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HovelinHove

Effective Campaign Of Civil Disobedience

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MODs please keep here if it proves popular as it is a subject close to many HPCers hearts.

Whining on an internet forum, making angry YOUTUBE videos, even shouting at politicians at public gatherings has no effect. If anything it vents the frustration that could otherwise be directed in a way that has an effect.

People haven't got the balls to do what the French do and take to the streets, so what can we do in this country that will gain universal support, and be effective?

I am asking this because I think it's time someone did something and some of the brightest, 'most awake' people I know contribute to this forum, so to have their input would be enourmously helpful. There are several steps to making this successful:

1. An idea that will capture the public imagination and current mood of disenfranchisement.

2. An idea that is simple, that everyone can take part in with little personal risk, but will hurt the politicians and their masters, the bankers.

3. (This would be for later) a viral internet campaign which will be hard to suppress using current terrorism laws etc and other logistical issues. Timing is important too...people are waddling along in the spring bounce delusional phase at the moment, a campaign like this would not gain much support until anger starts to rise again. There would also have to be some clearly defined demands associated with a positive outcome.

For now I want to focus on 1 and 2. Many on here are already acting against the system by not buying property and not getting into massive debt for useless tat, and it is something along these lines that will be most effective. Workers can't strike any more, but spenders, or rather debt payers can.

An idea might look like this:

Everyone withholds one month of mortgage repayment

or

On a predefined day, everyone who supports the campaign phones in sick for one day...a national strike, but no union or legal involvement. Of course you would need millions to support it, but I think the time is coming where there are enough people who feel sufficiently frustrated with our politicians to do something like this.

For me the goal would have to be a new constituion, one in which the rich and powerful are unable to influence and manipulate. Also there would have to be an element of retribution for the bankers...a one of 'masters off the universe tax', and a change to the regulatory system that links long term growth to bonuses.

Even if you don't have an idea, write a comment if you think that something like this should and could be done, or if you think it wouldn't work, why not...what would work?

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HovelInHove:

It's a good idea but my problem with it is that the things that I believe are the worst cause of our current economic malaise are subtle and abstract in the extreme:

I believe that there are fundamental flaws in our monetary system which mean that an economy can only have two speeds. (Full steam ahead or full reverse).

Since not even economists or commentators on this forum can agree on the causes and solutions, what hope is there of a broad-based popular movement agreeing?

Otherwise, it's just random outpourings of anger with no coherent demands, and will be easily bought off with a few cosmetic changes to the odd parliamentary bill.

I would love to see nationwide strikes in support of monetary reform. Not holding my breath though.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
MODs please keep here if it proves popular as it is a subject close to many HPCers hearts.

Whining on an internet forum, making angry YOUTUBE videos, even shouting at politicians at public gatherings has no effect. If anything it vents the frustration that could otherwise be directed in a way that has an effect.

People haven't got the balls to do what the French do and take to the streets, so what can we do in this country that will gain universal support, and be effective?

I am asking this because I think it's time someone did something and some of the brightest, 'most awake' people I know contribute to this forum, so to have their input would be enourmously helpful. There are several steps to making this successful:

1. An idea that will capture the public imagination and current mood of disenfranchisement.

2. An idea that is simple, that everyone can take part in with little personal risk, but will hurt the politicians and their masters, the bankers.

3. (This would be for later) a viral internet campaign which will be hard to suppress using current terrorism laws etc and other logistical issues. Timing is important too...people are waddling along in the spring bounce delusional phase at the moment, a campaign like this would not gain much support until anger starts to rise again. There would also have to be some clearly defined demands associated with a positive outcome.

For now I want to focus on 1 and 2. Many on here are already acting against the system by not buying property and not getting into massive debt for useless tat, and it is something along these lines that will be most effective. Workers can't strike any more, but spenders, or rather debt payers can.

An idea might look like this:

Everyone withholds one month of mortgage repayment

or

On a predefined day, everyone who supports the campaign phones in sick for one day...a national strike, but no union or legal involvement. Of course you would need millions to support it, but I think the time is coming where there are enough people who feel sufficiently frustrated with our politicians to do something like this.

For me the goal would have to be a new constituion, one in which the rich and powerful are unable to influence and manipulate. Also there would have to be an element of retribution for the bankers...a one of 'masters off the universe tax', and a change to the regulatory system that links long term growth to bonuses.

Even if you don't have an idea, write a comment if you think that something like this should and could be done, or if you think it wouldn't work, why not...what would work?

Don't borrow any money.

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Don't spend, do the exact opposite of whatever it is that the government would like you to do but can't force you to do.

Most of us on here are probably already taking that approach.

Exactly, so an idea is needed that everyone else will do. A series of national sickies does it for me as there is nothing employers can do.

