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Laura

Brown Broadcasting. - Manipulation Confirmed

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I had my doubts until the 1pm news today

The mind f-uck went something like this:-

"Rate on hold

QE to rise

Fragile recovery

& some reports that house prices will rise later this year". (or words similar)

He did say he would "do whatever it takes" & that obviously included mass mind manipulation <_<

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Guest absolutezero
I had my doubts until the 1pm news today

The mind f-uck went something like this:-

"Rate on hold

QE to rise

Fragile recovery

& some reports that house prices will rise later this year". (or words similar)

He did say he would "do whatever it takes" & that obviously included mass mind manipulation <_<

I was going to start a very similar topic after seeing this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8181945.stm

It starts with

The worst is over and house prices are rising again.

So rising house prices are obviously a good thing....

It touches on bearishness lower down but the headline is undoubtedly bullish.

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Guest UK Debt Slave
I had my doubts until the 1pm news today

The mind f-uck went something like this:-

"Rate on hold

QE to rise

Fragile recovery

& some reports that house prices will rise later this year". (or words similar)

He did say he would "do whatever it takes" & that obviously included mass mind manipulation <_<

Yeah. My head hurts too

I just spent lunchtime explaining to a work colleague why we are rapidly approaching bankruptcy and state failure.

Amazingly, he understood pretty readily why we are absolutely fekked beyond all recognition.

It really ain't rocket science is it?

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This is what kills me, the idea high house prices are a good idea. people moan like hell when the gas bill goes up 5% but they are quite happy to see massive house prices. Why? It's madness. What sort of society are we building where everyone will have to work until they drop dead so they can pay the majority of their wages every month to the bank.

I despair sometimes.

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This is what kills me, the idea high house prices are a good idea. people moan like hell when the gas bill goes up 5% but they are quite happy to see massive house prices. Why? It's madness. What sort of society are we building where everyone will have to work until they drop dead so they can pay the majority of their wages every month to the bank.

I despair sometimes.

I would love to see a proper public debate on this issue. Anyone who says that prices are too high are generally treated like some kind of idiot. But for many houndreds of thousands of people falling prices are good news.

The number of people at my work who sit about an complain about the price of something going up 10p in the supermarket is unbelievable. But dare to mention something about house prices being to high you get some crap about how I should have bought 10 years ago (they are right I should have, but I was financially not in a position to do so).

I suppose the illusion of wealth people have when they walk past a soliciters window and see a house on their street for £x more than they paid for thier own makes them feel wealthy destroying this illusion is what causes the problems, and thanks to 'no more boom and bust' Moron Brown people think now that it is sustainable.

edited - missed a vital word...

Edited by lulu

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Guest DisposableHeroes
I had my doubts until the 1pm news today

The mind f-uck went something like this:-

"Rate on hold

QE to rise

Fragile recovery

& some reports that house prices will rise later this year". (or words similar)

He did say he would "do whatever it takes" & that obviously included mass mind manipulation <_<

Ignore it.

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I would love to see a proper public debate on this issue. Anyone who says that prices are too high are generally treated like some kind of idiot. But for many houndreds of thousands of people falling prices are good news.

The number of people at my work who sit about an complain about the price of something going up 10p in the supermarket is unbelievable. But dare to mention something about house prices being to high you get some crap about how I should have bought 10 years ago (they are right I should have, but I was financially not in a position to do so).

I suppose the illusion of wealth people have when they walk past a soliciters window and see a house on their street for £x more than they paid for thier own makes them feel wealthy destroying this illusion is what causes the problems, and thanks to 'no more boom and bust' Moron Brown people think now that it is sustainable.

edited - missed a vital word...

yes...and house prices bring out the very worst side of humanity. The greed and selfishness. 'As long as house prices are going up I'm quids in...bugger all those who have been frozen out of the market'.

People used to buy homes, they now buy investments or substitute pensions. A real debate would be good but no politician has the guts to do what actually needs to be done with housing. For me it's one of the basic human needs - housing, food, clothing, fuel - and these things need to be regulated. You can buy cheap food and clothes if you like, and the utility companies are regulated to an extent (and if anyone does charge too much you can always switch), but with housing it is a completely unregulated set-up.

