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Mega

Chevy Volt.......no Go

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It was their best chance but like tye article says, other manufacturers are in on the game with various forms of hybrids and battery electrics - like the Nissan Leaf hatchback battery electric car. The engineer was wrong about the Volt simply being bail-out bait, since it was being developed well before the car market collapsed even though GM itself was already unwell.

The concept of the Volt is, ironically, probably the way a lot of future cars will be - a 'range extender hybrid' - i.e a plug-in battery electric car with an engine driven generator to recharge the batteries when they run low.

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Hi B

Yes agreed, i hear that if the Volt has a low battery & the engine kicks in to gen-power it still not enough to pull up a steep ish hill. Lots of problems. I think you are going to be hearing a lot about "Flybrids"........designed for F1 its a carbon flywheel spinning at Turbo speeds in a vacum.

A eletric hybrid can recover 45% of engery, a flybrid can recover 65% plus no battery pack!

Coupled to a small 3 pot engine......& a CVT gearbox, this will quickly become the motoring mass car.

BTW He also tells me that they think MINI is a busted flush now, BMW are already looing at using (soon to be) spare production @ Oxford. While some think they bring back "Truimph" its far more likely to be a "MAXI". Mid size between at Mini & a BMW.......Torsen bar rear end, light weight lots of cutting edge stuff, but if you want speed.....buy a BMW.

Mike

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Electrics cars and hybrids make no sense whilst petrol is still so cheap.

When petrol starts running towards £10 a litre then these hugely complex hybrids will have their day as it will make sense to pay the extra to buy and repair them because of the petrol saving.

Would anybody who is allowed out by themself buy a 5 year old Prius?

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Electrics cars and hybrids make no sense whilst petrol is still so cheap.

When petrol starts running towards £10 a litre then these hugely complex hybrids will have their day as it will make sense to pay the extra to buy and repair them because of the petrol saving.

Would anybody who is allowed out by themself buy a 5 year old Prius?

Quite a few cabbies use them here. Very, very, very reliable over very long mileages, so they tell me. So maybe they're not so dumb. Cabbies are very concerned by overall costs, not just fuel consumption.

But no, I wouldn't buy one, because it's not a plugin which is the format that makes sense for people who drive to work. I might, however, get the next one, which will be a plugin.

I am allowed out by myself most days.

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Quite a few cabbies use them here. Very, very, very reliable over very long mileages, so they tell me. So maybe they're not so dumb. Cabbies are very concerned by overall costs, not just fuel consumption.

But no, I wouldn't buy one, because it's not a plugin which is the format that makes sense for people who drive to work. I might, however, get the next one, which will be a plugin.

I am allowed out by myself most days.

Where are you based. Because in London the only Prius I see are leased ones on the larger fleets where clients want to look eco friendly. And they are a piece of crap. So uncomfortable in the back, stability at any sort of speed is appalling, put three passengers and a driver in and the buses are faster. Economy is also no better than a standard diesel Focus. The interiors are also falling apart on the ones on the circuit. Terrible, terrible things. I prefer the S Class to ride in the back of (obviously), God I even prefer the ancient Sharan or those Fiat Platypus things that were on the City circuit to a Prius.

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Where are you based. Because in London the only Prius I see are leased ones on the larger fleets where clients want to look eco friendly. And they are a piece of crap. So uncomfortable in the back, stability at any sort of speed is appalling, put three passengers and a driver in and the buses are faster. Economy is also no better than a standard diesel Focus. The interiors are also falling apart on the ones on the circuit. Terrible, terrible things. I prefer the S Class to ride in the back of (obviously), God I even prefer the ancient Sharan or those Fiat Platypus things that were on the City circuit to a Prius.

Geneva.

I was in a Prius cab the other day, it was OK, but obviously not like a Merc. Nice and quiet, I noticed.

You can't drive fast here apart from in the country, so speed/stability not an issue. Traffic lights everywhere, lots of stop/start, petrol cheaper than diesel, generally good hybrid conditions IOW. I don't know if the cabbies get some tax incentive or other to use them, I didn't ask him that.

He did say they had a very strong rep for reliability, as I mentioned - he'd done about 80k kilometres so far and hadn't had any trouble. That's nothing, but he knew others who'd done serious cab mileages with no trouble.

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How enviornmentally friendly are the logistics and materials required for the production of these hybrids?
Most of the materials are the same as in a conventional car except the hybrid has electric an motor(s) and a battery pack - usually lithium-ion.