I also agree that what to do if such a campaign were successful is an even bigger problem, but it's got to be better than seeing these pigs taking the PI55 out of us.

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Don't spend, do the exact opposite of whatever it is that the government would like you to do but can't force you to do.

Most of us on here are probably already taking that approach.

+1. Especially on government-sponsored schemes like car scrappage.

And keep your money away from the government. Focus on that tax rebate on what you earn, and keep your assets in the private sector and away from banks that are doing the government's bidding.

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Exactly, so an idea is needed that everyone else will do. A series of national sickies does it for me as there is nothing employers can do.

Why? Is your employer to blame?

Mine isn't, and I'm not taking part in any action to damage the innocent.

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MODs please keep here if it proves popular as it is a subject close to many HPCers hearts.

Whining on an internet forum, making angry YOUTUBE videos, even shouting at politicians at public gatherings has no effect. If anything it vents the frustration that could otherwise be directed in a way that has an effect.

People haven't got the balls to do what the French do and take to the streets, so what can we do in this country that will gain universal support, and be effective?

I am asking this because I think it's time someone did something and some of the brightest, 'most awake' people I know contribute to this forum, so to have their input would be enourmously helpful. There are several steps to making this successful:

1. An idea that will capture the public imagination and current mood of disenfranchisement.

2. An idea that is simple, that everyone can take part in with little personal risk, but will hurt the politicians and their masters, the bankers.

3. (This would be for later) a viral internet campaign which will be hard to suppress using current terrorism laws etc and other logistical issues. Timing is important too...people are waddling along in the spring bounce delusional phase at the moment, a campaign like this would not gain much support until anger starts to rise again. There would also have to be some clearly defined demands associated with a positive outcome.

For now I want to focus on 1 and 2. Many on here are already acting against the system by not buying property and not getting into massive debt for useless tat, and it is something along these lines that will be most effective. Workers can't strike any more, but spenders, or rather debt payers can.

An idea might look like this:

Everyone withholds one month of mortgage repayment

or

On a predefined day, everyone who supports the campaign phones in sick for one day...a national strike, but no union or legal involvement. Of course you would need millions to support it, but I think the time is coming where there are enough people who feel sufficiently frustrated with our politicians to do something like this.

For me the goal would have to be a new constituion, one in which the rich and powerful are unable to influence and manipulate. Also there would have to be an element of retribution for the bankers...a one of 'masters off the universe tax', and a change to the regulatory system that links long term growth to bonuses.

Even if you don't have an idea, write a comment if you think that something like this should and could be done, or if you think it wouldn't work, why not...what would work?

Everyone dresses up in V for vendeta costumes and hands out copies of the film to passers by in every high street

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Why? Is your employer to blame?

Mine isn't, and I'm not taking part in any action to damage the innocent.

Yes, my employer is a part of supporting this system. It is run by people who get paid far too much and who lobby the government in a way that undermines democracy. Large corporate or government employers would be the main focus of such an action, however, for it to truly work, everyone needs to be woken up, and that sometimes means prodding the comfortable 'innocent' who are all to happy to stand by and watch injustice as long as they themselves have all they want/need. So I question how 'innocent' most employers are.

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Don't borrow any money.

Given that money lent is leveraged on other's savings surely not saving, in a bank, is 25 times (or whatever the leverage rate is) more hurtful. Let's face it a run on the banks is pretty much devastating though I'm not sure how you could (legally) orchestrate that.

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So I question how 'innocent' most employers are.

Ah, yes. The mentality that questions how 'innocent' most [jews|blacks|arabs|whatever] are. Or in our times with Harfwit spouting crap, how 'innocent' most men are.

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Guest UK Debt Slave
MODs please keep here if it proves popular as it is a subject close to many HPCers hearts.

Whining on an internet forum, making angry YOUTUBE videos, even shouting at politicians at public gatherings has no effect. If anything it vents the frustration that could otherwise be directed in a way that has an effect.

People haven't got the balls to do what the French do and take to the streets, so what can we do in this country that will gain universal support, and be effective?

I am asking this because I think it's time someone did something and some of the brightest, 'most awake' people I know contribute to this forum, so to have their input would be enourmously helpful. There are several steps to making this successful:

1. An idea that will capture the public imagination and current mood of disenfranchisement.

2. An idea that is simple, that everyone can take part in with little personal risk, but will hurt the politicians and their masters, the bankers.

3. (This would be for later) a viral internet campaign which will be hard to suppress using current terrorism laws etc and other logistical issues. Timing is important too...people are waddling along in the spring bounce delusional phase at the moment, a campaign like this would not gain much support until anger starts to rise again. There would also have to be some clearly defined demands associated with a positive outcome.

