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Danny Deflation

New British Id Card Cloned In 12 Minutes...

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Don't know if this article's already been posted (apologies if it has), but it evidently took a guy 12 minutes to clone one of our government's wonderful new "safe and secure" ID cards. It appears he used easily available technology and fairly rudimentary skills to produce a perfect copy - and to, more worryingly, program that copy with false data.

Put crudely: it won't be difficult for a criminal gang to produce an ID card carrying YOUR biometric information - once you have foolishly proferred your biometric data to our ever-so-honest government.

The article also makes reference to the 3000-odd blank passports that are still out in the ether. And let's not forget that the details of every adult and child held by the child benefits people is still out there in the public domain (they never did find out what happened there).

Anyone who still wants an ID card is bonkers (sorry, but I cannot think of any other explanation).

Quote from article:

...as I watch, Laurie picks up a mobile phone and, using just the handset and a laptop computer, electronically copies the ID card microchip and all its information in a matter of minutes.

He then creates a cloned card, and with a little help from another technology expert, he changes all the information the card contains - the physical details of the bearer, name, fingerprints and so on. And he doesn't stop there.

With a few more keystrokes on his computer, Laurie changes the cloned card so that whereas the original card holder was not entitled to benefits, the cloned chip now reads 'Entitled to benefits'.

As a chilling twist, he adds a message that would be visible to any police officer or security official who scanned the card: 'I am a terrorist - shoot on sight.'

Link to full article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0NUtj6PNa

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Does the fact that passports can be copied prevent you from owning one?

No. However if you do, you may have to prove your innocence after every time the copies are used to commit a crime. You will probably get a chance to do that after a period spent in custody if a false biometric match is involved. There will be no compensation, presumably because it will not cost you all that much money, and also because it is a simple matter to explain that sort of thing to your family and employer. And that is if you succeed.

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Does the fact that passports can be copied prevent you from owning one?

nope, but you can replace your passport, you can't replace your biometric details for new ones!

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Don't know if this article's already been posted (apologies if it has), but it evidently took a guy 12 minutes to clone one of our government's wonderful new "safe and secure" ID cards. It appears he used easily available technology and fairly rudimentary skills to produce a perfect copy - and to, more worryingly, program that copy with false data.

Put crudely: it won't be difficult for a criminal gang to produce an ID card carrying YOUR biometric information - once you have foolishly proferred your biometric data to our ever-so-honest government.

More bull from the daily wail. There simply isn't enough info to say if the system is broken or not. I think I will wait for a proper detailed analysis before taking this at face value.

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More bull from the daily wail. There simply isn't enough info to say if the system is broken or not. I think I will wait for a proper detailed analysis before taking this at face value.

So essentially you're going to trust this government. :-)

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This is the issue.

The media paint it as one of principle. I dont care about the principle, the govt already know way too much about me already with NI/driving license/passport. The fact alone that govt fcuks up every database it can get its hands on is enough to put me off. Its abuse and misuse thats the issue, not 'principle'

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Plus what about the pin/password thats only stored in the master DB as well.

It appears that the Home Office has already accepted there are problems with early versions of the cards.

The card that the journalist cracked used something called Basic Access Code (BAC) - this is what is being used to code the information on the cards currently being shat out by our hapless government. ZanuLabour, presumably aware of the security issues, is promsing to eventually start using something called Extended Access Code (EAC), which is supposedly harder to crack. More details are on this white paper if you can be arsed reading it: http://www.securitydocumentworld.com/clien...aper_210706.pdf

So. In a nutshell: if you really must get one of these plastic barcodes, then I would wait because, as the authorities openly admits, the present versions aren't up to scratch.

Turning into a bit of a farce, methinks.

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Aren't passports also biometric now? So I don't see what difference it makes if a biometric ID card is brought in, in addition to an existing biometric passport, and either are copied.

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I know the company who is going to host this "test" ID card DB et al... I am very concerned that they are involved - especially if they got the main contract for the full system (if it is introduced). They couldn't arrange a p1ss up in a proverbial brewery. I will have to be dragged kicking and screaming before I ever touch an ID card.

