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Hip to be bear

Time To Buy A Pub?

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I started a thread on this last week, and went to view the property in question on Thursday. It is not the one for us for various reasons, but given that this has probably dropped 50% from peak (It is a Punch Taverns disposal and they need to offload a pile of debt), it is an interesting proposition to say the least.

Would / Could you run a pub? OR

Get change of use to residential and you have a sizeable 7 bedroom property for a song. OR

Profitable development potential?

Here is the property in question....St Boniface Arms

http://www.gullyhoward.com/propertylist.asp?cat=52

Here is a link to the thread I started last week.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=122776

Edited by Hip to be bear

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I am bumping this because if YOU wanted to YOU could buy this 7 BEDROOM property for the price of a terraced house.

No interest?

There are probably others in the area you want to buy in.

Change of use and refurb as required. Live in it or sell it for a big profit.

You could even let it out :ph34r:

You could rent it out as a pub with a return of around 10%

Sorry my mistake...I thought this was a website for people who wanted to buy affordable houses. ;)

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You gave it 45 mins.

It's Sat afternoon, there's football and the 5th Ashes test on. People have lives. What do you think?

(Personally, I've logged on with 5 live Extra on in the background for the cricket.)

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You gave it 45 mins.

It's Sat afternoon, there's football and the 5th Ashes test on. People have lives. What do you think?

(Personally, I've logged on with 5 live Extra on in the background for the cricket.)

As a bloke I shouldn't be able to multitask, but I can listen to the cricket, check out HPC and pick my nose and answer the phone for my business too! ;)

Valid point though...lots of other stuff going on... not many on the site. MAybe they are all out snapping up cheap pubs! :ph34r:

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maybe its cos you didnt say where abouts it is. London or no? City, town or village.

7 beds? Close to students?

Its on the Isle of Wight. See the link to the agent in the OP. For the same money you could get a nice 3 bed terraced house in the town. There is a floor plan in the pdf details. It does need lots of work whether as a pub or converting.

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Erm. It`s in Ventnor on the Isle of Wight. Horrid place unless you're a child under 12, an OAP or you fancy spending your life growing/selling/taking drugs and knocking out children.

Edit: Referring to pub in the OP.

Edited by narrowescape

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Erm. It`s in Ventnor on the Isle of Wight. Horrid place unless you're a child under 12, an OAP or you fancy spending your life growing/selling/taking drugs and knocking out children.

Edit: Referring to pub in the OP.

But I'm moving there from Weymouth......so it's a big step up! ;)

Just think how much weed you could grow in such a large property!

When were you last in Ventnor? I'm not saying its perfect but it is going in the right direction and is lot less spoilt than much of the British seaside. Great place to bring up little kids (one is one, number two is on the way).

If you were of the TFH persuasion it would be a fantastic place to be.

If we are in for a V or VW shaped recession / depression, I would rather be there than most of the rest of the UK.

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What are the odds of closing it and turning it into pure residential?

Honestly I don't know but with 52 pubs closing a week at the moment, I think that there will be many ex pubs being redeveloped over the coming years.

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But I'm moving there from Weymouth......so it's a big step up! ;)

Just think how much weed you could grow in such a large property!

When were you last in Ventnor? I'm not saying its perfect but it is going in the right direction and is lot less spoilt than much of the British seaside. Great place to bring up little kids (one is one, number two is on the way).

If you were of the TFH persuasion it would be a fantastic place to be.

If we are in for a V or VW shaped recession / depression, I would rather be there than most of the rest of the UK.

I don't know Weymouth so can't really comment whether it's a step up or down..

I was there from 1974-ish to 1988 (grew up there). The way of life may well have changed since then but I briefly visited about 5 years ago and it looked on the surface to be pretty much the same.

If you have a good source of income and a young family it might not be so bad, but don't forget - apart from the summer the whole island pretty much shuts down so if you decide to run the pub you'll be relying on the dole money of the local pissheads (of which there are admittedly many) to keep you going.

