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xcojo

France And Germany Exit Recession

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But but how can this be, when France and Germany had such little QE?!?

the ECB didnt need QE....it could call on the governments that had a surplus.

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the ECB didnt need QE....it could call on the governments that had a surplus.

What was it that Pat Primer used to say about the DO NOTHING party?!? :lol:

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It's going to be a double dipper.

So it has been prophesised

doubledip.jpg VWbrand.jpg

BBC 'Red Arrow' branding is getting a little close to subliminal socialist branding from a previous era it seems

post-9973-1250159210_thumb.jpg

post-9973-1250160394.jpg

Edited by For no one

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you guys really need to seek out help.

the joy you take in bad news, and the way you get upset about good news is just sad.

germany and france achieving some growth is a good thing.

Wow, I'm really relieved that France and Germany have managed to pull themselves out of recession. It's fantastic news. I will be ordering a crate of bubbly and some bratwurst to celebrate. Who'd have thought that the real world could end up being so irrelevant?

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Guest Skinty
germany and france achieving some growth is a good thing.

You're right. It means that I now have another option for escaping from the UK if things get too bad here.

I don't know about France but Germany was always going to get out of the recession faster than Britain (assuming it has that is). Germany produces things unlike Britain and suffered because its customers ran into trouble. The UK ran into trouble because it ran out of credit and couldn't splurge money anymore. Germany doesn't have such a parasitic debt culture as us so now they can recover while we have to pay off massive debts that are still growing.

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Guest Skinty
Still at least they've all been proven completely and utterly wrong in their apocalyptic predictions :lol:

You do realise that the article was about France and Germany don't you?

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You're right. It means that I now have another option for escaping from the UK if things get too bad here.

I don't know about France but Germany was always going to get out of the recession faster than Britain (assuming it has that is). Germany produces things unlike Britain and suffered because its customers ran into trouble. The UK ran into trouble because it ran out of credit and couldn't splurge money anymore. Germany doesn't have such a parasitic debt culture as us so now they can recover while we have to pay off massive debts that are still growing.

if only they were recovering..china is falling back, and the clunkers scheme is about to end I beleive.

France? I gather its stimulus stimulus and more stimulus. pizza is around 12 euros plus wherever you go.

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I don't know about France but Germany was always going to get out of the recession faster than Britain (assuming it has that is). Germany produces things unlike Britain and suffered because its customers ran into trouble. The UK ran into trouble because it ran out of credit and couldn't splurge money anymore. Germany doesn't have such a parasitic debt culture as us so now they can recover while we have to pay off massive debts that are still growing.

This is an inventory- and stimulus-led bounce. It'll be interesting to see how and if it can be sustained.

Changing trade patterns would be a clue.

You do realise that the article was about France and Germany don't you?

I don't think poor xcojo realises much about anything! :lol:

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the ECB didnt need QE....it could call on the governments that had a surplus.
Last Wednesday, the European Central Bank injected €442 billion (£377 billion) of new cash into the euro money markets. This was the biggest long-term lending operation in the history of central banking and was equivalent to half the Fed’s entire monetary expansion in the past 18 months.
However, if we look at the facts, the transatlantic difference is less clear. In fact, the ECB is printing money even faster than the Fed is.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle6597813.ece

Edited by BernieT

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Funnily enough I spotted this on the BBC news behind a presenter a few days ago with the word 'recession' on the rising part of the red arrow...subliminal messages?

_46056852_arrow_up_flat_bb.gif

EDIT: Did you know that - or were you suggesting they should?

EDIT2: This was more like it actually - it had a house in it too...but it had the word 'recession'.

_46061921_jex_407524_de27-1.jpg

No I haven't seen that before. About jolly time though! I feel better after seeing that. Faith in the BBC restored somewhat.

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Agreed, you'll only find people talking pleasure in other peoples misery here.

That's right. The hive that is the bear mind is one. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Still at least they've all been proven completely and utterly wrong in their apocalyptic predictions :lol:

I never expected an apocalypse but I did open my mind to the points of view of those that did (do?) You might try opening yours to possibilities other than those that suit you. Burying your head in sand will only make me (and quite a few others on this forum) happier; it's unlikely to serve you well.

