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Dave Spart

Bbc : State Pension Age 'could Hit 70'

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Given the parlous state of the country's finances does this come as any surprise?

The Beeb interviewed people on the streets. One bloke seemed to understand matters, the other two came across with the usual indignance you'd expect and you can expect a great many viewers across the country found themselves nodding their heads in self-righteous agreement.

You can bet many of those enraged viewers have made small fortunes thanks to the HPI they stoked, having spernt a decade smugly telling the likes of us HPCers that their property was their pension. To them I say : Well done ass-holes - thanks to your selfishness you've put the country into penury. You've feathered your own nest at everyone's expense - including your own. Stop your sodding grumbling : you're to blame.

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Guest The Relaxation Suite
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Given the parlous state of the country's finances does this come as any surprise?

The Beeb interviewed people on the streets. One bloke seemed to understand matters, the other two came across with the usual indignance you'd expect and you can expect a great many viewers across the country found themselves nodding their heads in self-righteous agreement.

You can bet many of those enraged viewers have made small fortunes thanks to the HPI they stoked, having spernt a decade smugly telling the likes of us HPCers that their property was their pension. To them I say : Well done ass-holes - thanks to your selfishness you've put the country into penury. You've feathered your own nest at everyone's expense - including your own. Stop your sodding grumbling : you're to blame.

If you think this is bad I've got some more bad news for you: there will be no state pension at all in a generation's time.

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If you think this is bad I've got some more bad news for you: there will be no state pension at all in a generation's time.

Yep, the Basic State Pension will amount to so little they'll either scrap it or pay it as a commuted lump sum at state retirement age. The cost of administering the pension will exceed the value of its benefits.

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Guest The Relaxation Suite
Yep, the Basic State Pension will amount to so little they'll either scrap it or pay it as a commuted lump sum at state retirement age. The cost of administering the pension will exceed the value of its benefits.

Totally agree. Pension age will go up and up from now on. It will be spun as being a kindly way to let increasingly healthy old people have more money by allowing them to work for longer. Then it will get too ridiculous to spin (85 or something) and they'll just scrap it. A lot of people by then won't remember pensions anyway because they will have been too young when they were around.

Investing in companies specialising in providing pensions insurance might be worth thinking about.

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He said the ability of the current working generation to pay for the retirement of its predecessor would be "a real issue for the next 30 years", not least because of a lack of knowledge among the public about how to save.

I can feel another government initiative coming on.

Edit, where are the videos?

Edited by chefdave

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What this all goes to show is the need for enterprise in the UK - making and selling products and services.

Singapore, where I live, is a city-state built on a small island - but big enough to have distinct districts - estates with their own clusters of shops to serve the local community. Singapore doesn't have much of a social-security safety net, instead Singaporeans are encouraged to open businesses and trade and this is done through local shopping malls.

We're not just talking about the sort of set up we have in the UK. Local shopping centres in British villages, suburban estates and sink estates tend to be little more than a newsagents, a grocery shop, and say a pharmacy.

Local shopping centres in Singapore are often modern, glitzy multi-storey shopping malls. They're smaller versions of the full on shopping malls you find in most British citiy centres. Their purpose is to provide everyone a chance to rent a space and trade for themselves. You will find branded outlets like McDonalds, DeliFrance and Guardian but most of the other units will be occupied by independents. One advantage is the prevalence of genuine specialist shops importing products from all over the world - stuff you never see in the UK - not just the mundane list of usual High St brand names. On top of this Singapore also boasts state-of-the-art mutistorey light-industry units right dotted across the island.

Ask yourself this question: How many times have you been to a suburban district in the UK and driven for street after street never to see so much as a single shop? Except for the old-colonial areas, in Singapore you generally don't encounter such wastelands. The physical infrastructure of British cities and towns simply isn't geared to encouraging enterprise. Britons are couped up in their own little castles disconnected miles from enterprise.

