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Housing Debt-boom To Blame For Late Parenthood

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...ot-children-nhs

Couples are "sticking their heads in the sand" and one expert urged 30-year-old women to take a "fertility MoT" test to reveal their prospects of bearing children. "Women do not realise the importance of age when it comes to fertility," said Professor Bill Ledger, of Sheffield University. "They think, 'It won't happen to me, I'm 37, I go to the gym twice a week, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I'm fit – everything about me is young'. Well it is, except your ovaries."

He said the solution was for women to take a blood test that could highlight problems in those who wanted children, but had not started trying. It would cost around £100. Ledger said the NHS would be unlikely to pay if the women were healthy, but argued that if it did, it could save money in the long run.

Every six months or so the medics trot out something like this. While there may be a few have-it-all women who want power careers and a baby at 38, most would-be late motherhood, from observing friends and acquaintances, is the fault of the housing debt-boom and the McDonaldisaed job market that means couples are just about covering costs, not saving enough for a pensions, pay high rents or brutal mortgages.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Professor Bill Ledger. Let's have a look at his business interests.

Hmm, has shareholdings in Lifestyle Choices Ltd.

I wonder what they do?

Oh, here we are

Lifestyle Choices launched its first product, a new triple hormone ovarian reserve test called Plan Ahead, in 2006. The test, which is available from Boots online (http://www.boots.com/), offers the most accurate hormone based ovarian reserve test available to the public, enabling women to make more informed decisions about when to try for a baby. Developed by Professor Bill Ledger, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynaecology at the University of Sheffield, the Plan Ahead test gives a predictive assessment of a woman’s ovaries compared to that expected for women of the same age.

Surely not just another advertisement for commercial self interest masquerading as a 'news' article.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

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Professor Bill Ledger. Let's have a look at his business interests.

Hmm, has shareholdings in Lifestyle Choices Ltd.

I wonder what they do?

Oh, here we are

Surely not just another advertisement for commercial self interest masquerading as a 'news' article.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Doesn't surprise me, but then I never really liked the idea of delaying children till late 30s anyway - each to their own of course.

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I think it really has nothing at all to do with house prices and much more to do with people delaying having kids as there are too many other things they want to do with their lives , and its nothing to do with just women its their husbands/partners too , we are finally having children close to 40 and it was much more of a struggle than planned ( 2 rounds IVF ) it also seems that 100% of our friends are now also in the process of starting families just before it gets too late , looking back i wish we had started earlier but everyone else I know is in the same boat ... I dont think this is scaremongering but sound advice ..

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I think it really has nothing at all to do with house prices and much more to do with people delaying having kids as there are too many other things they want to do with their lives , and its nothing to do with just women its their husbands/partners too , we are finally having children close to 40 and it was much more of a struggle than planned ( 2 rounds IVF ) it also seems that 100% of our friends are now also in the process of starting families just before it gets too late , looking back i wish we had started earlier but everyone else I know is in the same boat ... I dont think this is scaremongering but sound advice ..

Yeah I agree, it's nothing to do with the housing market. It's part of the emancipation of female working careers and the resulting knock on effect on men. Men now don't feel like they have to have kids til they are in their late 30s, how many 30 year old guys do see you behaving like guys in their early 20s?

Women have careers in their 20s, so guys mess around like big teenagers til they turn 35. The number of 28-30 yr old girls I know who are dating guys 36-40 because those are the only guys who feel even vaguely ready to have kids is terrifying.

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Every six months or so the medics trot out something like this. While there may be a few have-it-all women who want power careers and a baby at 38, most would-be late motherhood, from observing friends and acquaintances, is the fault of the housing debt-boom and the McDonaldisaed job market that means couples are just about covering costs, not saving enough for a pensions, pay high rents or brutal mortgages.

Actually, note that when the pill came out, there was an immediate sharp drop of birthrates, but housing was cheap and also marriage and common morals were still quite intact. Also, society was a lot more welcoming to children back then too. Still, with all this 'perfect' enviroment that we can only dream of today, when given free choice, women voted to stay childfree.

I think it's because people are still realists and know how much hard work and responsibility a child is, and lots of people are not mentally ready for instant adulthood that'll take away their freedoms and money. Have a look what Queen Victoria said about motherhood... she was no fan of it, and had the pill been around back then, she'd have 1 or 2 at the most I think. But back then, not even the Queen cold escape reproduction and despite an army of helpers found it wearisome!

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Actually, note that when the pill came out, there was an immediate sharp drop of birthrates, but housing was cheap and also marriage and common morals were still quite intact. Also, society was a lot more welcoming to children back then too. Still, with all this 'perfect' enviroment that we can only dream of today, when given free choice, women voted to stay childfree.

I think it's because people are still realists and know how much hard work and responsibility a child is, and lots of people are not mentally ready for instant adulthood that'll take away their freedoms and money. Have a look what Queen Victoria said about motherhood... she was no fan of it, and had the pill been around back then, she'd have 1 or 2 at the most I think. But back then, not even the Queen cold escape reproduction and despite an army of helpers found it wearisome!

