The Next Great Investment Opportunity?

[Hip to be bear]

Need to know what t/o it's doing now but I bet it's nearer £100k than £250k.

Not sure the RV will stay at £9k long if Punch had a lease documented at £36k.

I don't think there's shirt losing potential at the figures involved but not convinced there's massive upside. Quite a few people will probably have run the slide rule over it and decided against.

No idea of current T/O, but I suspect that it is from wet only sales.....They are showing Sky sports and have a blackboard offering free food at half time. Not a great way to improve your GP on food sales . It smacks of desperation of what is already a failing business to me.

[SNACR]

1. Yes if possible.

2. I would certainly take advice re the CGT, as I know little. Thanks for your input.

3. Having not viewed the property yet I have no idea about refurb costs. If we wanted to do the letting rooms + kitchen + public areas we could probably spend more than £60k. We might be able to spend a lot less to just get the business up and running. All I have seen is limited sales particulars so far.

4. Punch wanted yield of 10% on their £360,000 investment...hence original rent of £36k which seems to have killed the 2 previous tenants.

I would like to achieve a rent of £20k+, which would equate to 10%. Given the bonus to a prospective tenant of the free of tie lease, I see no reason why a rent of £20k should not be achievable. The reason for the whole post / thread is that a freehold pub could be a solid investment as the big pubcos are desperate to sell.

I think try and ignore what Punch Taverns bought/rented at. Otherwise you can end up like women in the sales when they buy coats, they don't really like, because the sale ticket says 'was £400'.

J

[Hip to be bear]

so your plan is ,that if successful,you will become a LL,sit back and let someone else do the graft.cool!

you want to read some of the CRE threads before you take the plunge.Food led pubs are going one way over the next few years,it happens to be the same way as the drinkers pubs,so they won't be lonely.

THe reason we are selling our successful restaurant business is to be closer to my wife's parents as baby no 2 is on the way. She is keen for a gastro pub in 5 years time or so. I would not touch a pubco leasehold pub (under their current business model with a beer tie) as rents are extortionate. Now is a better time to buy a freehold than it was as the pubcos are shedding properties to repay debt:

This one was bought by punch for £360,000 and they are selling now for under £200K freehold. It is over 3 floors and has 7 bedrooms in the owners flat and 1st floor lettings rooms.

I know pubs are and will continue to have a tough time, but there will still be successful food led pubs in the UK in the future.

7 BEDROOMS FOR UNDER £200,000. A 3 BED TERRACED IN THE NEXT ROAD WOULD CURRENTLY SELL FOR MORE!

I COULD CLOSE THE PUB AND LIVE IN IT FFS.

[Hip to be bear]

Time to serve dinner to the hungry masses. I look foward to catching up here later.

[winkie]

Time to serve dinner to the hungry masses. I look foward to catching up here later.

Funny you should say that, I know of someone that has sold their restaurant business and now have a pub with nice garden, good beer, brilliant food and great live music....what more could you want.

[Moley]

Time to serve dinner to the hungry masses. I look foward to catching up here later.

Got to go and be poisoned (again) by the in-laws. I'll check in later if I'm not throwing up.

[Hip to be bear]

45 diners in tonight.....around a quarter foreign tourists (german, Dutch and swedish tonight) spending their bionic euros along the south coast of England.

So much for the recession....we have had record months in April, May, June and July. August so so.

[Hip to be bear]

I think try and ignore what Punch Taverns bought/rented at. Otherwise you can end up like women in the sales when they buy coats, they don't really like, because the sale ticket says 'was £400'.

J

Yes, I agree. Its the same with houses innit? That million pound house should actually be worth half of that. This pub might have been £400k at peak and is now at half of that. Pubs have had the crash that houses should have had too but for govt intervention. Maybe they will go down further.....maybe not. I would rather buy a pub than a house right now at these prices.

[Normal]

If it is where I think it is, do you have the required number of fingers and toes to be accepted by the locals?

[Hip to be bear]

If it is where I think it is, do you have the required number of fingers and toes to be accepted by the locals?

No but my wife has enough for 4 of us!!!

[three pint princess]

Check the council for compaints or requests for restrictions on licence.

[Guest absolutezero]

I hear protection money on pubs is a common thing that eats into profits.

[Hip to be bear]

Check the council for compaints or requests for restrictions on licence.