Yet in Singapore, by providing everyone means to run their own businesses locally, they concentrate the more mundane names to the estates leaving Singapore's most famous shopping district Orchard Road to be the place to find the world's most glamorous brands. How many High Streets in the UK can boast boutiques like Louis Vuitton, Gucci and Dolce & Gabbana to name but a few?

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People are going to get completely stiffed by this and the government need to know that they cannot keep moving the goalposts, its a disgrace.

If workers are going to be forced into paying for a state pension then the government should be contractually obliged to provide financial benefits that are commensurate with the contributions made. Otherwise there is no justification for having N.I

Its my money, I've worked hard for it and if its being taken away from me for a pension then I'm entitled to every single penny back with interest at an age that I choose. If they cannot guarantee this then scrap NI.

Edited by chefdave

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If you think this is bad I've got some more bad news for you: there will be no state pension at all in a generation's time.

Yes there will. It's the sort of bull**** put out by FAs for the last 20 years to try and persuade peple to take out 'personal' pensions, which have bombed in value. Better off putting the money in a safe, low IR account really.

All research shows that older people are more likely to vote. It would be political suicide for any part to alienate the grey vote. In Canada in 1993, the governing party went from 169 seats out of 295 to just 2. That's the sort of thing that could happen here to any party found out to be considering scrapping the state pension.

It may become means-tested however. An all-party consensus would be needed to browbeat the population over this, who would expect a drop in NI contributions, or at least a low ceiling.

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What this all goes to show is the need for enterprise in the UK - making and selling products and services.

Singapore, where I live, is a city-state built on a small island - but big enough to have distinct districts - estates with their own clusters of shops to serve the local community. Singapore doesn't have much of a social-security safety net, instead Singaporeans are encouraged to open businesses and trade and this is done through local shopping malls.

We're not just talking about the sort of set up we have in the UK. Local shopping centres in British villages, suburban estates and sink estates tend to be little more than a newsagents, a grocery shop, and say a pharmacy.

Local shopping centres in Singapore are often modern, glitzy multi-storey shopping malls. They're smaller versions of the full on shopping malls you find in most British citiy centres. Their purpose is to provide everyone a chance to rent a space and trade for themselves. You will find branded outlets like McDonalds, DeliFrance and Guardian but most of the other units will be occupied by independents. One advantage is the prevalence of genuine specialist shops importing products from all over the world - stuff you never see in the UK - not just the mundane list of usual High St brand names. On top of this Singapore also boasts state-of-the-art mutistorey light-industry units right dotted across the island.

Ask yourself this question: How many times have you been to a suburban district in the UK and driven for street after street never to see so much as a single shop? Except for the old-colonial areas, in Singapore you generally don't encounter such wastelands. The physical infrastructure of British cities and towns simply isn't geared to encouraging enterprise. Britons are couped up in their own little castles disconnected miles from enterprise.

Yet in Singapore, by providing everyone means to run their own businesses locally, they concentrate the more mundane names to the estates leaving Singapore's most famous shopping district Orchard Road to be the place to find the world's most glamorous brands. How many High Streets in the UK can boast boutiques like Louis Vuitton, Gucci and Dolce & Gabbana to name but a few?

UK High Sreets are full of charity shops, empty Woolworths, cheap clothing shops and Chavs being interviewed by the BBC.

Edited by campervanman

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What this all goes to show is the need for enterprise in the UK - making and selling products and services.

There's too much red tape, liecensing, rules etc for that.

Although, there's an initiative called "Boscombe underground" in Boscombe next to Argos, where the council(?) have used an empty shop, and made a mini-market, for independent traders/New Age Traveller types.

It's open now - and worth seeing if anyone passing the area, as it is a good sign that we might be moving away from the expansion of cheap-credit-corporate drone shops.

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There's too much red tape, liecensing, rules etc for that.

Although, there's an initiative called "Boscombe underground" in Boscombe next to Argos, where the council(?) have used an empty shop, and made a mini-market, for independent traders/New Age Traveller types.