What little employment remains is likely to be decimated in a serious recession so unless you have a good source of income, or are able to grow enough weed to swap for food ;) this is something to bear in mind.

Another important thing to bear in mind is the stability of the land, especially near the pub. If you look on a map you'll find North and South street nearby. As I recall, even back in the 80s you couldn't get a mortgage on houses in South st (and possibly North St) because it was crumbling away a bit. Work associated with the "marina" (which looked far smaller than the plans I remember seeing before they built it) may have helped here but a lot of the south coast of the Isle of Wight is wearing away. A couple of miles from Ventnor is "The Landslip". Says it all really.

Oh and one other thing - unless you get cable or Sky, TV reception is (or was c1980s) crap thanks to all the surrounding hills. I'd be surprised if Freeview works at all.

I have to agree that it is good for kids (in the summer at least) but my own experience was that there's not that much for teenagers to do.

If you're really keen, maybe spend some time there out of season - it'll give you a better idea of what it's like most of the time.

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> Disposal on behalf of Punch Taverns and priced to sell swiftly

> Historically enjoying strong wet-led trade with great potential to develop a food offer

> 4 potential letting bedrooms plus 3 bedroom owner's suite

> Offers in the region of £195,000 are invited for the benefit of the premises plus V.A.T.

Since when did VAT apply to commercial property purchases?

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I don't know Weymouth so can't really comment whether it's a step up or down..

I was there from 1974-ish to 1988 (grew up there). The way of life may well have changed since then but I briefly visited about 5 years ago and it looked on the surface to be pretty much the same.

If you have a good source of income and a young family it might not be so bad, but don't forget - apart from the summer the whole island pretty much shuts down so if you decide to run the pub you'll be relying on the dole money of the local pissheads (of which there are admittedly many) to keep you going.

What little employment remains is likely to be decimated in a serious recession so unless you have a good source of income, or are able to grow enough weed to swap for food ;) this is something to bear in mind.

Another important thing to bear in mind is the stability of the land, especially near the pub. If you look on a map you'll find North and South street nearby. As I recall, even back in the 80s you couldn't get a mortgage on houses in South st (and possibly North St) because it was crumbling away a bit. Work associated with the "marina" (which looked far smaller than the plans I remember seeing before they built it) may have helped here but a lot of the south coast of the Isle of Wight is wearing away. A couple of miles from Ventnor is "The Landslip". Says it all really.

Oh and one other thing - unless you get cable or Sky, TV reception is (or was c1980s) crap thanks to all the surrounding hills. I'd be surprised if Freeview works at all.

I have to agree that it is good for kids (in the summer at least) but my own experience was that there's not that much for teenagers to do.

If you're really keen, maybe spend some time there out of season - it'll give you a better idea of what it's like most of the time.

My wifes family come from there (St Lawrence) so I know it fairly well. We are about to rent a cottage in Niton for the next 12 months plus (3 bed detached cottage for £650pcm). Our longer term plans would be to have a freehold gastro pub, probably in Hampshire (where I come from). The main reason that we are looking at pubs now is that there are plenty of "distressed sales", even from the big pubcos.

Hospitality doesn't work well with enjoying family life with young kids, (hence selling our restaurant in Weymouth) and also the reason for the move to be near to my mother in law.

We wouldn't be looking at a pub but for the fact that they are VERY cheap at the moment. (£200k for a property with 7 bedrooms + change of use if you can get it.

If we were to go for an island pub, we would want to take a failing traditional boozer and do a decent food operation in it. It would need decent parking which the pub in the OP does not have.

The island demographic with lot of relatively wealthy retirees means that good food pubs can do well. The retirees will also be less effected by the recession.

Ideally I would love to find the right failing pub at a great price. Buy it and turn it round introducing the food operation. Get it established and then sell the business on a new lease (free of tie of course which is great for the tenant).

You should be able to get a rent of £20-25k rent p/a. A much better rate of return than BTL.

I would love to buy a house there instead, but I refuse to at current prices. Hence the interest in the pub given that it HAS fallen 50% 0ff peak.