Sitting here in Rome with my 19 year old son, 15 year old daughter and my 18 year old nephew, and my wife we are 46/47

Children are the best fun you can have and the most natural. The 30-45 generation were sold a pup and you know it.

The problem is you wanted plasma tv's and holidays abroad rather than settling down and enjoying life at a natural pace.

35 year olds acting liking twenty years old is pathetic as for 40 year olds on Ivf you find it hard to concieve for a reason.

Got in at 530 this morning after seeing some clubs and bars with the lads so who is the realist and who is having fun?

You were sold a pup and it is just starting to dawn on you.

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951.gif

the chart doesn't look to troubling.

the thing you cant see is that 1/3 of all female graduates never have kids.

& women born in pakistan, have a firtility rate 3 times higher than british born women (i.e. 5 kids on average).

I am 37 from a family of three, my two sisters are unmarried, childless, graduates... no kids here either.

(going to rome in 2weeks btw :) )

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Professor Bill Ledger. Let's have a look at his business interests.

Hmm, has shareholdings in Lifestyle Choices Ltd.

I wonder what they do?

Oh, here we are

Surely not just another advertisement for commercial self interest masquerading as a 'news' article.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Good work. How are the plans for Project Mayhem?

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I was brought up eight of us in a 2 bed 1 box room home...my mum was young and like a sister, my sisters and brothers are my best friends....although at the time the lack of space and privacy was a problem what we all went though brought us closer together and did none of us any harm....all children need are loving parents, positive attention, clear direction, security, manners and taught to show respect. ;)

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Sitting here in Rome with my 19 year old son, 15 year old daughter and my 18 year old nephew, and my wife we are 46/47

Children are the best fun you can have and the most natural. The 30-45 generation were sold a pup and you know it.

The problem is you wanted plasma tv's and holidays abroad rather than settling down and enjoying life at a natural pace.

35 year olds acting liking twenty years old is pathetic as for 40 year olds on Ivf you find it hard to concieve for a reason.

Got in at 530 this morning after seeing some clubs and bars with the lads so who is the realist and who is having fun?

You were sold a pup and it is just starting to dawn on you.

Each to their own, eh?

You say it's great to have them young, others feel differently, it's not rocket science and there's no right answer.

I feel bad for your kids though having to drag an old git round a load of clubs haha... :lol:

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Good work. How are the plans for Project Mayhem?

I'm leaving it up to the economists, bankers and politicians.

No sense in making work for oneself while they're doing such a fine job by themselves.

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Sitting here in Rome with my 19 year old son, 15 year old daughter and my 18 year old nephew, and my wife we are 46/47

Children are the best fun you can have and the most natural. The 30-45 generation were sold a pup and you know it.

The problem is you wanted plasma tv's and holidays abroad rather than settling down and enjoying life at a natural pace.

35 year olds acting liking twenty years old is pathetic as for 40 year olds on Ivf you find it hard to concieve for a reason.

Got in at 530 this morning after seeing some clubs and bars with the lads so who is the realist and who is having fun?

You were sold a pup and it is just starting to dawn on you.

Meow! <_< (Hmm, pup sold... the funny thing is that I'm currently looking for a puppy,lol)

Lots of people have a great time as parents, but lots of people don't -- the world is full of kids whose parents hated them, and if you look at the massive requirements you have to fulfil nowadays to successfully bring up kids, you can understand when people think that this is far too much trouble. But as I said, even when the world was still 'allright' back then, parents still tried to avoid having kids whenever possible, because well, the stork used to arrive more often than he was welcomed normally anyway as is, it could not be helped. So when the pill came out, we found out the real desire to parent amongst humans and that it's quite low. A bit like the communists found out that people don't actually like working if it can be avoided somehow ;-D (oops)

Lots of people are childfree and not clubbers, and they also act like adults too. And they are having a great time -- just as good as yours with your adults kids in Rome, just different. They do it because they can, they don't want an expensive, complex, strenuous life, to them this is not fun, to you, life without kids would be dull. I personally think the world is a better place when parenthood is voluntary and only those who really want kids actually have them.

So, the sad fact is, if you want people to have more kids, then make the pill and all other forms of birth control illegal (although, looking at the traincrash that the war on drugs is, maybe not a winner in the long term lol). In every country where women are given free access to contraceptives, births numbers are falling, so this is an universal thing and not only a function of western mores and drinks.

Btw, as to whom was sold the pup, the jury is out here... I've volunteered long enough in old folks' homes to know that a lot of kids just discard their parents in their old age, for a lot of people childrearing was unfortunately an expensive waste of time and love. As always, there is a range of experiences, I'm sure that some of those people also deserved getting dumped by their kids, some parents are just evil, and desertion usually is their punishment. YMMV, I wish you good luck.

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951.gif

the chart doesn't look to troubling.

the thing you cant see is that 1/3 of all female graduates never have kids.

& women born in pakistan, have a firtility rate 3 times higher than british born women (i.e. 5 kids on average).

I am 37 from a family of three, my two sisters are unmarried, childless, graduates... no kids here either.