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So essentially you're going to trust this government. :-)

The government are totally and utterly untrustworthy.

The Daily Mail are worse.

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So essentially you're going to trust this government. :-)

Nope, I didn't say that. I just don't trust the Mail.

Cloning is a doddle. Changing data that can still be authenticated as genuine further up the cert chain is seriously high tech and would most likely mean a leak of a root cert. If the chain was cracked that would mean either a crap implementation (possible) or x.509 PKI was broken, and that is fecking serious.

It's the one DB to rule us all that I am scared of.

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Aren't passports also biometric now? So I don't see what difference it makes if a biometric ID card is brought in, in addition to an existing biometric passport, and either are copied.

Biometric passports are a misnomer. The photo is scanned to give a "biometric" data series. This was done to satisfy the yanks and serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. A biometric means literally a measurement of some biological feature. For example the distance between the pupils. The yanks insisted we had biometric passports or otherwise all UK citizens would need a visa to go to Disneyland to spend our money with the uppity colonists.

The proposed biometric cards will contain actual measured information (currently this will be fingerprint data). So you will have to visit the passport office in person and put your finger in the machine (people with no fingers will be imprisoned on the spot :D - no I made that up - christ knows what they will do about them). As it stands at the minute the passport photo can be posted into the passport office so no real data is collected that wasn't there already.

(My nearest Passport office is Paris. That's a €100+ train journey - I hope I can claim that back from the passport people? Maybe I'll not bother - only the Brits want to see it.)

The security issue is that your biometric data will be on the card. (Currently its only your photo). The thief now has biometric data about you that would otherwise not be the case.

Not sure how big a deal that is but I don't want the tracking database that goes with this cretious idea that will achieve nothing but further unrest. Like seatbelts, crash helmets and so on it will become mandatory after a while -that's the plan but they are too scared to say so.

Britain is not yet a Police state but this brings the possibility ever closer.

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I've go to go to work in a minute (:angry:) so I'll just quickly point this out:

So you will have to visit the passport office in person and put your finger in the machine (people with no fingers will be imprisoned on the spot :D - no I made that up - christ knows what they will do about them).

There is a medical condition which happens as a side effect of some drugs, where you 'lose' your fingerprints. The skin on your fingers quite literally becomes smooth. Now I wonder if this ever came up during the trials and what they're going to do about it if this is rolled out? Ask them to carry more ID like a driving license?

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It's the one DB to rule us all that I am scared of.

Exactly. Combine that with the inevitable bureaucratic incompetence and inflexibility, IT ****-ups, and some civil servant leaving a disc on a train and you have a recipe for a nightmare.

I've just spent 6 months fixing problems with my credit record on Experian - a database that didn't exist 20 years ago - and the experience has shown me what life in the UK under a single ID database will be like if there is an error in your record. Every time I applied for credit, mortgage, new bank account etc I got the same "sorry, Experian says you don't exist" line*. The database record wins every time, over any other kind of (paper) evidence.

Welcome to the world of "Computer says no!"

[*problem with my address recorded in Experian being subtly different from my postal address and that being subtly different from my electoral roll address]

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No different to bank cards in all honesty but there is a few flaws in the story, namely the printed data ie photo & signature wont match and the copy on the master database wont match the card.

Plus what about the pin/password thats only stored in the master DB as well.

I'd still go for one card that does all I need banking & ID uses though, less agro and a smaller wallet.

In time other biometric measures will also come down in price so dont be surprised to see speedbank machines which also take your photo when you use it, same for passport etc etc.

Doesn't really matter. Truth or not, they will ban you and drop your credit rating to zero. Now you can't move house, get a decent job or any kind of justice if you need it. If you complain they've made a mistake, well... you can always take them to court at your own expense. The public will see you as just another loser and think "They must have done something wrong".

You can't do anything now, and your MP won't touch your story as he's an non-exec director at the bank.

Good luck in your future (non) life. But you can be happy in that at least most people will be OK, just not you.

