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Bob8

Horse's Mouth

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You may be familiar with this story, often attributed to Francis Bacon;

"In the year of our Lord 1432, there arose a grievous quarrel among the brethren over the number of teeth in the mouth of a horse. For thirteen days the disputation raged without ceasing. All the ancient books and chronicles were fetched out, and wonderful and ponderous erudition such as was never before heard of in this region was made manifest. At the beginning of the fourteenth day, a youthful friar of goodly bearing asked his learned superiors for permission to add a word, and straightway, to the wonderment of the disputants, whose deep wisdom he sore vexed, he beseeched them to unbend in a manner coarse and unheard-of and to look in the open mouth of a horse and find answer to their questionings. At this, their dignity being grievously hurt, they waxed exceeding wroth; and, joining in a mighty uproar, they flew upon him and smote him, hip and thigh, and cast him out forthwith. For, said they, surely Satan hath tempted this bold neophyte to declare unholy and unheard-of ways of finding truth, contrary to all the teachings of the fathers. After many days more of grievous strife, the dove of peace sat on the assembly, and they as one man declaring the problem to be an everlasting mystery because of a grievous dearth of historical and theological evidence thereof, so ordered the same writ down."

I mention it, as much of what passes for scientific debate on this board is comparable to the Elders, none of whom are actually interested in knowing above quarreling.

In the flu vaccine debate, I have examined this horse's teeth, but was arguing with idiots who thought they knew better. With global warming, none of us have examined it ourselves, but many seem to think they know better than those who have (there will be exceptions, but then if a hundred people had counted the horses teeth, it is expected that one or two will get a different number).

It is no problem, but accept it is superstition.

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Why do you confuse disagreeing that something may or may not be happening, and the cause of it, with not caring if something is happening or the cause of it?

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Bob8

You seem to have adopted a lofty pinnacle on which you align yourself with "The Experts" and suggest that the lesser mortals are so stpud they must not dare to question these founts of knowledge.

Unfortunately, scientific history is redolent of examples where experts held to considered opinion, despite growing doubts.

Until someone else happened along and disproved these experts' neat theories and posits!

You mention two current areas: Global Warming and the new vaccine for H1N1.

Unfortunately, far too many scientists refute the presently mounted placid political and media acceptance that Climate Change and Global Warming are a de facto proven case.

Such as the BBC are amongst the very worst culprits, acting like an American frontier Snake Oil salesman, conning the gullible that his magic elixir was a universal panacea for all man's ills.

Insofar as the vaccine be concerned, no one actually knows as yet if it really works!

The UK government have suffered perhaps the Mightiest Knee Jerk reaction in history, over the Swine 'Flu epidemic/ pandemic!

Never before in modern Western medical history have prescription drugs been dispensed by ingenues in call centres having zero medical knowledge: patients are being prescribed powerful drugs without a screening medcial examination, and only as a result of the patient's self-diagnosis and panic.

The recent case of the TV presenter, Andrew Castle's young daughter suffering a near fatal adverse side affect is a sad though excellent example of political expediency and the greed of Big Pharma overriding safety and normal levels of caution.

People are absolutely correct to exercise considerable scepticism on both areas.

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Bob8

You seem to have adopted a lofty pinnacle on which you align yourself with "The Experts" and suggest that the lesser mortals are so stpud they must not dare to question these founts of knowledge.

Unfortunately, scientific history is redolent of examples where experts held to considered opinion, despite growing doubts.

Until someone else happened along and disproved these experts' neat theories and posits!

You mention two current areas: Global Warming and the new vaccine for H1N1.

Unfortunately, far too many scientists refute the presently mounted placid political and media acceptance that Climate Change and Global Warming are a de facto proven case.

Such as the BBC are amongst the very worst culprits, acting like an American frontier Snake Oil salesman, conning the gullible that his magic elixir was a universal panacea for all man's ills.

Insofar as the vaccine be concerned, no one actually knows as yet if it really works!

The UK government have suffered perhaps the Mightiest Knee Jerk reaction in history, over the Swine 'Flu epidemic/ pandemic!

Never before in modern Western medical history have prescription drugs been dispensed by ingenues in call centres having zero medical knowledge: patients are being prescribed powerful drugs without a screening medcial examination, and only as a result of the patient's self-diagnosis and panic.

