t care. I don’t really care. In fact, no one apart from their nearest and dearest REALLY cares. We are at war. Soldiers will die. I don’t agree with the war (its costing me money), but that’s what they signed up for. Take it up with the politicians if you don’t like it. They sent the poor buggers over there.

Has anyone else watched Rambo recently and noticed the scene where he warns the "evil" Russians about the Afghan freedom fighters resilience and determination? Pure Hollywood spin that worked at the time but casts an uncomfortable truth over today’s events. Bring our troops back NOW. They will never win in that hell hole.

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As ex forces (RAF Regiment), I don't think fighting for the air will work, you have to take and hold every inch.

We should get the hell out now, there is no mission, just mission creep.

Aye. Galula wrote the classic text way back when (based on his experiences in Algeria, as I recall) and, having read it myself whilst on a staff course as Shrivenham, it's clear how to "win" in Afghanistan. However, it involves a significant increase in cost and casualties and a commitment to hang around for at least a decade and to be honest, ideally for a generation or so. Everyone knows it but it's politically unacceptable to say out loud.

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Agree with you, if I was younger, I would be out there too, I know odd isn't it?

Well I am younger, I am in a position to be sent there, and I'm hoping I won't be.

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As ex forces (RAF Regiment), I don't think fighting for the air will work, you have to take and hold every inch.

We should get the hell out now, there is no mission, just mission creep.

Our only hope is to do a deal with the Taliban, arm and support them to fight Al qaeda for us.

That's not what I wanted to hear from a fella who probably knows what he's talking about :(

I don't understand what is wrong with that. The Taliban never raised a finger to us or threatened to. Don't give me the crap about wanting to uphold womens rights etc these are not issues that will be sorted out by bombing a place, we have killed more women than the Taliban i would guess with fair certainty.

This was Mad Bush Jr's war and if it wasn't for him and puppy dog Blair we'd never be there so now that both are gone i don't see why we should stay. Unless you follow the logic that we'll stay the course to honour those who have already died and in doing so lots more will die.

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We never went in to "win". It's not presence but practise that needs changing, get off the ground, get in the air, use snatch squads for the dirty work.

We went in to fight a fight and I personally agree very strongly with that fight. I wanted us to get in there in 2000 but it didn't even register with Bliar & his 'staff' at the time & we saw what happened to this very fine man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

If I wasn't 38 I'd join up.

You are no better than a bullying barsteward.

If an individual kills people that's murder. If a state does it, that's fine. The older I get, the less able I am to comprehend the moral difference between the two.

Maybe you should go as a NGO volunteer instead of hiding behind your age.

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Isn't that where we went wrong in the first place. Arming the Mujahedin to fight Russians?

I remember being taught about Afghanistan when I was a kid...in the 1960s.

i was really impressed with what the teacher said.

Afghans are a tribal nation with constant inter tribe fueds. they have fought each other for hundreds of years.

they treasured the latest rifle so they could kill the neighbour from further away.

he also said many foreigners had gone in to sort it out, but all that did was unite the tribes against a common enemy.

nothing appears to have changed...their common purpose and the foreigners stupidity.

We should be out..NOW. Its NOT our country.

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Afghanistan is a landlocked and mountainous country in South-Central Asia, with plains in the north and southwest. The highest point is Nowshak, at 7,485 m (24,557 ft) above sea level. The climate varies by region and tends to change quite rapidly. Large parts of the country are dry, and fresh water supplies are limited. The endorheic Sistan Basin is one of the driest regions in the world.[26] Afghanistan has a continental climate with very harsh winters in the central highlands, the glacierized northeast (around Nuristan) and the Wakhan Corridor, where the average temperature in January is below -15°C, and hot summers in the low-lying areas of Sistan Basin of the southwest, the Jalalabad basin of the east, and the Turkistan plains along the Amu River of the north, where temperature averages over 35°C in July. The country is frequently subject to minor earthquakes, mainly in the northeast of Hindu Kush mountain areas. Some 125 villages were damaged and 4000 people killed by the May 30, 1998 earthquake.

At 249,984 sq mi (647,500 km²), Afghanistan is the world's 41st-largest country (after Burma).

Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan border Afghanistan to the north, Iran to the west, Pakistan to the south and the People's Republic of China to the east.

The country's natural resources include gold, silver, copper, zinc, and iron ore in the Southeast; precious and semi-precious stones (such as lapis, emerald, and azure) in the Northeast; and potentially significant petroleum and natural gas reserves in the North. The country also has uranium, coal, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, and salt.[1][27][28][29] However, these significant mineral and energy resources remain largely untapped, due to the effects of the Soviet invasion and the subsequent civil war. Plans are underway to begin extracting them in the near future.[30][31]

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We went to afghanistan to "smoke out Osama Bin Laden" after 911

Nobody talks about this anymore.