An advanced pure electric car powered by a pair of wheel-hub motor/regen units has to have a battery pack and associated electronics, but think of what it doesn't need: - Engine (with all its ancillaries), clutch /gearbox /differential, driveshafts, radiator, exhaust system, fuel tank

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So GM are going to launch the Volt. electric car with a range of 40 miles on a tankful of electrons! It does 230 mpg (US of course) but what's that in terms of batteries - 230 miles per 100kg per full charge?

If one of the world's largest car companies can't come up with a better vehicle than 40 miles for $40,000 then I think we can safely say electric cars are a non-runner for the world's climate!

No doubt there'll be a line of actors waiting to buy one of these sh!t mobiles.

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Electric cars are a waste of time unless you can generate the electricity from renewable sources. Otherwise, it just shifts the problem somewhere else.

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So GM are going to launch the Volt. electric car with a range of 40 miles on a tankful of electrons! It does 230 mpg (US of course) but what's that in terms of batteries - 230 miles per 100kg per full charge?

If one of the world's largest car companies can't come up with a better vehicle than 40 miles for $40,000 then I think we can safely say electric cars are a non-runner for the world's climate!

No doubt there'll be a line of actors waiting to buy one of these sh!t mobiles.

I wouldn't mind but there are home enthusiasts doing better and cheaper on-off conversion jobs.

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So GM are going to launch the Volt. electric car with a range of 40 miles on a tankful of electrons! It does 230 mpg (US of course) but what's that in terms of batteries - 230 miles per 100kg per full charge?

If one of the world's largest car companies can't come up with a better vehicle than 40 miles for $40,000 then I think we can safely say electric cars are a non-runner for the world's climate!

No doubt there'll be a line of actors waiting to buy one of these sh!t mobiles.

A charming cocktail of ignorance and homophobia. The 40 mile range is on batteries only. The range of the hybrid system is 640 miles.

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Electric cars are a waste of time unless you can generate the electricity from renewable sources. Otherwise, it just shifts the problem somewhere else.

Not entirely true - as SOME electricity is generated from renewables.

An electric car IS cleaner than a ICE car over its lifetime - but of course is is not totally 'clean'.

Renault / Nissan will be at the Franfurt Motor show with an entirely electric vehicle line up. No ICE on display.

The cars will be as cheap to buy as ICE cars, and cheaper to run.

Of course we are not all going to go out and immeditaley buy an EV. Just as everyone didnt go out an buy a hybrid. It was take years (decades) before even 10% of cars on the road are EV.

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Electric cars are a waste of time unless you can generate the electricity from renewable sources. Otherwise, it just shifts the problem somewhere else.

We have had this debate before. But electric cars are more efficient to the wheels. Modern permanent magnet motors can achieve 70-80% efficiency over a wide speed/torque curve.

ICE's are only really only efficient approaching maximum power, and rarely achieve more than 15% efficiency. Power stations are also more efficient even taking into account transmission losses over the grid and so on.

However the big let down for EC's is the battery admittedly. EC's (well all vehicles) will all have to become smaller, lighter and slower.

Halve the speed and you quarter the power requirement.

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I wouldn't mind but there are home enthusiasts doing better and cheaper on-off conversion jobs.

Prius's have been retrofitted with battery packs giving 30 - 50 miles range on batteries alone.

Charged up overnight on cheap rate electric these would cover most daily journeys

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We have had this debate before. But electric cars are more efficient to the wheels. Modern permanent magnet motors can achieve 70-80% efficiency over a wide speed/torque curve.

But what you gain in efficiency, you lose in energy conversion. Transforming fossil fuels into electricity and then charging a battery is lossy.

ICE's are only really only efficient approaching maximum power, and rarely achieve more than 15% efficiency. Power stations are also more efficient even taking into account transmission losses over the grid and so on.

More fuel to the argument that we should decentralise power generation and ignore NIMBYs who don't want "windmills" in their view. They might even queue up to demand windmills if the government's proposed new property "niceness" tax gets rammed through.

However the big let down for EC's is the battery admittedly. EC's (well all vehicles) will all have to become smaller, lighter and slower.

There are research projects being carried out by large oil companies into fuel cell technology. I have no doubt that when the technology is ripe enough to exploit, it will be.

Halve the speed and you quarter the power requirement.

True, but I can't see that uptake of a car that's more like a golf cart or the set of an underground city in a James Bond film will be big enough for manufacturers to justify their R&D costs.

