Another Hurdle For The Jobless: Credit Inquiries

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/business...ml?ref=business

Digging out of debt keeps getting harder for the unemployed as more companies use detailed credit checks to screen job prospects.

Out of work since December, Juan Ochoa was delighted when a staffing firm recently responded to his posting on Hotjobs.com with an opening for a data entry clerk. Before he could do much more, though, the firm checked his credit history.

The interest vanished. There were too many collections claims against him, the firm said.

“I never knew that nowadays they were going to start pulling credit checks on you even before you go for an interview,†said Mr. Ochoa, 46, who lost his job in December tracking inventory at a mining company in Santa Fe Springs, Calif. “Why would they need to pull a credit report? They’d need something like that if you were applying at a bank.â€

Once reserved for government jobs or payroll positions that could involve significant sums of money, credit checks are now fast, cheap and used for all manner of work. Employers, often winnowing a big pool of job applicants in days of nearly 10 percent unemployment, view the credit check as a valuable tool for assessing someone’s judgment.

But job counselors worry that the practice of shunning those with poor credit may be unfair and trap the unemployed — who may be battling foreclosure, living off credit cards and confronting personal bankruptcy — in a financial death spiral: the worse their debts, the harder it is to get a job to pay them off.

“How do you get out from under it?†asked Matthew W. Finkin, a law professor at the University of Illinois, who fears that the unemployed and debt-ridden could form a luckless class. “You can’t re-establish your credit if you can’t get a job, and you can’t get a job if you’ve got bad credit.â€

Others say that the credit check can be used to provide cover for discriminatory practices. Responding to complaints from constituents, lawmakers in a few states have recently proposed legislation that would restrict employers’ use of credit checks. While some measures languish, Hawaii has just imposed new restraints.

Business executives say that they have an obligation to be diligent and to protect themselves from employees who may be unreliable, unwise or too susceptible to temptation to steal, and that credit checks are a help.

“If I see too many negative things coming up on a credit check, it’s one of those things that raises a flag with me,†said Anita Orozco, director of human resources at Sonneborn, a petrochemical company based in Mahwah, N.J. She added that while bad credit alone would not be a reason to deny someone a job, it might reveal poor judgment.

“If you see a history of bad decision-making, you don’t want that decision-making overflowing into your organization,†she said.

The ultimate catch 22 is being created here!!!!

Get into debt and never have the ability to get out of it.

Obviously the one exception to this rule are highly paid directors whose bad decisions never count against them. Didn't all the ex directors of Railtrack do rather nicely and find employment, and of course bankers will be exempt as will politicians.

If your fiscally irresponsible with your money does that really make you a bad employee?

[eightiesgirly]

More default coming then, banks are gonna love that.

[Horridbloke]

Find something you're either good add or uncommonly willing to do and go self-employed. Where there's muck there's brass.

[this_prisoner_is_opting_out]

I do hope Anita's job is safe and secure...

Tbh if this is the direction it's heading in I won't even bother to fight - I shall throw my hands up, say f*ck it and look after myself and my own. I'd like to see them imprison me for a few bills - and even if they do - what the hell? It's hardly Laos.

[IP Newcomer]

This sounds terrible, but credit checks are a very good indicator to self discipline so whether you're the type of person who will turn up to work every day, etc. Is it likely to affect the unnemployed more than others, yes? But essentially gaps on the CV will affect them more.

[Pindar]

This sounds terrible, but credit checks are a very good indicator to self discipline so whether you're the type of person who will turn up to work every day, etc. Is it likely to affect the unnemployed more than others, yes? But essentially gaps on the CV will affect them more.

What utter bo110cks. Credit checks are what got us into this massive pile of debt in the first place. If reliable indicators of a persons integrity were used, we wouldn't have the highest levels of personal debt in the western world.

[Horridbloke]

This sounds terrible, but credit checks are a very good indicator to self discipline so whether you're the type of person who will turn up to work every day, etc. Is it likely to affect the unnemployed more than others, yes? But essentially gaps on the CV will affect them more.

Many employers already take too much interest in their minions. We have CRB checks which, by the way, include the fabled non-contestable "soft evidence".

Have you ever been briefly arrested and then released? Well, you're obviously dodgy then.

Have you ever been accused of something but not actually arrested or charged? (I know somebody who is trying legal action against the home office at the moment). Well, you're dodgy then.

Do you drink? How many units per week? Well, you're dodgy then.

Do you smoke? Well, you're dodgy then.

Ever had a rent payment go through late because the bank fvcked up? Well, you're dodgy then.

Speeding fine? Well, you're dodgy then.

Parking ticket? Well, you're dodgy then.

Does your datamined clothes shopping profile suggest a marked preference for artificial fibres? Well, you're dodgy then.

Does your shopping profile exceed the nationally recommended 28 units of alcohol per week more than twice in any twelve month period? Well, you're dodgy then.

