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numpty

And You Can Add Another 750k To The Jobless

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...yment-kate-moss

Other sub-strands could be the short-term unemployed, long-term, skilled, unskilled and so on. Then there is a new one I've only just heard of – "the Missing Unemployed", these being the estimated 750,000 middle-class people who have lost their jobs in the "white-collar recession", but have not been claiming any benefits. Instead, they are presumed to be living off savings, redundancy payments or being supported by a spouse who is still earning.

The presumption is that three-quarters of a million people either don't realise they can claim benefits, wouldn't know where to begin or are simply too proud and dignified to do so. Or as one government source put it: "People who do not think of themselves as the sort of people who claim benefits." Oh, those sorts of people, I see. Then again, I don't.

So by the time you take the 2.3 million registed add 0.75 as above and god knows how many claiming invalidity benefit how many people are unemployed???

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Back in the 1950s and 60s, when a lot of families lived on one wage, 'housewife' was seen as employment of a sort. If they had all 'signed on' as looking for a job, I expect unemployment would have been 3 million + for decades.

If the "middle-class recently unemployed" have registered as such, they would count in the figures. That's why there's 2 measures, those on JSA (which is means and contribution tested) and 'the unemployed' as a total.

Edited by deflation

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yep,circa 5 million in my not so humble opinion

Don't forget the unemployed City boys. They generally get insurance. Normally pays about £2,000 a month for 12 months before that dries up.

I know of 2 on it with another just back in work after a year on it.

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this should shut up the annoying twats who say 3million unemployed under the Tories. Though, I have no doubt they will say that as of next June again too........ - as someone has to sort out this shambles.

If they'd not politically jerrymandered, we'd not be far of 15% interest rates either (not LIBOR, but real world).

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what i would like to see is a complete brake down of then whole population, IE how many are employed like:

X total population (estimated at 60 million)

X people in employment ive head figures of 20 million in employment

X people in full time education

X people retired

X people other -

as there are ~ 60 million with 20 million employed and 3 million unemployed, so where are the other 37million people

they must know how many children are in full time education (if they turn up is another thread)

they must know how many people are drawing a state pension and so on

Edited by Monkey

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Back in the 1950s and 60s, when a lot of families lived on one wage, 'housewife' was seen as employment of a sort. If they had all 'signed on' as looking for a job, I expect unemployment would have been 3 million + for decades.

If the "middle-class recently unemployed" have registered as such, they would count in the figures. That's why there's 2 measures, those on JSA (which is means and contribution tested) and 'the unemployed' as a total.

how many were employed directly and indirectly by the State in the 50's and 60's

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what i would like to see is a complete brake down of then whole population, IE how many are employed like:

X total population (estimated at 60 million)

X people in employment ive head figures of 20 million in employment

X people in full time education

X people retired

X people other -

as there are ~ 60 million with 20 million employed and 3 million unemployed, so where are the other 37million people

they must know how many children are in full time education (if they turn up is another thread)

they must know how many people are drawing a state pension and so on

add to that jolly list those employed by local and central government, quangos

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...yment-kate-moss

Other sub-strands could be the short-term unemployed, long-term, skilled, unskilled and so on. Then there is a new one I've only just heard of – "the Missing Unemployed", these being the estimated 750,000 middle-class people who have lost their jobs in the "white-collar recession", but have not been claiming any benefits. Instead, they are presumed to be living off savings, redundancy payments or being supported by a spouse who is still earning.

The presumption is that three-quarters of a million people either don't realise they can claim benefits, wouldn't know where to begin or are simply too proud and dignified to do so. Or as one government source put it: "People who do not think of themselves as the sort of people who claim benefits." Oh, those sorts of people, I see. Then again, I don't.

So by the time you take the 2.3 million registed add 0.75 as above and god knows how many claiming invalidity benefit how many people are unemployed???

I think that around 30-35% of people of working in age in the UK are not currently working.

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makes some sense to me, I've passed up on unemployment benefits before myself, having been made redundant around the turn of the decade.

Seems really stupid to me now, it would have been worth a couple of k over the 8/9 months I was looking for the "right" job.

But I didn't really need the money at the time, and I really couldn't be arsed with the hassle.

Still, that's another whole bunch of people not looking to buy a house...

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If you have more than 16K savings then you can't claim jobseekers.

Slight correction. You can't claim income means tested JSA after 6 months. You can claim contributions based JSA for the first 6 months.

