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Sledgehead

Associate Of Mine Votes Tory But Is Clearly A Socialist

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I had a wide ranging conversation with an associate of mine yesterday covering politics, finance and economics. I thought I knew how he ticked on these subjects - at least how he ticked 5 years ago. However, during said conversation he confidently asserted that government was needed to run the economy, more specifically, to provide contracts for jobs.

I promptly set him straight (of course), explaining that government's natural role was to take (taxes) from business, not give to it, and, in an ideal world where the law was not needed, government should have no role.

I was frankly gob-smacked he could hold such a view, but quickly reconciled this with my original impressions by recalling the kind of contracts he had, in recent years, been involved with: government ones.

Of course, this is the south, where the public sector makes up something like 40% of the economy. What of the north or wales, scotland or N ireland, where government money makes up anywhere from 60-70% of the economy? What view of government exists there? What proportion of the country has been taught over the past 12 yeasr to sit still while mother government gets its nipple out?

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I had a wide ranging conversation with an associate of mine yesterday covering politics, finance and economics. I thought I knew how he ticked on these subjects - at least how he ticked 5 years ago. However, during said conversation he confidently asserted that government was needed to run the economy, more specifically, to provide contracts for jobs.

I promptly set him straight (of course), explaining that government's natural role was to take (taxes) from business, not give to it, and, in an ideal world where the law was not needed, government should have no role.

I was frankly gob-smacked he could hold such a view, but quickly reconciled this with my original impressions by recalling the kind of contracts he had, in recent years, been involved with: government ones.

Of course, this is the south, where the public sector makes up something like 40% of the economy. What of the north or wales, scotland or N ireland, where government money makes up anywhere from 60-70% of the economy? What view of government exists there? What proportion of the country has been taught over the past 12 yeasr to sit still while mother government gets its nipple out?

Well he's allowed the choice,that's what democracy is all about.If it helps at all I probably cancel him out.

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Everybody has the same mindset, "let me keep everything whilst the going is good, please bail me out when they are bad." Champagne socialists, state supported capitalists, it's always the same, what's mine is mine, what's your's is mine too!

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Everybody has the same mindset, "let me keep everything whilst the going is good, please bail me out when they are bad." Champagne socialists, state supported capitalists, it's always the same, what's mine is mine, what's your's is mine too!

Statism.

A whole nation state educated and therefore ******ed into a cocked hat.

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Guest X-QUORK

I'd put myself left of centre politically, but there's a reasonably good chance I'll be voting Conservative just to get rid of Labour. I'd rather live under the Tories than the NuLabour, which shows just how bad things have become.

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These days Nu Labour and the Tories are politically identical. Old Labour supporters vote BNP and Old Conservatives vote UKIP. F*ck knows what the Lib Dems stand for - I certainly don't.

(BTW, the BNP has extrapolated its membership growth curve and expects to overtake the Lib Dems in less than 2 years -- that will be a laugh!)

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These days Nu Labour and the Tories are politically identical. Old Labour supporters vote BNP and Old Conservatives vote UKIP. F*ck knows what the Lib Dems stand for - I certainly don't.

(BTW, the BNP has extrapolated its membership growth curve and expects to overtake the Lib Dems in less than 2 years -- that will be a laugh!)

That doesn't surprise me. I know a few old Tories who are looking at the BNP.

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It is conditioning. He probably isnt a socialist, but after years of socialist rule and nanny statism he believes gov are all important. Its not his fault we have a nanny state, (unless he voted the current lot in!)

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It is conditioning. He probably isnt a socialist, but after years of socialist rule and nanny statism he believes gov are all important. Its not his fault we have a nanny state, (unless he voted the current lot in!)

You mean it's not his fault he can't think?

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Statism.

A whole nation state educated and therefore ******ed into a cocked hat.

:lol:

I'm sure you are right in believing state-school teachers (gov employees) are (albeit unconsciously) passing on a socialist agenda. What makes matters worse is that my associate friend was privately educated, so god knows what the latest cohort are gonna be like.

Further to this, is anybody else amazed by the public perception of "Job Centres", as depicted on TV news? The lastest crop of sacked & unemployed folk seem to actually believe these establishments can and should help them. Is it just me or did people once feel that getting a job was the kind of thing one did on their todd? My impression was that the job centre was there to bully dole bludgers into cr@p jobs, not set people up with meaningful careers. No?

Edited by Sledgehead

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He's very much his own person. Floating voters change form one to another, and they are the ones that change governments in a swing

Hmm, see, I thought people who were "very much their own person" holed up off-grid in the hills of montana, with a dozen or so semi-automatic weapons, a few hundred thou in precious metal coins, trapping skills, three years supply of dried food, chickens, pigs and goats, and maybe an acre or two of farmland. I'm not quite sure how government supplied jobs fits with that ethos, but you are entitled to your view.

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My impression was that the job centre was there to bully dole bludgers into cr@p jobs, not set people up with meaningful careers. No?

