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Garry AKA Pod

The Nhs Would Kill Prof Stephen Hawkins Apparently

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F*cking morons!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8198084.stm

As the US healthcare debate hots up during Congress's summer recess, anti-reform campaigners have been directing criticisms across the Atlantic at the UK healthcare system.

The most recent row erupted after an editorial at the Investors Business Daily (IBD) launched an attack on the British National Health Service (NHS), as a warning against what could happen if the US adopted such a model.

"The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof are legendary," the article said. "The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror movie script."

The article's author went on to assert that "people such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

As the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Jay Bookman quickly pointed out, Prof Hawking was born in the UK, and has lived and worked there for his entire life.

Basic stupidity

Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein said the IBD article was an example of conservatives "lying" about healthcare.

"It's not just that they didn't know that Stephen Hawking was born in England. It's that the underlying point was wrong, as you'll note from the continued existence of Stephen Hawking. They didn't choose an unfortunate example for an accurate point. They simply lied."

Edit: I'm a moron for getting his name wrong!

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Hawking can talk the talk, be he can’t walk the walk.

:lol:

I don't understand why the yankies hate socialised medicine so much. It's the only thing the UK has done that hasn't completely fallen over, which says a lot about it. Imagine breaking your arm, going into hospital and being presented with a bill at the end?

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:lol:

I don't understand why the yankies hate socialised medicine so much. It's the only thing the UK has done that hasn't completely fallen over, which says a lot about it. Imagine breaking your arm, going into hospital and being presented with a bill at the end?

Its worse than that though isn't it if you can't afford to pay that bill.

Imagine worrying about what would happen to you and your family if you broke your arm.

The US is filled with people nursing varying illness and injuries and not doing anything about them.

Hate your boss's abusive behaviour? I'm afraid you have to stay if one of your kids is ill.

Its the wider evils of it, not just pulling out your credit card that is the problem.

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Actually there are two rotten arguments that I find particularly irritating in this attack on the NHS:

1) That the NHS rations care by costs - if your treatment is expensive, you don't get it. This is not true. The NHS rations care by cost-effectiveness - we don't have an inexhaustible budget for state care, and so the NHS tries to spend the money where it will do most good. It probably gets it wrong a lot of the time, but it tries. In the US they also have rationing by cost - if you can't afford health insurance then hard luck, you get a standard of care which even its toughest domestic critics would not recognise in the NHS.

The US also rations health care by cost - and in a far more brutal fashion than in the UK

2) That if the NHS won't treat you, all you can do is die. No, you have the same choice in the UK as you have in the US - if you are rich. You can pay for private treatment - either here or in Europe or you can go the US and pay there. We even have private health insurance here, for those who want to pay for it. The rich in the Land of Socialised Medicine still have all the choices they have in the Land of the Free - the difference is that they have to pay to help give the poor a decent standard of healthcare too. But the standard of care is good enough so that the rich David Cameron found the NHS gave a good enough standard of care to his severely damaged child - and kept him alive for as long as was humanly possible. Contrary to the smears and sneers of the Republican propaganda machine.

My favourite anti-NHS jibe was from a women somewhere deep in the Republican hinterland who said, "Socialised Medicine is the reason why you are all cowards." Presumably this is because we wouldn't join the Yanks in Iraq and Afghanistan, and didn't understand the pain of having bombs go off in our cities. Have you spotted the flaw in that argument yet? And have you remembered that it was the Yanks who funded the bombs in our cities? And even that after the Yanks used bases on British soil to bomb Libya, the Yankee tourists stayed away in droves because they were afraid that the Libyans might bomb the UK in retaliation?

But at its simplest, all you have to do is to tell them that if they don't like the institutions that a nationally-funded health care would create, then they can just use different ones. No one is going to stop rich Americans from paying for all the health care they can afford.

db

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I despise the Nhs almost as much as the US system.

The NHS is shit. I fully expect it to collapse if swine flu is even remotely like a pandemic this winter.

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The NHS is shit. I fully expect it to collapse if swine flu is even remotely like a pandemic this winter.

Swine flu is already a pandemic, you ******ing idiot.

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It like the war we all KNOW its about $'s

$1 out of ever $3 given to an HMO in the USA gos in PROFIT

that pays for a lot of right wing hummm Think Tanks

who come up with crap like this.