From now on the aspiring young person's career paths are:

A) Be an embarrassingly well-behaved and lucky lady-dog.

Go self-employed.

[slurms mackenzie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/business...ml?ref=business

The ultimate catch 22 is being created here!!!!

Get into debt and never have the ability to get out of it.

Obviously the one exception to this rule are highly paid directors whose bad decisions never count against them. Didn't all the ex directors of Railtrack do rather nicely and find employment, and of course bankers will be exempt as will politicians.

If your fiscally irresponsible with your money does that really make you a bad employee?

Why not a credit cheque is cheaper than physcometric testing / iq tests yet will yield the same results.

[Horridbloke]

Why not a credit cheque is cheaper than physcometric testing / iq tests yet will yield the same results.

That is completely messed up and yet frighteningly true.

It's like the Mensa tests. If you apply then you fail, because obviously only idiots apply to join Mensa.

[Once in a lifetime]

Return of the stigma.

[Muffy]

That is completely messed up and yet frighteningly true.

It's like the Mensa tests. If you apply then you fail, because obviously only idiots apply to join Mensa.

Not sure how you come to this conclusion, but as a member of Mensa since 1993 I'd be interested to know, so that I can write to the members' monthly magazine about it.

It's a negative thing apparently to put Mensa membership on a CV, because employers don't like it.

I've had some hilarious conversations with people who get very bitter and twisted when Mensa is mentioned, and on behalf of the society it'd be interesting to hear your views.

Ta very much, like.

[Horridbloke]

Not sure how you come to this conclusion, but as a member of Mensa since 1993 I'd be interested to know, so that I can write to the members' monthly magazine about it.

It's a negative thing apparently to put Mensa membership on a CV, because employers don't like it.

I've had some hilarious conversations with people who get very bitter and twisted when Mensa is mentioned, and on behalf of the society it'd be interesting to hear your views.

Ta very much, like.

Okay then.

Many years ago I filled out a form and posted it off in response to one of those "If you can solve this you might be good enough to join MENSA!" adverts in a newspaper. I'm sorry, but I should explain I was young and foolish at the time.

A few days later I received a pack of bumph explaining how MENSA had many famous members, including TV personalities, and describing the possible social possibilities.

Let's not beat about the bush, it strongly implied I could go possibly go down the pub with Carol Vorderman. Seriously, she was name-checked.

All I had to do was undergo another test and pay another fee, equivalent to two or three weeks of food money at the time, and Carol would be mine.

This would have been around '93, so I guess you replied to the same advert. Did you get your way with Carol?

[impatient_mug]

I think I've said the above in every single thread moaning about how bankruptcy is an easy option. It's not.

I had to pass a credit check and bankruptcy search as part of my job, and the company I work for employes more than 25,000 people in the UK alone and that's just the permanent staff.

If you want to work again for anyone other than yourself, don't declare bankruptcy. This is good in a way - will teach people responsibility the hard way.

[ScaredEitherWay]

I recently went through a huge and full background check, it covered everything, every detail, going back a full 5 years. Credit checks, criminal checks, employment checks, address checks ... everything. The lot .... for a 4 week temp booking through an agency.

Nuts.

It took 2 weeks to get all the checks done.

Crazy mofos.

[impatient_mug]

I recently went through a huge and full background check, it covered everything, every detail, going back a full 5 years. Credit checks, criminal checks, employment checks, address checks ... everything. The lot .... for a 4 week temp booking through an agency.

Nuts.

It took 2 weeks to get all the checks done.

Crazy mofos.

That sounds like an SC check - one below the CT check. Note that this is different from the 'prove you're not a peado' check. Where I am you only have to do those if you want to work on Government work. I refuse that out of principle so haven't had to do one.

[ScaredEitherWay]

Not sure how you come to this conclusion, but as a member of Mensa since 1993 I'd be interested to know, so that I can write to the members' monthly magazine about it.

It's a negative thing apparently to put Mensa membership on a CV, because employers don't like it.

I've had some hilarious conversations with people who get very bitter and twisted when Mensa is mentioned, and on behalf of the society it'd be interesting to hear your views.

Ta very much, like.

I did a free sit down test on two occasions - must have been some marketing exercise. Passed each time, over 160 the scores were.

Never joined, I figured it was full of beardies and I was only about 19-21 and more into hotties with cars ... but mostly, I couldn't afford the fees.

Edited August 7, 2009 by ScaredEitherWay

[Garry AKA Pod]

From the MENSA website

Does Mensa Provide Intellectual Stimulation?

Think-two-three, think-two-three! Mensa provides intriguing ways to flex your mental muscles. You'll find intellectual resources in national magazines, in local newsletters, and at regional, national and international conventions.