The recent case of the TV presenter, Andrew Castle's young daughter suffering a near fatal adverse side affect is a sad though excellent example of political expediency and the greed of Big Pharma overriding safety and normal levels of caution.

People are absolutely correct to exercise considerable scepticism on both areas.

I'm not sure why it is that some think that "experts" are the only people for whom absolute power does not corrupt.

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Bob8

You seem to have adopted a lofty pinnacle on which you align yourself with "The Experts" and suggest that the lesser mortals are so stpud they must not dare to question these founts of knowledge.

Unfortunately, scientific history is redolent of examples where experts held to considered opinion, despite growing doubts.

Until someone else happened along and disproved these experts' neat theories and posits!

You mention two current areas: Global Warming and the new vaccine for H1N1.

Unfortunately, far too many scientists refute the presently mounted placid political and media acceptance that Climate Change and Global Warming are a de facto proven case.

Such as the BBC are amongst the very worst culprits, acting like an American frontier Snake Oil salesman, conning the gullible that his magic elixir was a universal panacea for all man's ills.

Insofar as the vaccine be concerned, no one actually knows as yet if it really works!

The UK government have suffered perhaps the Mightiest Knee Jerk reaction in history, over the Swine 'Flu epidemic/ pandemic!

Never before in modern Western medical history have prescription drugs been dispensed by ingenues in call centres having zero medical knowledge: patients are being prescribed powerful drugs without a screening medcial examination, and only as a result of the patient's self-diagnosis and panic.

The recent case of the TV presenter, Andrew Castle's young daughter suffering a near fatal adverse side affect is a sad though excellent example of political expediency and the greed of Big Pharma overriding safety and normal levels of caution.

People are absolutely correct to exercise considerable scepticism on both areas.

You accuse me of arrogance, yet the determination of many of maintain a position of willful stupidity leaves me nowhere else to go. I could ignore you and chuckle at you behind my back or be frank about the contempt with which I hold your intellect. I have chosed the more humble.

The UK Government did give a huge OTT knee jerk reaction. That, my little chum, is politics. UK is the most ready for a serious pandemic, but they have proven to be a little too jumpy. Tamiflu has been abused by doctors, this is clear. I have not argued against any of this. Andrew Castle's kid is a frightenly bad example, indeed it is a better example of media hype, which you would claim to see through.

Scientific history os full of examples of self-examination and critic. It is also full of examples of being attacked by ignorant nonsense. If you have gone to the trouble to read the research papers, attend conferences etc (which is not much to ask if you believe your nonsense) then you will be heard with respect. If not, you are an empty vessel.

Scientists are critical, that is what they do. If they do not find the results to argue, if reality does not match your politics, that is not their fault. Perhaps you should align your mind with reality - it was fashionable during the enlightenment.

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You accuse me of arrogance,

Where?

yet the determination of many of maintain a position of willful stupidity leaves me nowhere else to go. I could ignore you and chuckle at you behind my back or be frank about the contempt with which I hold your intellect. I have chosed the more humble.

Now that FFS IS arrogance!

The UK Government did give a huge OTT knee jerk reaction. That, my little chum, is politics. Perhaps you should align your mind with reality - it was fashionable during the enlightenment.

And that is hugely patronisng.

The only advice I can render is Sex and Travel!

Ill-informed arrogant to$$er!

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You accuse me of arrogance, yet the determination of many of maintain a position of willful stupidity leaves me nowhere else to go. I could ignore you and chuckle at you behind my back or be frank about the contempt with which I hold your intellect. I have chosed the more humble.

The UK Government did give a huge OTT knee jerk reaction. That, my little chum, is politics. UK is the most ready for a serious pandemic, but they have proven to be a little too jumpy. Tamiflu has been abused by doctors, this is clear. I have not argued against any of this. Andrew Castle's kid is a frightenly bad example, indeed it is a better example of media hype, which you would claim to see through.

Scientific history os full of examples of self-examination and critic. It is also full of examples of being attacked by ignorant nonsense. If you have gone to the trouble to read the research papers, attend conferences etc (which is not much to ask if you believe your nonsense) then you will be heard with respect. If not, you are an empty vessel.

Scientists are critical, that is what they do. If they do not find the results to argue, if reality does not match your politics, that is not their fault. Perhaps you should align your mind with reality - it was fashionable during the enlightenment.

You're a shining example of everything that's wrong with science, Bob. Congratulations. Enjoy the megalomania.

