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dredwerker

Well Hotels Are Shooting Down In Price

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Rightmove

£949,950 down to £695,000 a bargain for 15 beds and its about the same as that penthouse on the Brighton Property ladder and not that far away.

14 August 2009

* Price changed: from '£750,000' to '£695,000'

16 October 2008

* Price changed: from '£895,000' to '£750,000' [Found by n/a]

02 October 2008

* Title changed: Lower Rock Gardens, Brighton Brighton, East Sussex, BN21PG [Found by n/a]

11 July 2008

* Price changed: from '£949,950' to '£895,000' [Found by n/a]

09 May 2008

* Initial entry found. [Found by n/a]

When you think about it commercial property like this must be quite a good indicator of the economy as you wont be able to hold onto it whilst its value is plummeting. You would need to pay in equity if you get below a certain LTV with less money coming in. This is a recipe for disaster for a newish hotel owner.

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You wot

The met said this was going to be a bumper hot summer (Under instruction from Brown to keep people from spending abroad)

Are you sure this is true and lets see the met try the same trick next year

God give me some global warming please else i'll freeze to death

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You wot

The met said this was going to be a bumper hot summer (Under instruction from Brown to keep people from spending abroad)

Are you sure this is true and lets see the met try the same trick next year

God give me some global warming please else i'll freeze to death

When I think about weather forecasters I just remember the 'great storm of 1987' Wikipedia

'Four or five days before the storm struck, forecasters had predicted bad weather on the following Thursday or Friday. By midweek, however, guidance from weather prediction models was somewhat equivocal. Instead of stormy weather over a considerable part of the UK, the models suggested that severe weather would reach no farther north than the English Channel and coastal parts of southern England. '

and particularly:

BBC meteorologist Michael Fish drew particular criticism for reporting several hours before the storm hit, seemingly flippantly:

Earlier on today, apparently, a woman rang the BBC and said she heard there was a hurricane on the way; well, if you're watching, don't worry, there isn't, but having said that, actually, the weather will become very windy, but most of the strong winds, incidentally, will be down over Spain and across into France.

Its very similar to the recession is over forecasting really :)

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Same up here in North Norfolk tourist coast - same 6+ bedroom B&Bs have been on the market for 2 years or more, slowly slipping south price-wise.

I suggested to the wife that we could buy one, and I would run it ably assisted by impressionable teenage Polish girls to fry the eggs, and sort out the rooms, but for some reason she did not buy it. There are also many more reasons why running a B&B is less attractive than it once was - long hours, ties you down in holiday times, fire regs and endless bureacracy etc etc. I guess the "I'm worth it" people are not up for the levels of service they would need to dish out to others to hook regular customers, they prefer to be served.

But converting a big old Edwardian B&B to flats or a large seaside home could be an option, cheaper than buying an equivalent house in all probability - especially as trying to get a commercial mortgage in this climate must be tough.

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I just wonder how long before these kind of businesses get margin calls.

I would love to buy something at £700k but I dont have £700k and even if I did I would want to pay £450k for it ;)

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Guest joeschmo

There is some "history" with this particular hotel in that it appeared on a TV "Hotel Nightmares" prog and was awarded a "worst hotel in britain" award or something similar.It has been done up since but never really recovered I think.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sa...y-21359479.html

The above is probably a fairer representation of the Brighton hotel market at that price (under offer)

Edited by joeschmo

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I just wonder how long before these kind of businesses get margin calls.

I would love to buy something at £700k but I dont have £700k and even if I did I would want to pay £450k for it ;)

I bought a three storey house near the Suffolk coast in 1986 for £102k.We ran it as a B&B for one season in conjunction with a small restaurant.Sold it in 1988 for £133k and kept half the garden as a plot.

The guy I sold it to converted it into 3 "luxury" flats and put them on at £145k each,which would have been about £60k a flat profit had he sold them.Before he could sell the market crashed and he rented them out.I saw them up for £295k each in 2007 but again he didn't sell any.Went past last week and they look like HB rents.

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Some reading for the weekend.

Cant sell my hotel (in Blackpool)

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth....html?t=1794785

Blimey I dont know whether its this one but £400k for 36 rooms You could live in a diff room for every day in a month and have friends over:

Winterbourne Hotel

22-30 Clarendon Road, Blackpool, Lancashire, FY1 6EF.

www.thewinterbournehotel.webs.com

+44 (0)1253 342 630

Priced At £400,000

A well established, 36 bedroom hotel in an excellent location, with good trade and fantastic potential to expand.