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If Labour were any good at mass mind manipulation we'd all be praising Brown for his great victories!

It's like how for years the conspiracy theorists were on about secret American electromagnetic weapons and mind control, yet they are battling against the Taliban by means of guns and travelling in lightly armored Hummers or Chinook helicopters, some of which probably saw service in the Vietnam war (I am open to correction on this).

Edited by blankster

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This is what kills me, the idea high house prices are a good idea. people moan like hell when the gas bill goes up 5% but they are quite happy to see massive house prices. Why? It's madness. What sort of society are we building where everyone will have to work until they drop dead so they can pay the majority of their wages every month to the bank.

I despair sometimes.

You have to admit it’s a lot smarter than putting us all in manacles and flogging us. [seemingly] Free men work harder than slaves.

All that hard work generates a lot of tax revenue and business activity, the fact that its destroying society seems irrelevant to the Government it seems.

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Well vested interest here. I have got a house up for sale (not in the UK) and quite happy to hear a bit of "green shoots" news until it sells. Don't believe a word of it myself.

Edited by HostPaul TAFKA Rover2000

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I have got a house up for sale (not in the UK) and quite happy to happy a bit of "green shoots" news until it sells.

OK Paul. I propose we all go into 'Sibley Mode' until it is sold, then revert to

to

to

to (how do I get out of this loop?)

to

help! :(

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OK Paul. I propose we all go into 'Sibley Mode' until it is sold, then revert to

to

to

to (how do I get out of this loop?)

to

help! :(

Hmm I could remain a Bear on here, and be a Bull on "the other place." :lol:

Only kidding!

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OK Paul. I propose we all go into 'Sibley Mode' until it is sold, then revert to

to

to

to (how do I get out of this loop?)

to

help! :(

You can't. They will keep inventing new things to feck everyone over. Kool-Aid anyone?*

For what it's worth, I own my property outright and think it's an absolute complete total outrage that anyone in their right minds thinks rising property prices are good. You have to be MENTAL to think they are. My place would still be overpriced if it were half the value and i would be happier if it were.

* The phrase Drinking the Kool-Aid means to become a firm believer in something, to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly

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yes...and house prices bring out the very worst side of humanity. The greed and selfishness. 'As long as house prices are going up I'm quids in...bugger all those who have been frozen out of the market'.

People used to buy homes, they now buy investments or substitute pensions. A real debate would be good but no politician has the guts to do what actually needs to be done with housing. For me it's one of the basic human needs - housing, food, clothing, fuel - and these things need to be regulated. You can buy cheap food and clothes if you like, and the utility companies are regulated to an extent (and if anyone does charge too much you can always switch), but with housing it is a completely unregulated set-up.

but planning permission is highly regulated - did you think of this?

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* The phrase Drinking the Kool-Aid means to become a firm believer in something, to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly

Jonestown?

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I would love to see a proper public debate on this issue. Anyone who says that prices are too high are generally treated like some kind of idiot. But for many houndreds of thousands of people falling prices are good news.

The number of people at my work who sit about an complain about the price of something going up 10p in the supermarket is unbelievable. But dare to mention something about house prices being to high you get some crap about how I should have bought 10 years ago (they are right I should have, but I was financially not in a position to do so).

I suppose the illusion of wealth people have when they walk past a soliciters window and see a house on their street for £x more than they paid for thier own makes them feel wealthy destroying this illusion is what causes the problems, and thanks to 'no more boom and bust' Moron Brown people think now that it is sustainable.

edited - missed a vital word...

Once you are the mortgage holder of a dwelling, will you think higher house prices are a good idea?

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I would love to see a proper public debate on this issue. Anyone who says that prices are too high are generally treated like some kind of idiot. But for many houndreds of thousands of people falling prices are good news.

