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gruffydd

Do Schools Kill Creativity?

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Do schools kill creativity? No.

An analogy. Very few people can just pick up a saxophone and play great music. But if they 'go to school', learn the necessary techniques and pay their dues they have gained what's necessary to be extremely creative. Whether they are creative is down to them.

Without schooling a huge amount of creativity would never see the light of day.

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Do schools kill creativity? No.

An analogy. Very few people can just pick up a saxophone and play great music. But if they 'go to school', learn the necessary techniques and pay their dues they have gained what's necessary to be extremely creative. Whether they are creative is down to them.

Without schooling a huge amount of creativity would never see the light of day.

No one can.

They have to learn to play the instrument.

The issue is education policies, watch the video.

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Guest AuntJess

Depends how you define creativity. One man's creativity is another man's anarchy.

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No. When I was 5 my parents promised us a picnic but it was raining on the day, so we went to coniferous forestry commission woodland where it is dry under the trees.

On Monday I had to write about what I did on the weekend (not very creative, I just said i'd been for a picnic)

But my teacher said it was raining on the weekend, not to tell lies and to go and write what I really did

So I had to use my creative skills to make up something!!

(I'm not scarred by the episode...honestly :ph34r:)

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Good video. Excellent presenter.

I now know where it all went wrong for me, I should have been a ballet dancer. :lol:

H

Actually, the 'being creative' is so important: innovation, problem solving, challenging the way things are.

He made a good point about children being initially 'without fear' and then becoming fearful, thus impairing the desire to take chances.

Fear is a big factor in how we are governed, and how we are browbeat into conformity. It's not good. It won't help in clearing up the mess we are in.

Now repeat after me: I am an individual, I have my own thoughts and ideas...

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Guest absolutezero
Now repeat after me: I am an individual, I have my own thoughts and ideas...

You are an individual. Just like everyone else...

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What sparks greater creativity - being taught how to really play Sax by a former session musician, or carefully and in a contrived manner being taught to pass GCSE music at a minum D level according the the national curriculum.

That was how I understood the question.

It's not a new idea either. See Pirzig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (1974).

http://arf.math.metu.edu.tr/~dpierce/cours.../no-grades.html

It is odd that 'the church' is held up as educational excellence.

The ancient Greeks had rudimentary steam engines and even a 'computer' (antikythera mechanism). Once monotheism took hold any thought of questioning the system was purged then civilisation regressed and stagnated for over a millenia.

You can't have innovative mindless drones, you have to choose one or the other...

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What sparks greater creativity - being taught how to really play Sax by a former session musician, or carefully and in a contrived manner being taught to pass GCSE music at a minum D level according the the national curriculum.

That was how I understood the question.

It's not a new idea either. See Pirzig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (1974).

http://arf.math.metu.edu.tr/~dpierce/cours.../no-grades.html

Thank you. FOr me this certainly rings true. When I did my MSc it was clear that those who had gone straight from their BSc did not have there hearts in it, those who had been working in the industry like me had a little more grit between their teeth.

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'The Church' is a symbolic term Pirsig uses quite often around the topic of education. Might not come across when taken out of context like that.

It's a criticism of those that think the important thing in Education is the establishment, the buildings (The Church) when what really matters is the process of learning itself. Bit like people who go to church and build cathedrals but kill grannies in their spare time.

The thinking behind this piece was heavilt influenced by the greek philosophy so you're pretty much on track.

allegory face kipper slap d'oh!

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If you spend time with kids of all ages (in a school setting) it's evident that it would take a lot more than the NC to kill creativity!

In fact I reckon that there's a bit too much emphasis on ideas and self expression than on nuts and bolts rigour - as an earlier poster noted that even in learning an instrument there has to be an element of 'schooling'

I'd recommend anyone to go and spend some time in a school, it's a genuinely uplifting experience....

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The vast majority of the time yes, the odd things could be considered beneficial but they are to few and far between. Its mostly just conformity, indoctrination and suppression of free thought, which are all anti-creative.

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The vast majority of the time yes, the odd things could be considered beneficial but they are to few and far between. Its mostly just conformity, indoctrination and suppression of free thought, which are all anti-creative.

And how much time have you spent in schools recently?

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Good video. Excellent presenter.

I now know where it all went wrong for me, I should have been a ballet dancer. :lol:

H

Actually, the 'being creative' is so important: innovation, problem solving, challenging the way things are.

He made a good point about children being initially 'without fear' and then becoming fearful, thus impairing the desire to take chances.

Fear is a big factor in how we are governed, and how we are browbeat into conformity. It's not good. It won't help in clearing up the mess we are in.

Now repeat after me: I am an individual, I have my own thoughts and ideas...

For this the Freudians and your Orwellian Occult masters will send you to the naughty stair!

(Note the occult ref: to Bible - "stairway to heaven/Jacobs ladder"!)

Kills Kids 'Kreativity' - at an early stage!

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For this the Freudians and your Orwellian Occult masters will send you to the naughty stair!

(Note the occult ref: to Bible - "stairway to heaven/Jacobs ladder"!)

Kills Kids 'Kreativity' - at an early stage!

That wasn't a very good one, was it Erranta?

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That wasn't a very good one, was it Erranta?

Ask Pike - Corporal Jones!

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And how much time have you spent in schools recently?

Not much even when I went to school. The creativity they teach is often meaningless and to fit an agenda, this is then encouraged as the kids get older where they become indoctrinated further by groupthink organizations that are extensions of the control freaks that run this country, mostly Labour but all parties do it. Thats not to say all teaching is like that, there are some proper teachers and you are very lucky if you end up with one of those. Ironically, even though I found school terrible I did have very good art teachers and they probably helped nurture my creativity just that little bit further so I was quite lucky. That was in the 80s.

The true creatives are often not seen and are in the private sector, some making good money others just scraping a living and some end up in education. It can be tough, even more tough when you are faced with relentless armies of "controlled" young artists being pumped out by the state and the fully subsidized middlesclasses littluns that come out of most unis/colleges. Most are not creative they just copy and rehash old ideas taught to them by their masters, a few however are fantastic. This government is trying to create a new industry of creatives, most kinds of the "creative projects" are all their ideas funded by the taxpayer, not to mention the apprenticeships they bribe companies to create. I'm not sure how government branding is going to go down but the corporates will certainly take any cheap labour and the bribes that come their way. Have you seen all the empty shops now housing creatives, real artists still can't afford them... its all a sick joke, everything :angry:

I was very lucky to be born into a creative family(inc teachers) and I thank them for my life as a creative, the state can stuff it. I'm hoping to one day teach true creativity but I have to make a life for myself first.

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