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Is Government Good?


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HOLA441
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HOLA442
Guest UK Debt Slave
We have to have threats because if we didn't there would be threats.

:rolleyes:

You seem to have the wild idea that a world with no government will be some utopian existence where nobody will try to take your stuff.

You have a very peculiar view about human nature if you believe that.

Some level of governmentseems to be a necessary evil. I concede that having the checks and balances in place to stop it becoming more interested in itself is pretty much impossible in the longer term. There will never be such a thing as incorruptible government. There will never be such a thing as incorruptible individuals either.

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HOLA443
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HOLA444
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HOLA445
You seem to have the wild idea that a world with no government will be some utopian existence where nobody will try to take your stuff.

You have a very peculiar view about human nature if you believe that.

I know that people will do what's in their self interest.

I know that self interest is best served by not stealing. :)

All that awaits is anough realising these two facts.

Some level of governmentseems to be a necessary evil. I concede that having the checks and balances in place to stop it becoming more interested in itself is pretty much impossible in the longer term. There will never be such a thing as incorruptible government. There will never be such a thing as incorruptible individuals either.

:)

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HOLA446
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HOLA447
I know that people will do what's in their self interest.

I know that self interest is best served by not stealing. :)

All that awaits is anough realising these two facts.

:)

You seem a little naive about human nature Injin. The world is full of dumb unscrupulous people who would never realise it was not in their best interests to steal something. In fact, they'd look at you like you were mad for even suggesting it to them.

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HOLA4410
Guest UK Debt Slave
The Bill of Rights is reasonably easy to understand. It's a document I think everybody should read because it's such an eye opener. You're reading it and a dozen every day breeches spring to mind immediately - the way the Inland Revenue operate, speeding tickets/fines, torture (US and UK Governments), divorce/custody (on about ten million different fronts) and on and on...

Trouble is, what can you do if nobody seems capable of holding Governments to the law.

I think you are mistaking constitutional law with civil law.

Civil law is all contractual. Act and statutes are given the force of law by the consent of the governed.

Of course, they don't tell you that you don't have to consent. They just trick you into agreeing to stuff and befuddle you with a language that masquerades as English, legalese.

The moment you even give a policeman or a court official your name, you have consented to be governed without your knowledge because they have associated you with the fictional legal entity that they use to rob you, 'the person'

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HOLA4411
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HOLA4412
and you say that because...

Because history says thats what happens.

The strongest (or those with the biggest guns) survive.

Our best bet is to have some say over who has the biggest guns and have them accountable.

Oooh, that would be a government.

Still, you think your system works - care to give me a modern day example where it does?

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HOLA4413
I think you are mistaking constitutional law with civil law.

Civil law is all contractual. Act and statutes are given the force of law by the consent of the governed.

Of course, they don't tell you that you don't have to consent. They just trick you into agreeing to stuff and befuddle you with a language that masquerades as English, legalese.

The moment you even give a policeman or a court official your name, you have consented to be governed without your knowledge because they have associated you with the fictional legal entity that they use to rob you, 'the person'

In what way am I confusing the two? The Bill of Rights specifically forbids certain activities that are carried out on a day to day basis by the Government. As far as I'm aware the Bill of Rights hasn't been abolished and I believe it cannot be legally overridden.

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HOLA4414
Because history says thats what happens.

The strongest (or those with the biggest guns) survive.

Our best bet is to have some say over who has the biggest guns and have them accountable.

Oooh, that would be a government.

Still, you think your system works - care to give me a modern day example where it does?

You've attacked how many people this week?

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HOLA4415
Our best bet is to have some say over who has the biggest guns and have them accountable.

Oooh, that would be a government.

:lol: you think the gov't is accountable!

Still, you think your system works - care to give me a modern day example where it does?

there was a hpc thread on Somalia last week. I suggest you read it.

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HOLA4416
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HOLA4417
:lol: you think the gov't is accountable!

No, not nearly enough. But the solution is not anarchy.

there was a hpc thread on Somalia last week. I suggest you read it.

I did.

And compare Somalia to here (UK) and tell me where you would rather live.

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HOLA4419

Ok, what is the alternative then so we can have a society that is something other than gun-toting anarchy?

a law is when a group of control freaks write down on a piece of paper how they want everyone else to behave and then hire armed thugs to enforce across a particular territory.

why would you want to do this?

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HOLA4420
So how do you know your suggested solution would work - its only a theory.

No empircal evidence.

No, my theory is derived from my own day to day ecperience of the world.

Whereas your is flat out excuse making propaganda nonsense.

How many people have you threatened or attacked this week?

I am betting none.

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HOLA4421
Guest UK Debt Slave
In what way am I confusing the two? The Bill of Rights specifically forbids certain activities that are carried out on a day to day basis by the Government. As far as I'm aware the Bill of Rights hasn't been abolished and I believe it cannot be legally overridden.

Lawfully overridden I think

The Bill of Rights has basically been flushed down the toilet. It's gone.

We all live under Admiralty Law now. We're already ruled from Brussels in most respects. Our own government will soon be redundent anyway. Bye bye habeas corpus! It's gone mate.

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HOLA4424
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HOLA4425
wrong comparison.

you need to compare how Somalia is now to how it was with government.

Why?

Why cant I compare this country with how it would be without government?

Why do I have to use YOUR example?

How about if Somalia had a govement that worked EXACTLY as ours does?

Where would you rather live? The UK with a government, or Somalia without a government?

See, your simplistic idealism falls apart at that question.

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