Yes

But thats not how they are sold, job centre plus (plus what? plus a kick in the face?) are sold as a one stop solution shop, there inspiring places where you will be help you into getting your dream job. The gov spends money on advertising them as this, and the majority of the population believe the adverts and what they are told. Look at all the stuff that's going on around training, 'train to gain', is there any value there? What about those adverts on tv telling you could can take a part time course in IT and then you will earn 45k :P, what about all the BTL adverts we used to see? The people are sheep and they are conditioned to believe what they are told. Gov is a form of religion?

Edited by moosetea

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Hmm, see, I thought people who were "very much their own person" holed up off-grid in the hills of montana, with a dozen or so semi-automatic weapons, a few hundred thou in precious metal coins, trapping skills, three years supply of dried food, chickens, pigs and goats, and maybe an acre or two of farmland. I'm not quite sure how government supplied jobs fits with that ethos, but you are entitled to your view.

You'd be wrong then.

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the public sector is going to have to contract sooner or later as the deficit is unsustainable, government must be cut. people dont know the ins and outs of it

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I'd put myself left of centre politically, but there's a reasonably good chance I'll be voting Conservative just to get rid of Labour. I'd rather live under the Tories than the NuLabour, which shows just how bad things have become.

I once worked with a crew with a persistent farter among them. The foreman, hearing yet another noisome rectal fusillade, would leave the room shouting 'I'd rather be shot than poisoned..'

Seems just about where most of us currently find ourselves politically. And the room will still smell as bad....

Edited by juvenal

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Hmm, see, I thought people who were "very much their own person" holed up off-grid in the hills of montana, with a dozen or so semi-automatic weapons, a few hundred thou in precious metal coins, trapping skills, three years supply of dried food, chickens, pigs and goats, and maybe an acre or two of farmland. I'm not quite sure how government supplied jobs fits with that ethos, but you are entitled to your view.

oh yes true, but me being one of those people who are arogant enough think I am politically educated will blame people like your friend as being responsible for electing the wrong government.

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:lol:

I'm sure you are right in believing state-school teachers (gov employees) are (albeit unconsciously) passing on a socialist agenda. What makes matters worse is that my associate friend was privately educated, so god knows what the latest cohort are gonna be like.

Further to this, is anybody else amazed by the public perception of "Job Centres", as depicted on TV news? The lastest crop of sacked & unemployed folk seem to actually believe these establishments can and should help them. Is it just me or did people once feel that getting a job was the kind of thing one did on their todd? My impression was that the job centre was there to bully dole bludgers into cr@p jobs, not set people up with meaningful careers. No?

Correct, personally going through the aftermath right now, brains filled with nonsense and government knows best mantra. It is horrifying. :(

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the public sector is going to have to contract sooner or later ...

It seems that the OP's friend hopes that the public sector is going to contract him!

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This sort of behaviour seems to be the new normal. Some of my colleagues have ostracised me because I was critical of government ministers and the quantitive easing strategy. One called me a "racist", an interpolation I'm at a loss to explain but this is how the self-trained black-shirts operate now.

I think it’s the propaganda in the media that is more to blame. Rational thought has been classified as "tory", "right wing" and nasty whereas more feminine qualities such as empathy and agreeing with the group is seen as nice, "on message" and progressive. This was the crux of the whole Blair's Britain vision, from people's Princess down it was Orwellian linguistic programming and people love it.

I feel like one of the last survivors in the movie Invasion of the body snatchers.

Edited by TwoWolves

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then educate me

Well we can turn this into a big **** waving session or alternatively be mature about it and accept that we both have different interpretations of "being your own person".

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I'd put myself left of centre politically, but there's a reasonably good chance I'll be voting Conservative just to get rid of Labour. I'd rather live under the Tories than the NuLabour, which shows just how bad things have become.

What is being left of center? I consider myself left of center but I will rejoice when we see the back of this government.

I believe in a welfare state and NHS. Although I wish they would do a bit more to get the workshy into a job. However, borrowing money to pay for services in a boom is patently obviously stupid that you could probably explain it to a five year old and he'd understand it.

Don't we need to kick them out every ten years or so to keep them on their toes? As a good majority is happy with the status quo, we either get a Tory or Labour government. Some people say that's as good as a dictatorship. But a dictator doesn't have to wait around for x amount of years because you've replaced him.

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Well we can turn this into a big **** waving session or alternatively be mature about it and accept that we both have different interpretations of "being your own person".

Right, I see: so mature people embrace subjectivity, but only after declaring their view as objective and absolute:

You'd be wrong then.

**** !

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My impression was that the job centre was there to bully dole bludgers into cr@p jobs, not set people up with meaningful careers. No?

I suspect some people who imagine they are in a meaningful career aren't, and if you haven't got one a jobs a job.

My wife worked in a job centre for a while. They used an efficient, if unpleasant, system whereby one day was reserved for the ex jailbirds, winos, and generally foul-mouthed illiterate. Not her favourite day of the week. She liked to try to help people find jobs. Those days she preferred.

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