I always thought it amazing how a guy in a cave '000's of miles away, along with 19 others armed with box cutters, managed to ochestrate the worlds most infamous 'terrorist' attack against the worlds largest and most technically advanced military nation.

A nation that never saw it coming but 4 hrs after the attacks were able to say who did it, why he did it and were he was......

But they've never found 'him'....... :unsure:

The real reason we are over there is shown in this picture.

afghan_opium0430.jpg

guarding the opium fields.

Yup, global drugs trade, run by the CIA and worth more than $500bn a year

BF

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I remember being taught about Afghanistan when I was a kid...in the 1960s.

i was really impressed with what the teacher said.

Afghans are a tribal nation with constant inter tribe fueds. they have fought each other for hundreds of years.

they treasured the latest rifle so they could kill the neighbour from further away.

he also said many foreigners had gone in to sort it out, but all that did was unite the tribes against a common enemy.

nothing appears to have changed...their common purpose and the foreigners stupidity.

We should be out..NOW. Its NOT our country.

Oil and opium is the only reason the west is involved in this, I dont see us jumping all over mugabe and his henchmen.

Of course they must know where Bin Ladan is, a hit and run mission would sort it all out, if they managed to get saddam with his resourses they can find the other one.

Like many countries life is considered very cheap in the UK.

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Guest Barebear
I always thought it amazing how a guy in a cave '000's of miles away, along with 19 others armed with box cutters, managed to ochestrate the worlds most infamous 'terrorist' attack against the worlds largest and most technically advanced military nation.

A nation that never saw it coming but 4 hrs after the attacks were able to say who did it, why he did it and were he was......

But they've never found 'him'....... :unsure:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeh that seems strange to me too. I've often wondered if Bin Laden as a person actually exists because before 911 I had never heard of him then suddenly he's the leader of Al quaeda , the worlds most dangerous terrorist etc etc and he's on every news bullitin.

No one has ever said what he wants or what the motivation for 911 was. Conspiracy theorist I aint but this is akin to some random bloke starting to chop down trees, no one knows why, there are no demands, he just does it, then we spend billions trying to find him only knowing he has a beard and he lives in Scotland.

What I do see is Iraq westernised and therefore unable to interfere in oil stuff, Afghanistan invaded to find this Bin Laden but he aint still gonna be there if he's got any sense, but still we're there, Why ?

Who cares what the Taliban do in their own country ? We haven't invaded Darfur or plenty other places where they're not very nice to people.

BF

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It's so very simple. Don't go trying to rationalize empire building with argument involving statistics and conjecture.

Think of it like the game Risk.

If we aren't occupying Afghanistan, it will be China, or Russia who will.

Currently the US/UK syndicate are king of the hill there, but that will be a short lived experiment. It's far too expensive to wage modern warfare against a medieval class of insurgents, in one of the most diverse and difficult geographies, and with the warriors hell bent on the death and a complete rout of the occupying armies. All that a strong belief in a glorious afterlife for the Afghani patriots and an unlimited supply of freebee high-tech weapons from all the proxy nations.

We cannot win, and our mandate never was to 'win'. We are there to destabilize the region, keep the drugs flowing, and to put a military outpost on China's front step.

I openly laugh when they (MSM) qualify their presence there as 'introducing democracy'.

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Guest Barebear

God think how many legitimate people would be unemployed if there were no drugs.

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I'm sick of it. Sick of hearing the phoney concern in the voice of the ITV / BBC newsreaders each night as they tell us about another 3 soldiers who have died. They don’t care. I don’t really care. In fact, no one apart from their nearest and dearest REALLY cares. We are at war. Soldiers will die. I don’t agree with the war (its costing me money), but that’s what they signed up for. Take it up with the politicians if you don’t like it. They sent the poor buggers over there.

Has anyone else watched Rambo recently and noticed the scene where he warns the "evil" Russians about the Afghan freedom fighters resilience and determination? Pure Hollywood spin that worked at the time but casts an uncomfortable truth over today’s events. Bring our troops back NOW. They will never win in that hell hole.

Yes, you see in the eighties, the Taleban were OK, much as was Saddam, as they were fighting our 'real' enemies of the day - you see murerous regimes are fine with us in the west until they step out of line or are of no use to use anymore (in terms of agreeing to pipelines, fighting countries we don't like, trade deals etc.) That was Saddam's problem of course - got a bit too big for his boots and went and invaded Kuwait..

In another twenty years time I'm sure we'll be best buds again supplying these 'rogue nations' with weapons and support to fight whoever our enemy of the day is - Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia anyone?

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