36 bedrooms, all en-suite, well maintained and freshly decorated.

The hotel can accommodate up to 77 guests and caters mainly for families and couples.

Great location in the centre of Blackpool, close to the Pleasure Beach and town centre.

Current turnover at £80,000 p/a (9 months trading on bed, breakfast and evening meal basis). Great potential for further expansion.

Large number of returning guests and deposits taken already as far ahead as Christmas and New Year 2009.

Brand new L2 fire alarm system recently installed.

Double glazed and centrally heated.

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Had my (non-chav) novelty-stag weekend in Blackpool back in 02. Loads of hen and stag parties there back then and I understand it will be as bad now and likely to get worse given that the groups cannot afford Tallin on Sleazyjet anymore. Blackpool is really just a rough old drinking haunt these days, full of fighting drunken chavs, litter, sleaze, rough old obese birds and so on. If that floats your boat then great, but think of the endless damage, vomit etc inside your hotel. Genteel victorian sea resort, popular with blue rinse grannies, it is not. Downmarket hellhole popular with chavs who are too poor to go to Benidorm, it is. Think Jeremy Kyle show by the sea and buy the hotel if that kind of thing excites you.

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I've stayed there, it's haunted.

There was little twin girls in the lift when I got in, and a manky old women in my bath tub.

Edited by mrfooty

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Blimey I dont know whether its this one but £400k for 36 rooms You could live in a diff room for every day in a month and have friends over:

Winterbourne Hotel

22-30 Clarendon Road, Blackpool, Lancashire, FY1 6EF.

www.thewinterbournehotel.webs.com

+44 (0)1253 342 630

Priced At £400,000

A well established, 36 bedroom hotel in an excellent location, with good trade and fantastic potential to expand.

36 bedrooms, all en-suite, well maintained and freshly decorated.

The hotel can accommodate up to 77 guests and caters mainly for families and couples.

Great location in the centre of Blackpool, close to the Pleasure Beach and town centre.

Current turnover at £80,000 p/a (9 months trading on bed, breakfast and evening meal basis). Great potential for further expansion.

Large number of returning guests and deposits taken already as far ahead as Christmas and New Year 2009.

Brand new L2 fire alarm system recently installed.

Double glazed and centrally heated.

lets see, 400K @ 8% = 32K interest alone.

turnover 80K = gross profit 48K

husband and wife need 20K to live and work full time

leaves 28K for delaps, insurance, staff, new sheets, food, fuel, advertising, computers, lawyers, accountants......nah.

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lets see, 400K @ 8% = 32K interest alone.

turnover 80K = gross profit 48K

husband and wife need 20K to live and work full time

leaves 28K for delaps, insurance, staff, new sheets, food, fuel, advertising, computers, lawyers, accountants......nah.

I wouldnt buy it but if you thought about that much space as a home in a seaside town. and also they want £700k for half the bedrooms in Brighton and they used to want a million.

Brighton is just as much Jeremy Kyle by the sea with some vegetarian restaurants and gaybars. Ok so it might be a tad more liberal but I dunno where the money is coming from.

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There is some "history" with this particular hotel in that it appeared on a TV "Hotel Nightmares" prog and was awarded a "worst hotel in britain" award or something similar.It has been done up since but never really recovered I think.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sa...y-21359479.html

The above is probably a fairer representation of the Brighton hotel market at that price (under offer)

I hadnt realised it was a problem hotel - I just saw it on twitter and propertybeed it.

v. propertybee - to find the cheapest price on a house so that you don't get mugged off:)

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I wouldnt buy it but if you thought about that much space as a home in a seaside town. and also they want £700k for half the bedrooms in Brighton and they used to want a million.

Brighton is just as much Jeremy Kyle by the sea with some vegetarian restaurants and gaybars. Ok so it might be a tad more liberal but I dunno where the money is coming from.

its the gay pound.

or half ounce in my case. and im not gay.

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Yeah but the thing is about keeping holiday makers in the UK doesn't mean they have to stay in hotels, camping wild isn't too bad , bar the lack of being able to wash which is why river sites are excellent.