Yep, I would do that as a matter of course. THey have done live music and karaoke there, so a food led venue is going to be less nuisence than the current operation.

[Hip to be bear]

I hear protection money on pubs is a common thing that eats into profits.

Thats a new one on me!

[juvenal]

If we visit, should we identify ourselves to you with the secret HPC handshake and trouser snake ritual?

[Hip to be bear]

If we visit, should we identify ourselves to you with the secret HPC handshake and trouser snake ritual?

Its on the IOW, Juvenal....As you know the population of Dorset is merely proof that those inbreds on the IOW can swim

Just slap your six fingered hand on the bar and you will be greeted like a long lost friend!!!

Edited August 14, 2009 by Hip to be bear

[juvenal]

Its on the IOW, Juvenal....As you know the population of Dorset is merely proof that those inbreds on the IOW can swim

Just slap your six fingered hand on the bar and you will be greeted like a long lost friend!!!

New pub sign is ready:

[Hip to be bear]

New pub sign is ready:

It's like the film Field of Dreams.....Buy it, put up the sign and they will come!

Cheers for the sign.

More likely I would be chased into the Channel by angry locals with pitchforks!

As I was floating off on the tide they would all jeer and stick 3 fingers up at me.

[ZeroSumGame]

Only read some of the thread earlier - but isn't someone tempted to take on one of these businesses just for the potential chance that you could own the fine buildings underneath ?

I mean run it into the ground then apply for permission to change usage ? ?

[Hip to be bear]

Only read some of the thread earlier - but isn't someone tempted to take on one of these businesses just for the potential chance that you could own the fine buildings underneath ?

I mean run it into the ground then apply for permission to change usage ? ?

Plan B...exactly. A large 3 story property in a residential area. It shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Developers would probably prefer a pub with a decent car park though.....Land for more slave boxes.

[ZeroSumGame]

Plan B...exactly. A large 3 story property in a residential area. It shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Developers would probably prefer a pub with a decent car park though.....Land for more slave boxes.

Good Man. I've previously searched through a lot of these pubs and I'd buy one of them just for the fine building it really is.

Not in a trillion years could you buy such a fine domain with that that space for under £2M.

Edited August 15, 2009 by RockingHorse

[SNACR]

Good Man. I've previously searched through a lot of these pubs and I'd buy one of them just for the fine building it really is.

Not in a trillion years could you buy such a fine domain with that that space for under £2M.

Councils will at some point have an increasingly large agenda to retain commercial premises in towns so as to keep the fabric of the community and also business rates revenues.

I suspect, in the not too distant future change of uses to residential will become almost impossible to acquire.

[Hip to be bear]

Councils will at some point have an increasingly large agenda to retain commercial premises in towns so as to keep the fabric of the community and also business rates revenues.

I suspect, in the not too distant future change of uses to residential will become almost impossible to acquire.

With regard to hotels on the IOW that is certainly true. THe council are likely refuse permission for change of use for any hotel over 10 bedrooms, as they want to retain the hotel stock, to maintain their tourism industry. I don't know about their policy re pubs, but there are logical arguments that there is an oversupply of pubs currently. How long would ex pubs need to sit idle and decay or be taken over by squatters, before councils would relent?

THh said the low price (currently / relatively) might well suggest that change of use is unlikely to be an option.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Hip to be bear

[D.C.]

Plan B...exactly. A large 3 story property in a residential area. It shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Developers would probably prefer a pub with a decent car park though.....Land for more slave boxes.

I had thought you could get somewhere like that and then apply to convert into a photography studio.

Even paying rates & mortgage would probably be cheaper than paying mortgage on a place of similar size.

Plus you can stick a sofa etc in as 'artistic props'

[Fairies Wear Boots]

Yes, I agree. Its the same with houses innit? That million pound house should actually be worth half of that. This pub might have been £400k at peak and is now at half of that. Pubs have had the crash that houses should have had too but for govt intervention. Maybe they will go down further.....maybe not. I would rather buy a pub than a house right now at these prices.

I was going to joke that you should buy it and turn it into flats after the first two pages. But it doesn't seem much of a joke any more. How hard is it to get change of use consent then? It also sounds like even if you just shut the pub, you'll have more bedrooms than buying a house. A public bar would make a decent sized living room!