(going to rome in 2weeks btw :) )

Then you have to do 2 things, make motherhood an attractive proposition for the graduate mother, ie excellent tax breaks for childcare, better employment protection to ensure her career doesn't go down the swanny or else accept that of these 1/3 that never have children they might not have been the best parents in the world anyway.

I know lots of women with children who should never have had them but felt pressured into joining the club, the media and hollywood should stop portraying single women over 35 as sad old crows.

Some people are great aunties, uncle's, god parents not everyone should have kids.

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Then you have to do 2 things, make motherhood an attractive proposition for the graduate mother, ie excellent tax breaks for childcare, better employment protection to ensure her career doesn't go down the swanny or else accept that of these 1/3 that never have children they might not have been the best parents in the world anyway.

I know lots of women with children who should never have had them but felt pressured into joining the club, the media and hollywood should stop portraying single women over 35 as sad old crows.

Some people are great aunties, uncle's, god parents not everyone should have kids.

Absolutely, having kids is not for everyone, having children is a lifetime of dedication, worry and sacrifice...

Like anything, you get out of it what you put into it. ;)

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I was at a school friends wedding this weekend. There were 10 blokes of my age, all friends of the grooms from school and university. We all turned 30 or 31 this year.

Of us:

I got married at nearly 28

The groom got married at 30

1 is engaged and getting married next year.

7 are either with short term girlfriends or single

None have children yet.

Of the bride's 10 or so friends

2 had very recently born babies

8 were childless

This seems fairly typical for the weddings I've been to recently. A lot of unmarried, childless 30 year olds just having fun.

Almost everyone there will want children at some point, however we are all probably leaving it a bit late!

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I was at a school friends wedding this weekend. There were 10 blokes of my age, all friends of the grooms from school and university. We all turned 30 or 31 this year.

Of us:

I got married at nearly 28

The groom got married at 30

1 is engaged and getting married next year.

7 are either with short term girlfriends or single

None have children yet.

Of the bride's 10 or so friends

2 had very recently born babies

8 were childless

This seems fairly typical for the weddings I've been to recently. A lot of unmarried, childless 30 year olds just having fun.

Almost everyone there will want children at some point, however we are all probably leaving it a bit late!

And yet interestingly my daughters reception teacher gave birth on Friday, aged 41, yes they had IVF and more heart ache and cost involved than if they'd met and married at 28, but they got there in the end and I bet they earnt more than the £6k required to bring that baby into the world in that 12 year period.

I come across a lot of rubbish mothers that had children at 18-25 so do not think later parenthood is a bad thing actually.

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I was at a school friends wedding this weekend. There were 10 blokes of my age, all friends of the grooms from school and university. We all turned 30 or 31 this year.

Of us:

I got married at nearly 28

The groom got married at 30

1 is engaged and getting married next year.

7 are either with short term girlfriends or single

None have children yet.

Of the bride's 10 or so friends

2 had very recently born babies

8 were childless

This seems fairly typical for the weddings I've been to recently. A lot of unmarried, childless 30 year olds just having fun.

Almost everyone there will want children at some point, however we are all probably leaving it a bit late!

probably why the proportion of local people is falling compared to the immigrant population. Locals are breeding themselves out of a country.

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lots of love and dedication are the obviuos prerequisites for have children, but i'm surprised at the amount of so called "proffesional women" dumping their kids into childcare quite soon after giving birth.

I suppose womens magazines haven't really thought about the long term implications for a society of unloved kids. Mortgage, appearances first, love seems way down the list

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It would simply be cheaper just to tell them that the earlier they have their kids, the brighter and healtheir their kids will be.

Trust me I work with a lot of the women giving birth at the optimum time and frankly I wish they'd put their babies into childcare and go back to work, it would be better for everyone concerned.

Older parents have less children, have a better educated mothers the biggest benefit of all and are smart enough to access any services required to help their child with any issues health or educational.

The number of times I've seen kids go downhill just because the parents didn't know there was a problem and act quickly enough is ridiculous, older mums tend to be less blase about their own health and that of their children's in my experience and able to articulate the symptoms so they are spotted and dealt with effectively before too much damage is done.

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It's even worse in Italy

Fertility rate:

Uk 1.8

Italy 1.2

http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_deta...indicatorid=138

http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_deta...indicatorid=138

(if your a numbers wonk - that site looks good)

might be all the pasta the mamas eat....not attractive...they marry looking like Gina Lollabridgida and end up looking like Krusty,

Edited by Bloo Loo

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lots of love and dedication are the obviuos prerequisites for have children, but i'm surprised at the amount of so called "proffesional women" dumping their kids into childcare quite soon after giving birth.

I suppose womens magazines haven't really thought about the long term implications for a society of unloved kids. Mortgage, appearances first, love seems way down the list

That old chestnut is a myth, older mothers have better maternity benefits which allow more time with their infants not less and research proves over and over that 2 hours spent with the little one breast feeding it whilst talking to it v's 10 hours pushing it around a shopping mall with your ipod in results in a better outcome for the child.

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