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This "must Buy Now" Peer Pressure....


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HOLA441
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HOLA442
OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

I suspect you may be right and with a mix of falls ad rises we'll see overall though not dramatic falls over the next two years (say 15%-20%).. BUT and this is the problem we could equally go into a much longer period of effective stagnation ( leaving you forever on the shelf) or a w shaped downturn which would make it even more difficult for you... I discount the massive 50% off that some here keep hoping for, but equally I don't think we'll see sustainable rises in prices... the problem for you is that some scenarios are easier to bear than others... a long period of stagnation might be the most difficult.

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HOLA443
:lol:

Thank you,

However, this whole thing is really getting me down.

I've had, in the past week (I'm not kidding):

1) Mother "I see house prices are booming again (c/o Daily Express :rolleyes: ) "You going to buy?"

2) Dad "These green shoots are everywhere. Make sure you buy now, especially while there is no stamp duty!"

3) Work colleague "They won't fall any further. You going to buy soon then? You must have a huge deposit" (FWIW: same girl laughed in Autumn 2007 when I said there would be a house price crash.

4) Mate "Seriously mate, they aren't going to be this cheap for years"

5) Brother. Continual comments over the last 6 months trying to batter me into buying (incidentally, he said the same thing in March last year "they won't fall").

It's all really getting on my tits now to be honest.

Ask them all to lend you a few grand each for the deposit. The astronomical growth in prices should allow you to pay them back in a year or so if they are right.

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HOLA444
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HOLA445
Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this :blink:

On the contrary, it was the lack of significant social upheaval that allowed us to go on and become the least equal society in Europe where the top2% of the population own most of the land.

Viva the revolution (or a property price crash) - same thing to a British person :ph34r:

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HOLA446
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HOLA447
I see your points about security, pension and freedom to do whatever you want with your house. They are all absolutely reasonable.

But they hold true in many other countries, yet I have been in the UK for quite a few years and I keep getting bad looks from people (even friends with a decent amount of financial knowledge) whenever I say I could theoretically buy a property but I don't. It's hard to explain, but at times my brain cannot help but brand their arguments as obsession or even borderline fanatism. It's gotten to a point where I'd rather avoid the subject altogether if I can.

You can have a better idea of what I am saying by paying attention to all the property porn programmes on tv. It's like being a tenant is a crime :|

Its easy, a social status thing, your social class determines what you use as your bragging rights over your neighbours:

On benefits/minimum wage - your bragging rights are your sofa and plasma TV

Skilled manual worker - your (owned) house and your car

Professional worker - your (owned) house(s), your car and your holidays

Wealthy - your houses, your cars and your holidays

The achievement (sp?) of the Thatcher premiership was to allow a lot more C1,2/D1,2 to achieve to home ownership through right to buy

Previously it home ownership was more unusual and it was a badge of respectability among the manual classes

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HOLA448
I see your points about security, pension and freedom to do whatever you want with your house. They are all absolutely reasonable.

But they hold true in many other countries, yet I have been in the UK for quite a few years and I keep getting bad looks from people (even friends with a decent amount of financial knowledge) whenever I say I could theoretically buy a property but I don't. It's hard to explain, but at times my brain cannot help but brand their arguments as obsession or even borderline fanatism. It's gotten to a point where I'd rather avoid the subject altogether if I can.

You can have a better idea of what I am saying by paying attention to all the property porn programmes on tv. It's like being a tenant is a crime :|

Its easy, a social status thing, your social class determines what you use as your bragging rights over your neighbours:

On benefits/minimum wage - your bragging rights are your sofa and plasma TV

Skilled manual worker - your (owned) house and your car

Professional worker - your (owned) house(s), your car and your holidays

Wealthy - your houses, your cars and your holidays

The achievement (sp?) of the Thatcher premiership was to allow a lot more C1,2/D1,2 to achieve to home ownership through right to buy

Previously it home ownership was more unusual and it was a badge of respectability among the manual classes

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HOLA449
I see your points about security, pension and freedom to do whatever you want with your house. They are all absolutely reasonable.

But they hold true in many other countries, yet I have been in the UK for quite a few years and I keep getting bad looks from people (even friends with a decent amount of financial knowledge) whenever I say I could theoretically buy a property but I don't. It's hard to explain, but at times my brain cannot help but brand their arguments as obsession or even borderline fanatism. It's gotten to a point where I'd rather avoid the subject altogether if I can.