You're one of the most simple-minded posters I've seen on this forum.

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Bob8

You seem to have adopted a lofty pinnacle on which you align yourself with "The Experts" and suggest that the lesser mortals are so stpud they must not dare to question these founts of knowledge.

Unfortunately, scientific history is redolent of examples where experts held to considered opinion, despite growing doubts.

Until someone else happened along and disproved these experts' neat theories and posits!

You mention two current areas: Global Warming and the new vaccine for H1N1.

Unfortunately, far too many scientists refute the presently mounted placid political and media acceptance that Climate Change and Global Warming are a de facto proven case.

Such as the BBC are amongst the very worst culprits, acting like an American frontier Snake Oil salesman, conning the gullible that his magic elixir was a universal panacea for all man's ills.

Insofar as the vaccine be concerned, no one actually knows as yet if it really works!

The UK government have suffered perhaps the Mightiest Knee Jerk reaction in history, over the Swine 'Flu epidemic/ pandemic!

Never before in modern Western medical history have prescription drugs been dispensed by ingenues in call centres having zero medical knowledge: patients are being prescribed powerful drugs without a screening medcial examination, and only as a result of the patient's self-diagnosis and panic.

The recent case of the TV presenter, Andrew Castle's young daughter suffering a near fatal adverse side affect is a sad though excellent example of political expediency and the greed of Big Pharma overriding safety and normal levels of caution.

People are absolutely correct to exercise considerable scepticism on both areas.

Spot on! I believe the general view amongst scientists at one time was that the Earth was the centre of the universe.

I believe they were also convinced we would be in the middle of another ice-age round-about now.

They were wrong on those things. They may equally be wrong on global warming, or of course, correct.

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You accuse me of arrogance, yet the determination of many of maintain a position of willful stupidity leaves me nowhere else to go. I could ignore you and chuckle at you behind my back or be frank about the contempt with which I hold your intellect. I have chosed the more humble.

The UK Government did give a huge OTT knee jerk reaction. That, my little chum, is politics. UK is the most ready for a serious pandemic, but they have proven to be a little too jumpy. Tamiflu has been abused by doctors, this is clear. I have not argued against any of this. Andrew Castle's kid is a frightenly bad example, indeed it is a better example of media hype, which you would claim to see through.

Scientific history os full of examples of self-examination and critic. It is also full of examples of being attacked by ignorant nonsense. If you have gone to the trouble to read the research papers, attend conferences etc (which is not much to ask if you believe your nonsense) then you will be heard with respect. If not, you are an empty vessel.

Scientists are critical, that is what they do. If they do not find the results to argue, if reality does not match your politics, that is not their fault. Perhaps you should align your mind with reality - it was fashionable during the enlightenment.

It's also full of examples of being laughably wrong.

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There was a lady posted on this forum a while back who said she had academic knowledge in the field and used to endlessly argue with the, let's call them the Flat Earthers. I can't remember her name, but I dont see her posting anymore. I think she got tired of either the abuse or the sheer pointlessness of the arguments.

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Guest theboltonfury
There was a lady posted on this forum a while back who said she had academic knowledge in the field and used to endlessly argue with the, let's call them the Flat Earthers. I can't remember her name, but I dont see her posting anymore. I think she got tired of either the abuse or the sheer pointlessness of the arguments.

I have always questioned academic intelligence.

My university lecturers had it, yet they frequently managed to show themselves up with any application of that knowledge in to the real world.

Just a thought.

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I mention it, as much of what passes for scientific debate on this board is comparable to the Elders, none of whom are actually interested in knowing above quarreling.

You are a pompous gurt nob.

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I have always questioned academic intelligence.

My university lecturers had it, yet they frequently managed to show themselves up with any application of that knowledge in to the real world.

Just a thought.

True enough.

Personally I try never to get into serious arguments on here: No one is going to change their opinions and it won't change the truth (be I right or wrong).* Not that my area of expertise is really discussed here. Still, it's an interesting enough forum, with lots of interesting posters,and a fair number of fun posters. *And I have learnt a thing or two on here by listening.

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Francis Bacon was a scientist. And a propagandist. And utterly corrupt.

Welcome to the real world.

Well how would you feel if you had to supplement your political and scientific interests by grinding out a succession of plays for the popular theater, making do with the unstylish pseudonym of "Shakespeare"?

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