For what it's worth, I think you are the one hoping for misery for others. After all, high house prices are one of the major factors behind increasing rates of personal bankruptcy. People can't afford their own home without taking on huge debt, which is bad. Or don't you agree?

Edited by sdc395

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Guest Skinty

My own personal belief is that here in the UK we're still only half way through the house price crash. Look at the graph on the front of HPC and compare the spare to the previous booms. Although they are much smaller in scale if you look closely they all have the same features. Before the peak there is a really sharp pull up to a false summit, followed by an easing off onto a short plateau before rising again and crashing. After the bubble has burst there's a levelling off just as you hit the the trend line (where we are now) before further falls below it.

Looking back to previous recessions, even though the sharpest drops take a short time, the effect stays for a long time afterwards because confidence is shattered. So even when we do reach the bottom, it will be a while before confidence really properly returns and people feel safe in their jobs.

Of course there is also the issue of this possibly being a depression for the UK and the US instead of yet another recession; the stupid amounts of debt that have been taken on that need to be paid back, the lack of job security, the idea of a lost decade, work moving east etc.

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thank you very much and welcome.

I think the key words here may be LENDING rather than BUYING.

the ECB is lending money.

saying that....who really knows exactyl what any of them are doing.

actually they are buying... but we can call it lending if you like...

The ECB Council debated for months about QE, the modern equivalent of printing money since it involves the central bank creating money out of thin air by signing computer-generated promissory notes and then distributing these around the commercial banking system by using them to buy up government bonds.
Unlike the Fed and the Bank of England, which only accept AAA public bonds as collateral for their lending operations, the ECB now lends against low-rated mortgage bonds, commercial loan books and other dubious assets that the markets would treat as toxic

doesn't sound too promising...

Edited by BernieT

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actually they are buying... but we can call it lending if you like...

doesn't sound too promising...

id rather call it what it is.

but the article is drawing conclusions that are, like the accusations that the BoE and the Fed are buying new bonds days after the issue. the truth is not known, although now you have drawn my attention to the article, I am inclined to doubt .

"the Fed has “monetised†roughly $1 trillion of US Government debt since 2007, if we combine its Treasury and agency bond buying. Meanwhile, the ECB has lent $1.5 trillion to the euro-area banks. But what have the euroland banks done with this new money? They have lent most of it straight to their governments. Indeed, the governments in Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain and Austria would long-since have gone bust had it not been for the willingness of the commercial banks in these struggling economies to buy unlimited quantities of government bonds with money borrowed from the ECB. And these bond purchases have, in turn, been used as collateral for more ECB borrowings, which could be used to buy more government bonds."

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Given this news, and the fact that house prices are relatively stable in France and Germany, why did some of you numpties go and buy a property in the UK?

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if only they were recovering..china is falling back, and the clunkers scheme is about to end I beleive.

France? I gather its stimulus stimulus and more stimulus. pizza is around 12 euros plus wherever you go.

The trick is to order the "menu du jour" and get entrée, main course (ie. the pizza) plus dessert for 16€ B)

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The trick is to order the "menu du jour" and get entrée, main course (ie. the pizza) plus dessert for 16€ B)

cheapskate....I usually like the look of the 30euro one!

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I note that xcojo has opted to remain silent rather than respond to the questions asked. Sadly, this seems to be about the best response any bull can offer. Surely there are some intelligent bulls out there that can actually make their case rather than trolling. No?

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Agreed, you'll only find people talking pleasure in other peoples misery here.

Still at least they've all been proven completely and utterly wrong in their apocalyptic predictions :lol:

Except of course we haven't. Knock 25% off property prices and adding 3% back on is not being wrong. Similarly with the economy. Growth in France and Germany was miniscule. Down 7% up .3% isn't good you know. Similarly, those 2.4m people claiming benefit may be a bit peed off.

Anyway, I feel conned. I thought we were best placed to see out the recession?

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France? I gather its stimulus stimulus and more stimulus. pizza is around 12 euros plus wherever you go.

Odd, my sister is there right now and tells me that things are much cheaper than in the UK.

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