"Greed is good, so kill the poor, in fact kill any one who's out of CASH"

the US system is EVIL, we in the UK live longer and it costs 1/2 that of the USA.

I say let the buggers kill them self's off if there to dumb to make the system better.

And we ALL know just what the FREE MARKET MEANS

the NHS saved my LIFE! cost to me £30

if i was in the USA I would be DEAD!!!

so feck your system of rich live poor die!!!

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Swine flu is already a pandemic, you ******ing idiot.

I'm talking about a proper pandemic with tens of thousands requiring hospital beds.

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Guest AuntJess
Swine flu is already a pandemic, you ******ing idiot.

I find it interesting that this govt. has bought enough Tamiflu to dose half this country - a drug not fully tested and which has side effects worse than the flu - yet continues to count pennies in other areas.

As to the comment made earlier about the NHS supporting the poor: Very commendable: but it also pays for economic migrants as well as those to whom the idea of working for a living - and making a contribution to the pot - is an abomination.

It cannot continue to do so, with the result that most of us will be paying twice - NICs and privately - if we can scrape together the money. A friend of mine has just spent HALF her savings on an op. which she feared to have in a local NHS hospital, as it has a bad reputation.

The NHS is in its death throes - as a health provision for everyone.

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I find it interesting that this govt. has bought enough Tamiflu to dose half this country - a drug not fully tested and which has side effects worse than the flu - yet continues to count pennies in other areas.

As to the copmmen made ewarlier about th NHS supporint the poor. Very commendable: but it also pays for economic migrants as well as those to whom the idea of working for a living - and making a contribution to the pot - is an abomination.

The side effects of tamiflu are serious, but compared to a serious pandemic, it would be relatively trivial. Chemotherapy is extremely dangerous, however it is prudent in many cases, unfortunately. That tamiflu has been abused is what happens when the system is controlled by people with qualifications solely in the arts and some doctors concerned with how to make thier lives easier.

The thinking is that the economic implications of a 1917 style pandemic would be far more crippling now that in the 60's or 50's, as the economy is far more complex. Once trackers stop working, the country starts to ground to a halt. The telecommunications system being undermanned would cripple the economy now is a way that would not have happened in previous decades, therefore having measures in place is prudent. I make savings in some areas, but pay for insurance, this is comparable.

On a side issue, people who make the effort to leave their country behind and start a new life abroad are unliely to be the sames ones who then stop at teh thought of doing a days work. I imagine they are contributing to the economy. I have a lot of time for the arguement that they are stopping the country having to bother with seriously investing in their own youth, but for me, that is a seperate issue.

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It cannot continue to do so, with the result that most of us will be paying twice - NICs and privately - if we can scrape together the money. A friend of mine has just spent HALF her savings on an op. which she feared to have in a local NHS hospital, as it has a bad reputation.

That makes no sense.

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I'm talking about a proper pandemic with tens of thousands requiring hospital beds.

The USA would run out of hospital beds in the same way the UK would. The only difference is that in the UK, beds would be allocated to those who need them the most. In the US, they would be allocated to those who can pay the most.

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:lol:

I don't understand why the yankies hate socialised medicine so much. It's the only thing the UK has done that hasn't completely fallen over, which says a lot about it. Imagine breaking your arm, going into hospital and being presented with a bill at the end?

I'm really struggling to get my head round this, to be quite honest. I cannot for the life of me see why the Americans have such a big problem with this. They carp about it being the first steps to a country akin to the USSR but I fail to see the connection, to be honest.

Do the yanks who are objecting to this have even the slightest idea of what image of their Country is being projected abroad when we see pictures of hundreds of ill Americans being treated en-mass by charities in huge soprts stadia, as was on Newsnight last night?

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Guest X-QUORK
Swine flu is already a pandemic, you ******ing idiot.

Lol...what a shit for brains.

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I despise the Nhs almost as much as the US system.

You'll have opted out then, one would presume, and carry a card saying "NO NHS TREATMENT" if you are even in an accident?

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To add to this. What exactly is our government doing about the outright lies which are being spouted by US politicians and commentators on this issue. The usual, f*ck all, one would presume!

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