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its the gay pound.

or half ounce in my case. and im not gay.

so the gay pound came from somewhere. so there are places that have no gays in and must be worse off. or are there more gay people nowadays ;)

I have lived in brighton for nigh on 40 years now and its only the last few years that houses have gone mad along with everything else.

Dont gay people have to earn money? Or is there a little gay cottage industry - not cottaging industry..

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so the gay pound came from somewhere. so there are places that have no gays in and must be worse off. or are there more gay people nowadays ;)

I have lived in brighton for nigh on 40 years now and its only the last few years that houses have gone mad along with everything else.

Dont gay people have to earn money? Or is there a little gay cottage industry - not cottaging industry..

All I know is that 2 of my lady customers have left their families, gone gay and go to Brighton regularly...never known what the attraction was myself...gay that is.

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The one in Brighton, if you spent 100k turning it into more of a boutiquey place, with maybe 8 rooms instead of 13 (the current ones look ok but small), and then got £150/night. Assume full occupancy Friday and Saturday night and zero the rest of the time you'd turn over £250k a year. Maybe more for room service and booze. Looks ok. So why am I not convinced....

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I would guess that the ridiculous prices paid for hotel property in a town like Brighton was partly due to the housing bubble. Why would a vendor sell to a hotelier for £400K, which is probably what the business is worth, when they could sell it to a property developer for £700K , who can turn it into luxury apartments by spending £200K and sell the lot for £1.2mill in a rising market.

The sums for the hotel business in that environment usually do not add up. Say you buy a property , do it up and create a 10 bed boutique hotel selling each room for £100 per night.

At 100% occupancy open for 365days per year the max T/O ex VAT would be £317K. Your business plan provides for occupancy of 65% and a T/O of £206,000.

Business rates, gas, electric, laundry, food costs, wages for 3 part time staff, insurance, marketing and all the other crap that you have to wade through running a small business all ad up.

If you are a cash buyer, maybe you can afford £750,000 to buy the business. If you are looking to borrow a large chunk of the money from a bank, you are likely to find that the vendors accounts do not stack up, as his books show he is only turning over £80,000 p/a

The reality is that without the corporate market, Sunday to Thursday will be a struggle to get it even half full except at peak season. Late rooms are great to offer late deals at say £70 per couple, but they want a 15% commission, so your revpar drops dramatically. In Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb except Valentines (when Bloo Loo and his boyfriends descend en masse...... he denies it too enthusiastically), the place will be a bit of a ghost town.

Many B&B hotel owners find that it is easier to shut in those quiter periods as the "lifestyle business" is actually a hard grind of long hours. Many smaller B&Bs trade up th the VAT threshold and no more as it is not worth their while...though they love those cash customers of course ;)

I reckon that the hotel market has further to fall, but only following the housing market down probably.

What tempts me is a freehold pub right now, but that is another story!

Edited by Hip to be bear

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The one in Brighton, if you spent 100k turning it into more of a boutiquey place, with maybe 8 rooms instead of 13 (the current ones look ok but small), and then got £150/night. Assume full occupancy Friday and Saturday night and zero the rest of the time you'd turn over £250k a year. Maybe more for room service and booze. Looks ok. So why am I not convinced....

£150/night for one thing :blink:

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£150/night for one thing :blink:

Mate, go look at hotels in Brighton. The top end charge far more than this and all the boutique types charge £150-£160 a night at the weekend. And it's damn hard to actually find a room there at the weekend that isn't in one of the godawful chain hotels (which, btw charge £120 a night+ themselves). Do some research.

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Mate, go look at hotels in Brighton. The top end charge far more than this and all the boutique types charge £150-£160 a night at the weekend. And it's damn hard to actually find a room there at the weekend that isn't in one of the godawful chain hotels (which, btw charge £120 a night+ themselves). Do some research.

I have, you can find plenty of okay ones with sea views for £100-120 a time...

Or you can pay up to £250 for one in the same street...

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I have, you can find plenty of okay ones with sea views for £100-120 a time...

Or you can pay up to £250 for one in the same street...

The "sea view" ones are either a long way down the promenade i.e. not walking distance or they are the big chains, most of the rooms of which are not sea views at all.

Don't get me wrong there are a few smaller family run places where you can get in for that sort of money but they are not boutiquey style and get booked up a long way in advance from my experience - i.e. try searching for availability at http://www.paskins.co.uk/

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