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I'm far from middle class and I've been unemployed for a couple of months now, without claiming anything. That's not to do with pride or any such b*llshit, it's because I'm going back to college....by the time the dole claim gets sorted I'll be a student and not elligable to claim the dole. Hey f*cking ho.

The only thing worse than doing a cr*p job is looking for a cr*p job when unemployed.

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So that being the case these people live in a sort of purgatory - neither employed or unemployed and are not counted in either of the figures, un-persons. It would be interesting to know how many 'purgatory un-persons' there are.

A lot also won't qualify because they have paid insufficient NI. If they have a partner who is working that will take them out of the JSA system. I think there are loads of people who are invisible as far as the claim firgures go.

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what i would like to see is a complete brake down of then whole population, IE how many are employed like:

X total population (estimated at 60 million)

X people in employment ive head figures of 20 million in employment

X people in full time education

X people retired

X people other -

as there are ~ 60 million with 20 million employed and 3 million unemployed, so where are the other 37million people

they must know how many children are in full time education (if they turn up is another thread)

they must know how many people are drawing a state pension and so on

Remember that people do not agree on exactly how many people there are in the country, never mind breaking it down.

Bear in mind that all these govt databases are not linked in tghe way conspiracy theorist imagine, or indeed that way people who say "they must know" imagine. Simply counting the people taking various benefits will not give the correct totals. For example I know of one 75 year old who refuses to take her pension on the basis she dislikes govt handouts (or perhaps being on govt files.) They don't know exactly how many are in employment or are retired. Not only children are in full-time education, adults can be too.

You can derive estimates of breakdowns of the adult population from various sample surveys. The different surveys will give a historical figure (particulalrly if a govt survey) and different results (hopefully only slightly different.) If the survey was collected over a period of timetime rather than all at a fixed point in time you have an additional worry - people do not stay the same just to make counting easier. They move jobs, move in and out of jobs, move in and ot of education even retire during the period of a year. They even change social class - about a third of people get classified as a different social class if a researcher goes back a few months after first interviewing them.

Thankfully you'll find the govt statisticians have collated great deal of the data for you in a publication called regional trends. This will point you at a lot of data resources. link It will not be in exactly the layout you asked for, but....

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A friend of mine had 5 offers on her flat in zone 3 London in the recent suckers' rally/silly season...all fallen through due to two of those people losing their jobs and the other 3 having mortgage finance problems.

They were all middle class, 'young pro' types - the lifeblood of a market that is surely about to enter its next 'FEAR' phase.

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Only the Guardian would complain that people are not claiming benefits despite being eligible!

People who accept the world does not in fact owe them a living and treat benefits as the last resort safety net it should be rather than claiming it as soon as they can regardless of need should command respect, not derision.

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Personally I think state statistics are a bit of an "issue". We sorely need an alternative statistics source in the UK to balance things. I for one am fed up with being told how we've never had it so good when it's plainly obvious the real economy has been in decline for decades.

For example:

There's more people in jobs, but what proportion of jobs are part-time and how has that changed over the years?

Average income is said to be something like 29k, but the median is far lower and reportedly is in flat-line mode for many years now. I've tried to find plots of this going back years but those plots are not possible to find.

NEETS: what is the true number of NEETS? I've seen figures all over the place, but ranging up to 22% of a generation.

We've been told iin the press last year the number of "economically inactive" is the highest since records began in 1971, but then someone came on here and refuted that.

So it's all a bit confused, and I think we're being systematically mislead.

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We've been told iin the press last year the number of "economically inactive" is the highest since records began in 1971, but then someone came on here and refuted that.

So it's all a bit confused, and I think we're being systematically mislead.

As any Talking Heads fan knows;

Number of times since 1979 [to 1988] that Britain has "refined" its method of counting the unemployed: 24

Number of those "refinements" that have lead to a lower unemployment rate: 23

Its always been utter nonsense, for decades now, you are quite right.

Edited by Cogs

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As any Talking Heads fan knows;

Number of times since 1979 [to 1988] that Britain has "refined" its method of counting the unemployed: 24

Number of those "refinements" that have lead to a lower unemployment rate: 23

Its always been utter nonsense, for decades now, you are quite right.

Are we the only country in the world where getting things 4rse over tit is called refinement?

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Are we the only country in the world where getting things 4rse over tit is called refinement?

Well the USA is on much the same course, but at least they have www.shadowstats.com to document it. Apparently we have Talking Heads.

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