It's open now - and worth seeing if anyone passing the area, as it is a good sign that we might be moving away from the expansion of cheap-credit-corporate drone shops.

That scale is way too miniature and they're using existing and probably very old facilities that were not purpose built for the job.

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What do others think about the possibility that insurance companies will in the future be taking on the state responsibility of paying pensions and benefits?

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Yes there will. It's the sort of bull**** put out by FAs for the last 20 years to try and persuade peple to take out 'personal' pensions, which have bombed in value. Better off putting the money in a safe, low IR account really.

All research shows that older people are more likely to vote. It would be political suicide for any part to alienate the grey vote. In Canada in 1993, the governing party went from 169 seats out of 295 to just 2. That's the sort of thing that could happen here to any party found out to be considering scrapping the state pension.

It may become means-tested however. An all-party consensus would be needed to browbeat the population over this, who would expect a drop in NI contributions, or at least a low ceiling.

They are more or less scrapping the state pension, but its only for the people born after 76. They just have to keep grinding down the current generation of workers into accepting without question high taxes and a low quality of life coupled with little financial security and electorally it won't be a problem. And the genius of it is that most people in my generation don't even realised they're being screwed. Even if they do the financial misery inflicted isn't being addressed by the established political parties so it appears that there's no viable alternative to the current state of affairs.

Edited by chefdave

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What do others think about the possibility that insurance companies will in the future be taking on the state responsibility of paying pensions and benefits?

A few points:

  • Despite many people remaining understandably sceptical over private pensions, the ending of state pensions would be almost inevitable under the Tories.

  • Can we as a nation continue to afford a social security system which - in some cases - actually discourages fit and able people from being self-reliant, when they could be enjoying engaging with the rest of the world trading products and services?

  • This idea that whenever anyone reaches a fixed, one-size-fits-all age tax payers will fund you to go on holiday for the rest of your life is looking increasingly questionable.

  • Over the last ten years only one form of enterprise has been encouraged in the UK : property. Vested interests encouraged the nation to put all its eggs in one basket. Disaster*.

Fact is a lot of folks like to remain active after hitting retirement age - that very activity results in longevity.

My solutions are:

  • Replace the glass-half-empty culture of benefits with the glass-half full culture of enterprise. Give people inspiration and encouragement and then give them the facilities to fulfill their dreams.

  • Ensure that private pensions provision continues to be tightly regulated with sensible investment strategies.

*Two reasons among others for discouraging investment in enterprise : (1) Every case has to be individually assessed meaning specialist expertise and (2) each individual assessment has its own associated overheads. Lending on property is p1ss easy to sanction and there's always a tangible asset to seize in the event of default. That's why relatively speaking there is so little investment in industry.

Edited by Dave Spart

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IMO state pensions will in the future only pay a token gesture, not a living income....hard as it may seem it will be up to each individual to provide for their own futures, either through their families, their businesses, their long term regularly reviewed savings/investments...their assurance policy. ;)

You don't get owt for nowt. ;)

Edit: Assurance policy = something that will happen.

Insurance policy = something that might happen.

Edited by winkie

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What do others think about the possibility that insurance companies will in the future be taking on the state responsibility of paying pensions and benefits?

It could, but it won't make a blind bit of difference. Best thing you can do in this country is stop working until the welfare state collapses.

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When peak oil and resource constraints really kick in there will be a drop in life expectancy, just as there was in Russia after 1991. :(

Russia was and still is rich in natural resources and manpower. After 1991 the ownership of Russia's natural resources landed in the lap of the ganster class making them incredibly wealthy, and it left the population without a suitable stream of income to pay for desperately needed infrastructure. Any drop in life expectancy was a problem wholly attributable to government policy failure and not the result of resource constraints.

Edited by chefdave

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It could, but it won't make a blind bit of difference. Best thing you can do in this country is stop working until the welfare state collapses.

That would create one huge wake-up call. ;)

Edited by winkie

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