Funny you should mention South St...we looked at buying a house there a few years ago. Stunning sea views from the houses on the south side of the road.

Ventnor does seem to be on the up.....2 new cafe delis. Michelin starred restaurant in a new boutique hotel etc. Will it survive the recession? Probably as well as anywhere.

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My wifes family come from there (St Lawrence) so I know it fairly well. We are about to rent a cottage in Niton for the next 12 months plus (3 bed detached cottage for £650pcm). Our longer term plans would be to have a freehold gastro pub, probably in Hampshire (where I come from). The main reason that we are looking at pubs now is that there are plenty of "distressed sales", even from the big pubcos.

Hospitality doesn't work well with enjoying family life with young kids, (hence selling our restaurant in Weymouth) and also the reason for the move to be near to my mother in law.

We wouldn't be looking at a pub but for the fact that they are VERY cheap at the moment. (£200k for a property with 7 bedrooms + change of use if you can get it.

If we were to go for an island pub, we would want to take a failing traditional boozer and do a decent food operation in it. It would need decent parking which the pub in the OP does not have.

The island demographic with lot of relatively wealthy retirees means that good food pubs can do well. The retirees will also be less effected by the recession.

Ideally I would love to find the right failing pub at a great price. Buy it and turn it round introducing the food operation. Get it established and then sell the business on a new lease (free of tie of course which is great for the tenant).

You should be able to get a rent of £20-25k rent p/a. A much better rate of return than BTL.

I would love to buy a house there instead, but I refuse to at current prices. Hence the interest in the pub given that it HAS fallen 50% 0ff peak.

Funny you should mention South St...we looked at buying a house there a few years ago. Stunning sea views from the houses on the south side of the road.

Ventnor does seem to be on the up.....2 new cafe delis. Michelin starred restaurant in a new boutique hotel etc. Will it survive the recession? Probably as well as anywhere.

From what you say it would seem that things have moved on for Ventnor since I was last there. Good thing in my opinion.

If you're comfortable with the current state of play then go for it. The only thing I would double check is the state of the land nearby - might be part of the reason it's so cheap.

Good luck whatever you decide.

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Since when did VAT apply to commercial property purchases?

"option to tax"?

the current owner has opted in to the VAT regime for their commercial property - they are allowed to recover VAT on repairs etc but have to charge it on rental income & the disposal.

nice - until they try and sell it to an unregistered third party... :lol:

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From what you say it would seem that things have moved on for Ventnor since I was last there. Good thing in my opinion.

If you're comfortable with the current state of play then go for it. The only thing I would double check is the state of the land nearby - might be part of the reason it's so cheap.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Very valid point re the land / insurance / finance etc. Its a perrenial problem with all of PO 38 to be honest.

One of the reasons I like Ventnor is that it seemed to go into hibernation in the 60s with tha advent of package holidays and the closure of the railway. As a result as Sandown and Shanklin got chavved up, Ventnor just got tatty. Now it is getting less tatty, but it doesn't have the shell suit of chavdom from which it can never escape. Countryside is stunning too.

If we could afford a pub on the mainland that would probably be my favourite in the future though.

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"option to tax"?

the current owner has opted in to the VAT regime for their commercial property - they are allowed to recover VAT on repairs etc but have to charge it on rental income & the disposal.

nice - until they try and sell it to an unregistered third party... :lol:

So an unregistered third party with no facility to claim it back would have to pay an additional £15,000 for every £100,000 @15% on the agreed sale price?

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Punch Taverns are scum, they care not a jot about pubs or people, the exist only to screw breweries and licensees while contributing nothing of value. they are a highly leveraged property speculation which has gone wrong. ha ha

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So an unregistered third party with no facility to claim it back would have to pay an additional £15,000 for every £100,000 @15% on the agreed sale price?

If you are buying a pub as a going concern, you will be turning over over the VAT threshold and will therefore be able to claim back the VAT.

If you were buying as an individual and not registered for VAT, it would not be too difficult to set up a company to buy it, register for VAT. Pay it, claim it back and then close the company.

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