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Dave Spart

Bbc : Room To Swing A Cat? Hardly

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As if you needed confirmation . . .

The UK builds the smallest homes in Europe, according to the government's adviser on architecture. How do British new-builds stack up internationally?

The sofa won't fit into the living room. There's not enough room for children to play in the kitchen as you cook. And where's the recycling bin meant to go?

These are some of the complaints from residents of new-build developments surveyed by Cabe, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment.

The floor area and room sizes are the smallest in Europe - the average room in a newly built dwelling in France is 26.9m square, compared with 15.8m square in the UK - and, the graph below shows how British new-builds are less than half the size of those in the United States and Australia.

The Cabe survey questioned residents of homes built between 2003 and 2006, in London or within an hour's travel time of the capital.

_46207294_houses_466_3.gif

Edited by Dave Spart

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OK, but Britain is tiny compared to the US and Australia. If you've visited either country you'll know their use of space is far less discriminatory than ours because they have so much room.

And if the sofa won't fit in the living room and there's not enough room for the kids to play you shouldn't have bought the house should you?

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Well what's your point? Are you going to "Love Earth Save Earth" by turning swathes of green belt over to the building of large inefficient American style wooden homes so we can be just like them?

Or was it a Daily Mail style "Look how much better johnny foreigner has it - outrage!!!" type posting.

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The statistic showing the difference in room sizes is pretty shocking, but I am not really surprised about the difference in the size of an average dwelling.

The UK planners have an obsession with building flats. I'd expect that these other countries build flats in cities and commuter locations, and larger houses elsewhere. In the UK, we seem to build flats in villages and provincial towns where the is no traditional demand for that type of housing.

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Well what's your point? Are you going to "Love Earth Save Earth" by turning swathes of green belt over to the building of large inefficient American style wooden homes so we can be just like them?

Or was it a Daily Mail style "Look how much better johnny foreigner has it - outrage!!!" type posting.

No get rid of 10 million or so, maybe 20 million then we can grow into their space

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Oh, yeah and they're the most over-priced too.

An international comparison of cost per square foot would show just how ridiculous prices really are in Blighty :lol:

Edited by Dave Spart

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OK, but Britain is tiny compared to the US and Australia. If you've visited either country you'll know their use of space is far less discriminatory than ours because they have so much room.

let me guess - your an Architect :P

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Well what's your point? Are you going to "Love Earth Save Earth" by turning swathes of green belt over to the building of large inefficient American style wooden homes so we can be just like them?

Or was it a Daily Mail style "Look how much better johnny foreigner has it - outrage!!!" type posting.

No, it was a link from a housing related article on the BBC website to a housing themed website, highlighting the high-cost and low-quality of property on offer in the UK.

Edited by Dave Spart

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Have you noticed how bank head-offices always occupy the most plush buildings?

We build bubbles instead, it would be interesting to see if any factories were being built, apart from the odd designer industrial estate with price tag to match.

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We build bubbles instead, it would be interesting to see if any factories were being built, apart from the odd designer industrial estate with price tag to match.

The Brits have been brainwashed into factory-phobia whereas in China they've got factory factories.

Edited by Dave Spart

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76 square meters?

how many new build flats are 10m by 7.6m?

4 x 7 maybe?

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OK, but Britain is tiny compared to the US and Australia. If you've visited either country you'll know their use of space is far less discriminatory than ours because they have so much room.

And if the sofa won't fit in the living room and there's not enough room for the kids to play you shouldn't have bought the house should you?

We make very little. Which is why Great Britain is finished.

I have a Brunel/Imperial education.. a BEng and MEng.. city n guyilds, ONC, A levels physics maths etc

I have very little manufacturing experience and had to go into teaching instead. Jobs just aint there.

We will not get out of this hole. You need to make stuff to get out of a hole. You certainly can't rely on finance as has been proven.

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Guest sillybear2
OK, but Britain is tiny compared to the US and Australia. If you've visited either country you'll know their use of space is far less discriminatory than ours because they have so much room.

It's not that simple, the US and Australia have vast open and empty spaces in the middle but most of the population is on the seaboards, in terms of population density these areas are every bit as dense as the UK, yet they still manage to build decent sized homes. Take the US Eastern Seaboard for example, not much different from the UK in terms of population and land area :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BosWash

People also ignore the fact 90% of the UK is 'empty', less than 8% urbanised. Twice as much land is allocated to greenbelt than is allocated towns and cities, and the greenbelt has expanded over the years, more land is 'protected' than ever before. A little fact the 'stop concreting over the countryside, there's nothing left' bogeyman brigade conveniently ignores.

Edited by sillybear2

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People also ignore the fact 90% of the UK is 'empty', less than 8% urbanised. Twice as much land is allocated to greenbelt than is allocated towns and cities, and the greenbelt has expanded over the years, more land is 'protected' than ever before. A little fact the 'stop concreting over the countryside, there's nothing left' bogeyman brigade conveniently ignores.

+1

The UK is not short of land. Look at Scotland, with its population density of 65.6/km2; countries with a similar population density include Jordan, Marocco, Tunisia...

The UK is swimming in spare land; the only problem is that everyone wants to live in the South-East, as that's the only place that businesses want to open offices in, as it's also the only place where the government is spending megamoney on infrastructure (Crossrail, Olympics, Terminal 5).

Edited by DeepLurker

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Guest sillybear2
+1

The UK is not short of land. Look at Scotland, with its population density of 65.6/km2; countries with a similar population density include Jordan, Marocco, Tunisia...

The UK is swimming in spare land; the only problem is that everyone wants to live in the South-East, as that's the only place that businesses want to open offices in, as it's also the only place where the government is spending megamoney on infrastructure (Crossrail, Olympics, Terminal 5).

That's because the UK doesn't have any internal tax competition, a lagging area cannot drop its business rates or corporation tax and attract in businesses from over heating areas. That said, the South-East is only 13% urbanised.

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publicati...ation.cgi?id=46

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publicati...ation.cgi?id=54

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That's because the UK doesn't have any internal tax competition, a lagging area cannot drop its business rates or corporation tax and attract in businesses from over heating areas. That said, the South-East is only 13% urbanised.

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publicati...ation.cgi?id=46

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publicati...ation.cgi?id=54

Thanks for the links; not sure that I agree with some of the points in the pamphlets, but still an eyeopener onto stuff that I never knew!

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Thanks for the links; not sure that I agree with some of the points in the pamphlets, but still an eyeopener onto stuff that I never knew!

The measly square footage (or metres) of new builds in this country has very little to do with population density. It is much more a product of developers wanting to achieve the maximum profit out of each and every piece of development land. Unlike with public (or housing association) regs, there is no mimimum footage for private builds - as presumably it is then up to "market forces" - ie - if it's too small the buyer won't buy. Interesting therefore that when the developers being somewhat up a proverbial creek without a paddle, tried to offload some of the shoddy small builds onto the public/pseudo public sector, they found that they were refused because the houses they built were too small and sub-standard.

http://www.greenbuildingpress.co.uk/articl...?article_id=207

Edit for typos

Edited by Ellie

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OK, but Britain is tiny compared to the US and Australia.

And compared to Ireland, Denmark, France or Germany............ :rolleyes:

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