For now I want to focus on 1 and 2. Many on here are already acting against the system by not buying property and not getting into massive debt for useless tat, and it is something along these lines that will be most effective. Workers can't strike any more, but spenders, or rather debt payers can.

An idea might look like this:

Everyone withholds one month of mortgage repayment

or

On a predefined day, everyone who supports the campaign phones in sick for one day...a national strike, but no union or legal involvement. Of course you would need millions to support it, but I think the time is coming where there are enough people who feel sufficiently frustrated with our politicians to do something like this.

For me the goal would have to be a new constituion, one in which the rich and powerful are unable to influence and manipulate. Also there would have to be an element of retribution for the bankers...a one of 'masters off the universe tax', and a change to the regulatory system that links long term growth to bonuses.

Even if you don't have an idea, write a comment if you think that something like this should and could be done, or if you think it wouldn't work, why not...what would work?

About a year ago, I suggested a similar thing on HPC

It got totally ridiculed.

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If you're going to protest, you can't just do it to show you're "mad as hell and not going to take it any more".

You need to have a concrete demand, so that you can judge when your demand has or has not been met.

To the OP: What demand would your protest be in support of?

Edit: Just re-read the OP. So it's a demand for a new constitution. Well I think defining specific points of your proposed constitution will be the difficulty. How would you legislate for a political structure that cannot be influenced by "the powerful" IE those who by definition can influence things?

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Guest Skinty

It has to be something easy and of low financial and personal cost. It cannot be co-ordinated either.

If you all have to do something on a single day then it won't work if it costs anything to do. Most people won't believe that enough other people will be joining in so they will just continue on with their lives as normal.

It's probably better to rely on a number of ideas as well to attract the numbers. And once you get one thing working successfuly you can biuld upon it. Ideas that actually help the person anyway, such as paying off debt, waiting for house prices to drop more.

It's all to do with reaching a critical threshold. For example, if enough people hooted their cars when driving outside Westminster then other drivers would join in and the whole thing would escalate. So it's as much about getting the publicity of something that's already happening as getting it started in the first place.

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For example, if enough people hooted their cars when driving outside Westminster then other drivers would join in and the whole thing would escalate. So it's as much about getting the publicity of something that's already happening as getting it started in the first place.

That's actually got the makings of a good idea.

It might be a bit limited in terms of how many people regually pass Westminster. Perhaps it could also cover town halls? Perhaps people should just all sound their horns all the time?

To be honest, I think we are closer to the end of apathy than people think. The public is already waking up and getting angry. When the pain starts to spead, people will already know why and will be ready to stand up.

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Yes, my employer is a part of supporting this system. It is run by people who get paid far too much and who lobby the government in a way that undermines democracy. Large corporate or government employers would be the main focus of such an action, however, for it to truly work, everyone needs to be woken up, and that sometimes means prodding the comfortable 'innocent' who are all to happy to stand by and watch injustice as long as they themselves have all they want/need. So I question how 'innocent' most employers are.

In that case consider whether the action you propose is likely to have sufficient impact on employers that down the line they lay off innocent staff.

I appreciate your feelings and I'm sure you don't see it this way. At first sight you seem to be advocating a world where there is no government, no banking, and people's lives are run by the sudden appearance of mobs organised on the internet. If this seems an extreme interpretation it might be worth clarifying why your proposal does not amount to this.

Also, you seem willing to invite some unspecified other to lead a revolt and give them carte blanche to decide the objectives of said revolt. I prefer to know what the "clearly defined demands" will turn out to be.

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For me the goal would have to be a new constituion, one in which the rich and powerful are unable to influence and manipulate. Also there would have to be an element of retribution for the bankers...a one of 'masters off the universe tax', and a change to the regulatory system that links long term growth to bonuses.

This is far too abstract and complicated. Some people would only agree with parts of it, many people wouldn't understand it and almost nobody would do anything in support of it.

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... so what can we do in this country that will gain universal support, and be effective?

I think what you're dreaming about is some sort of mob rule, led by unelected and unapproved bullyboys, which will do things that you, HH, are particularly keen on.

Should anything 'have universal support', then some or all political parties will include it in their manifestos. That's what political parties do, otherwise they don't get people voting for them. If existing parties don't take up the idea, then a newly created one will.

In any case, how do you think you're going to find any subject on Earth that you'd get 'universal support' for?

However much you dislike the current political system, any alternative that I've ever heard of is infinitely worse. Within just a few months, we're all going to have the power to make or break politicians and their parties. Electors - not mobs - have the power to do this.

You come over as a frustrated individual, feeling powerless and suffering from a massive inferiority complex. Have you, by any chance, just been sacked from your job with a local authority run by a political party you hate? Or, is there another reason for your desperate cry for help?

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