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I've go to go to work in a minute (:angry:) so I'll just quickly point this out:

There is a medical condition which happens as a side effect of some drugs, where you 'lose' your fingerprints. The skin on your fingers quite literally becomes smooth. Now I wonder if this ever came up during the trials and what they're going to do about it if this is rolled out? Ask them to carry more ID like a driving license?

I have yet to see any answer to this. I went to school with a lad that had thalidomide induced lack of legs and most fingers. He was (and still is) a really nice bloke and went on to drive a lorry and run a haulage business. Presumably he would have to use another body part. Retinal scans (abandoned as too expensive) for example. But then what of people with no eyes? (There are many - I worked for a blind persons' charity in my 20s)

Its unlikely people would lack the digits and the eyes but some must, so what of them?

Now lets go back to us overseas folk. Will the Paris passport office have both fingerprint and retinal scanners? Or will we have to go back to the UK to get our bar-code tattoo? Perhaps (most likely) overseas Brits will not have to have an ID card. So Mohammed al Ladin living in Afghanistan will get his passport renewed by post from Bangalore but Burt Scoggins from Wath on Dearne will have to take a day off work and drive to Leeds to have his prints taken.

I cannot make my mind up. There is either something sinister about the idea (control freak CCTV kind of thing) or the idiot government think the Daily Mail types want this rubbish to get rid of the foreigners. (The Mail is against it I believe - sadly mother in law reads its poisoned lies every day..)

Either way its a stupid idea and only morons want it and only people less intelligent than that think it will do anything other than end up a mess and be quietly shelved a few years later.

I really hope the serial liar and all round tw@t Cameron is going to keep his word about scrapping them, it is the silver lining to the cloud that awaits us post election. Maybe, like nobber Boris, he will not turn out to be as big a tit as we all think. I hope so.

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Biometric passports are a misnomer. The photo is scanned to give a "biometric" data series. This was done to satisfy the yanks and serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. A biometric means literally a measurement of some biological feature. For example the distance between the pupils. The yanks insisted we had biometric passports or otherwise all UK citizens would need a visa to go to Disneyland to spend our money with the uppity colonists.

The proposed biometric cards will contain actual measured information (currently this will be fingerprint data). So you will have to visit the passport office in person and put your finger in the machine (people with no fingers will be imprisoned on the spot :D - no I made that up - christ knows what they will do about them). As it stands at the minute the passport photo can be posted into the passport office so no real data is collected that wasn't there already.

(My nearest Passport office is Paris. That's a €100+ train journey - I hope I can claim that back from the passport people? Maybe I'll not bother - only the Brits want to see it.)

The security issue is that your biometric data will be on the card. (Currently its only your photo). The thief now has biometric data about you that would otherwise not be the case.

Not sure how big a deal that is but I don't want the tracking database that goes with this cretious idea that will achieve nothing but further unrest. Like seatbelts, crash helmets and so on it will become mandatory after a while -that's the plan but they are too scared to say so.

Britain is not yet a Police state but this brings the possibility ever closer.

Quite. Bio refers to life. One measurement is the start and end. HMG will have to wait for my end date because I am in no hurry to leave just yet.

These should be called physiometric or physiognomic passports.

p-o-p

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?

Now lets go back to us overseas folk. Will the Paris passport office have both fingerprint and retinal scanners? Or will we have to go back to the UK to get our bar-code tattoo? Perhaps (most likely) overseas Brits will not have to have an ID card. So Mohammed al Ladin living in Afghanistan will get his passport renewed by post from Bangalore but Burt Scoggins from Wath on Dearne will have to take a day off work and drive to Leeds to have his prints taken.

When the old black passports were no longer issued in the UK, they continued to be issued by overseas embassies/consulates for years. Maybe something similar will happen, these new requirements will require a hell of a lot of investment which I doubt will appear out of the blue.

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... these new requirements will require a hell of a lot of investment which I doubt will appear out of the blue.

Was that an intended pun?

Made me chuckle anyway - thanks for that :D

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