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True, but I can't see that uptake of a car that's more like a golf cart or the set of an underground city in a James Bond film will be big enough for manufacturers to justify their R&D costs.

You don't need to provide a golf cart. A return to 1960's engine sizes perhaps?

A heavy, unaerodynamic 1960's saloon like an Austin Cambridge only had a crude 1600cc engine. A modern Toyota Prius (IIRC) has a 1500cc engine + electrics.

Also my 4 seater Citroen Visa had a flat twin 852cc engine (an upgraded 2CV engine). Perfectly usable. It would cruise at 65-70 on the M1 (until you hit a hill of course).

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You don't need to provide a golf cart. A return to 1960's engine sizes perhaps?

A heavy, unaerodynamic 1960's saloon like an Austin Cambridge only had a crude 1600cc engine. A modern Toyota Prius (IIRC) has a 1500cc engine + electrics.

Also my 4 seater Citroen Visa had a flat twin 852cc engine (an upgraded 2CV engine). Perfectly usable. It would cruise at 65-70 on the M1 (until you hit a hill of course).

My old Citroen GSA had a flat four (modified 2CV technology), air cooled and packed more punch than any of the competition. If you ignore the tinfoil body panels, they were nippy little things and way ahead of their time technologically.

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My old Citroen GSA had a flat four (modified 2CV technology), air cooled and packed more punch than any of the competition. If you ignore the tinfoil body panels, they were nippy little things and way ahead of their time technologically.

I almost bought a Citroen GS. Great cars.

To think the Austin Allegro could have looked as good as a GS.

pinin1100_01.jpg

The car illustrated in the photos is still perfectly functional and has exactly the same dimension as the Citroën GS that appeared in 1971.

Also the hideous Austin 1800/landcrab could have looked more like a CX.

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I almost bought a Citroen GS. Great cars.

To think the Austin Allegro could have looked as good as a GS.

pinin1100_01.jpg

The car illustrated in the photos is still perfectly functional and has exactly the same dimension as the Citroën GS that appeared in 1971.

Also the hideous Austin 1800/landcrab could have looked more like a CX.

I had a GSA - the next version. Great car - but expensive to repair.

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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpr...show_stars.html

Prepare yourself for a shock! Renault is set to be crowned the king of electric cars when it unveils an entire family of EVs at the IAA Frankfurt Motor Show, Auto Express has learned.

The French firm’s show stand will make history – as the first from a mainstream car maker to only feature battery-powered cars. The company is set to take the covers off an unprecedented four never-seen-before electric concepts

Renault has its sights set on becoming the world leader in electric vehicle technology. And heading the line-up is a new supermini-sized offering. Designed from the ground up to be fitted with a compact lithium-ion battery pack and high-performance motor, it’s the first in a new wave of purpose-built electric cars, rather than a retro fit to a combustion-engined model.

Sharing a platform with Nissan’s Leaf EV will keep the price down, while packaging tricks such as placing the battery pack under the floor will maximise interior space.

Also bursting on to the scene at Frankfurt will be a city car concept, a prototype of which is shown here in our exclusive spy shot. It will go head to head with Toyota’s upcoming electric variant

of the iQ and the Smart EV.

An all-electric conversion of the current Mégane will break cover, too – marking a significant step for the firm. The converted hatch will be the first Renault to go on sale in Israel, a country with a rapidly developing EV infrastructure. Completing the Frankfurt stars will be an updated version of the Kangoo Be Bop EV mini-MPV.

The electric motors will range from 50kW to 100kW, or 70bhp to 140bhp in more conventional terms. That means acceleration should be comparable to a 1.6-litre hatchback, delivering 0-60mph in around ten seconds. More intriguing, though, is Renault’s claim that the top speed of each electric car sold will be specific to the country in which it’s registered. UK cars, for example, will be capped electronically at 70mph.

Depending on the weight of your right foot and whether you call the air-conditioning into action, the range on a full charge for all these models should be in the region of 60 to 110 miles.

By Renault’s calculation, even when you factor in the cost for hiring the battery pack, running one of its EVs will cost 20 per cent less than a petrol or diesel model, based on driving 9,000 miles a year. But of course, the major benefit is zero emissions. Even when you consider the air pollution caused in producing the electricity, these are cleaner and more efficient machines.

However, the public will have to wait until 2011 before they can pick up a battery-powered Renault. But you might just spot one on the road as soon as 2010, when the firm will be testing them in the UK.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpr...l#ixzz0Ny5A0QRw

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