Whatever your passion, there's almost certain to be a Special Interest Group (SIG) filled with other Mensans who share it! Mensa offers approximately 200 SIGs, in mind-boggling profusion from African Violets to zoology. Along the way you'll find microbiology, and systems analysis, but you'll also find Sherlock Holmes, chocolate and Star Trek. There are the expected: biochemistry, space science, economics -- and the unexpected: poker, roller-skating, scuba diving, UFOs and witchcraft. There are SIGs for breadmaking, winemaking, cartooning, silversmithing, and clowning. Heraldry, semantics and Egyptology co-exist with beekeeping, motorcycling and tap dancing. Sports SIGs cover the classics (baseball, basketball, and football) and the not-so-classic (skeet shooting, hang gliding, skydiving). And any Mensan who can't find a SIG to join can easily start one.

I'm quite sure that everything mentioned above has at some point been discussed on this site, plus we sometimes talk about faecal matters.

HPC 1 - 0 MENSA

[impatient_mug]

I recently went through a huge and full background check, it covered everything, every detail, going back a full 5 years. Credit checks, criminal checks, employment checks, address checks ... everything. The lot .... for a 4 week temp booking through an agency.

Nuts.

It took 2 weeks to get all the checks done.

Crazy mofos.

That sounds like an SC check - one below the CT check. Note that this is different from the 'prove you're not a peado' check. Where I am you only have to do those if you want to work on Government work. I refuse that out of principle so haven't had to do one.

EDIT - Sorry - double post - Virgin Media = teh suck.

Edited August 7, 2009 by impatient_mug

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

This sounds terrible, but credit checks are a very good indicator to self discipline so whether you're the type of person who will turn up to work every day, etc.

+1.

All the people I've worked with who've volunteered the information that they've had a major unsecured debt problem were unreliable, made poor decisions, took sickies when the going got tough, stirred the muck and played workplace politics relentlessly. If I was responsible for a company or organisation's recruitment policy, I'd certainly want to run a credit check on anyone I was thinking of employing. Whether it would be acceptable for me to do so or not is a separate question.

Edited August 7, 2009 by The Ayatollah Bugheri

[ScaredEitherWay]

That sounds like an SC check - one below the CT check. Note that this is different from the 'prove you're not a peado' check. Where I am you only have to do those if you want to work on Government work. I refuse that out of principle so haven't had to do one.

EDIT - Sorry - double post - Virgin Media = teh suck.

SC ... CT ... it's all a foreign language to me!

I did pass though, but now what use was it. It's not like I was given a bit of paper that said "You are perfect" to pass onto the next person with such strict criteria. I presume they'd do their own ... and I have already said to the agency "If I'd known, I'd have never agreed to all this faffing about" ... and in future I'll make sure not to bother with these types.

[impatient_mug]

SC ... CT ... it's all a foreign language to me!

I did pass though, but now what use was it. It's not like I was given a bit of paper that said "You are perfect" to pass onto the next person with such strict criteria. I presume they'd do their own ... and I have already said to the agency "If I'd known, I'd have never agreed to all this faffing about" ... and in future I'll make sure not to bother with these types.

SC is 'Security Clearance' and CT is 'Counter Terrorist'. Basically SC gets you in to any government account, and CT allows MOD work. Since you've done it, it would be worth getting your application number out of the agency - if it is what I'm talking about (and it sounds similar) it's valid for 10 years.

[Helena Handbasket]

+1.

All the people I've worked with who've volunteered the information that they've had a major unsecured debt problem were unreliable, made poor decisions, took sickies when the going got tough, stirred the muck and played workplace politics relentlessly. If I was responsible for a company or organisation's recruitment policy, I'd certainly want to run a credit check on anyone I was thinking of employing. Whether it would be acceptable for me to do so or not is a separate question.

Yes, totally agree. I too have actually imported all the data into a spreadsheet and run careful analysis. The following points are now clear:

1) I won't won't employ anyone from certain postcodes

2) Blondes are useless

3) Non-europeans are very unreliable

4) Men are best when it comes to selling skills

5) Never employ anyone you 'don't like the look of'

6) Females take more sick leave and talk too much in the office.

7) Poor management are worth every cent.

[impatient_mug]

Yes, totally agree. I too have actually imported all the data into a spreadsheet and run careful analysis. The following points are now clear:

1) I won't won't employ anyone from certain postcodes

2) Blondes are useless

3) Non-europeans are very unreliable

4) Men are best when it comes to selling skills

5) Never employ anyone you 'don't like the look of'

6) Females take more sick leave and talk too much in the office.

7) Poor management are worth every cent.

Have a virtual pint on me

[Ellie]

Have a virtual pint on me

and me! Sacasm is the best (and funniest) kind of wit

[Bloo Loo]

I recently went through a huge and full background check, it covered everything, every detail, going back a full 5 years. Credit checks, criminal checks, employment checks, address checks ... everything. The lot .... for a 4 week temp booking through an agency.

Nuts.

It took 2 weeks to get all the checks done.

Crazy mofos.

now, if we had ID cards, you could have got those checks done in milliseconds.......