You can have a better idea of what I am saying by paying attention to all the property porn programmes on tv. It's like being a tenant is a crime :|

Its easy, a social status thing, your social class determines what you use as your bragging rights over your neighbours:

On benefits/minimum wage - your bragging rights are your sofa and plasma TV

Skilled manual worker - your (owned) house and your car

Professional worker - your (owned) house(s), your car and your holidays

Wealthy - your houses, your cars and your holidays

The achievement (sp?) of the Thatcher premiership was to allow a lot more C1,2/D1,2 to achieve to home ownership through right to buy

Previously it home ownership was more unusual and it was a badge of respectability among the manual classes

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HOLA4410
It's just a gamble at the moment

At the moment? Give us a shout when you've worked out how to predict markets accurately! But its a fair point, as someone else points out at the top, in Japan it took 15 years for prices to bottom out. Well that's kind of a long time to wait in anyone's life time!

In an ideal world we'd buy low and sell high, but no one can actually accurately predict the markets. Just take comfort in avoiding the peak and you've done a lot better than some poor souls! Personally I can't wait 15 years, the whole point of buying for me is to put down roots and provide stability to the kids. What's the point if they have grown up and left home already!

Sure at the end of our lives some here are going to die with 50k more in the bank than me. I can't quite convince myself that I care though. But good luck. Buy a house because you want one and can afford one. Not for an investment, not because society says you should.

And remember, anyone who bought at the last peak, and sold at this peak probably isn't crying themselves to sleep every night. It's all cyclical. Oh wait - this time its different ;)!

Edited by Orbital
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HOLA4411
I've just had a Eureka moment after reading this.

Basically, this is the first big bull run in property (1997 to 2007) since the introduction of the AST (1988). IMHO, this has made a lot of the rental properties volatile regarding long, stable tenancies as landords have been selling/flipping for capital gains. This, naturally, has been a disruptive decade for a lot of 20 and 30 somethings, and all they have ever experienced in the rental market, hence the aversion to renting for the supposed stability or buying.

This is the main reason - although I think the obsession with property 'ownership' is something visceral in the British character - something to do with our early industrialisation and the Enclosure Acts/Highland clearances. The weather's also a factor - if it's cold and wet most of the year you become inwardly focused on the home (the nordic countries are cold but dry which means they have more of an outdoor culture).

Personally the way round the problem I found was to seek out a property that was obviously being run as a business rather than just an 'investment' waiting to be flipped, eg, I live in a building that's divided into small one bed and studio flats all run by the same landlord.

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HOLA4412
At the moment? Give us a shout when you've worked out how to predict markets accurately! But its a fair point, as someone else points out at the top, in Japan it took 15 years for prices to bottom out. Well that's kind of a long time to wait in anyone's life time!

In an ideal world we'd buy low and sell high, but no one can actually accurately predict the markets. Just take comfort in avoiding the peak and you've done a lot better than some poor souls! Personally I can't wait 15 years, the whole point of buying for me is to put down roots and provide stability to the kids. What's the point if they have grown up and left home already!

Sure at the end of our lives some here are going to die with 50k more in the bank than me. I can't quite convince myself that I care though. But good luck. Buy a house because you want one and can afford one. Not for an investment, not because society says you should.

And remember, anyone who bought at the last peak, and sold at this peak probably isn't crying themselves to sleep every night. It's all cyclical. Oh wait - this time its different ;)!

Orbital, you're one of the few bulls who presents their viewpoint in a rational way (and concentrates on a house for its utility rather than investment value).

However, the danger in your advice is that buying now could see people who have been prudent and saved carefully (to raise that all important 25% deposit) wiped out over the next couple of years. I don't have any sympathy for those who caused this mess by living way beyond their means; mewing for all they were worth; and then declaring themselves bankrupt but I do think that this site acts as an important counterpoint to the BS we hear every day in the MSM for those who might otherwise feel pressured into buying (when they know in their gut that houses are still too expensive).

Unfortunately, the meek shall only inherit the earth if they are given a bear to guide them to the promised land ;)

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HOLA4413
OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

You're either confident in your views, or you're not ;)

If it's someone who just clearly has no basis on which to form a view, I just let it pass - they're just parroting what they've heard and there's no point attempting a debate. If it's someone who is at least economically literate, I'll engage to some extent, but it often ends up with them running out of arguments after about 3 minutes, and sometimes getting the hump. So I try to let that pass too now. It is funny how people seem to almost take it personally/think you're mad if you're not tied into property though.

Edited by FallingKnife
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