The number of people at my work who sit about an complain about the price of something going up 10p in the supermarket is unbelievable. But dare to mention something about house prices being to high you get some crap about how I should have bought 10 years ago (they are right I should have, but I was financially not in a position to do so).

I suppose the illusion of wealth people have when they walk past a soliciters window and see a house on their street for £x more than they paid for thier own makes them feel wealthy destroying this illusion is what causes the problems, and thanks to 'no more boom and bust' Moron Brown people think now that it is sustainable.

edited - missed a vital word...

I think you don't really understand how the UK economy works.

In a normally functioning economy, low house prices and low taxes would encourage investment in productive enterprise and productive labour.

This is not the picture in the UK. The UK has an economy based on rising asset values, easy credit and consumption - not on productive investment. The stall in HPI has put a total stop to the UK economic miracle where people can buy more and more stuff without earning the money first.

The collapse of the consumer driven economy makes consumers poorer and credit harder and leads to further collapse.

The people who look forward to rising house prices are hoping the perpetual motion machine can be made to work for just a bit longer - perhaps until the next election or the discovery of a technology that will make the West incredibly rich with no need for anyone to work - like making gold from base metal or capturing a planet and enslaving the population to work for us (whichever comes sooner). Either way there is no plan B for the UK

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yes...and house prices bring out the very worst side of humanity. The greed and selfishness. 'As long as house prices are going up I'm quids in...bugger all those who have been frozen out of the market'.

People used to buy homes, they now buy investments or substitute pensions. A real debate would be good but no politician has the guts to do what actually needs to be done with housing. For me it's one of the basic human needs - housing, food, clothing, fuel - and these things need to be regulated. You can buy cheap food and clothes if you like, and the utility companies are regulated to an extent (and if anyone does charge too much you can always switch), but with housing it is a completely unregulated set-up.

Its a very interesting debate. A good news story about housing involves house prices going up. House prices falling is reported as a bad news story. Why is this?

The answer may be in who benefits from rising prices. In Northern Ireland there are 750 house holds with over 80% privately owned = 600,000 . At 2.3 people to a house equates to 1.4m = 78% of the population are living in a privately owned house. Perhaps only half of these have mortgages and only say a quarter of these (I guess) are near negative equity.

You can talk all day to people about been cheaper to move up with lower prices, less Inheritance tax, cheaper for children to buy a house but most of these people want their houses to stop falling in value and even to commence rising again. The ones without mortgages or with very low mortgages may not pay attention to this issue but few of them would wish prices would fall.

First time buyers, on the other hand do benefit greatly by the first step of the ladder lowering. IN NI that's about 8,000 people per year. With few buying this last few years and others priced out, during the boom you might say there is pent up demand of say 20,000 first time buyers who would benefit. Who else benefits - people moving up, yes the cash difference will be less but the ability to 'gear up' on the equity accumulated is greatly reduced so falling prices, even if they are not in neg equity can still trap them.

You could say lowering prices will increase demand and generate more sales but if builders are building and selling at a loss they cant continue. The land is already banked at high levels and allot tied up in pension funds and other institutions. The unwinding of this can have far reaching implications on people who never even considered buying property. The true extent of this will never be revealed. So apart from the obvious benefit that the out priced FTB's gain it can be difficult to see the economic good from falling prices. Don't get me wrong falling prices are essential after a boom and the sooner it corrects the better. I am just commenting on why rising is always 'good' in the media and falling is 'bad'.

In the example mentioned above - falling gas prices would be reported as good, and so would falling milk prices. That is as long as you weren't a farmer or in the gas industry. The point is the majority of people in N Ireland, and I'm sure the UK are living in privately owned houses. Either owned by themselves or their parents and they, like the farmer or the gas reseller don't always welcome the falls as much as the purchaser. So much(too much) of the country's wealth(private and instatutional/imagined or real) is tied up in bricks and mortar. A fall in this, whether needed or not, reduced the nett wealth of the country. This removes the potential spending power of the nation and slows dramatically the wheels of commerce.

You also have the election to think of.

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This is what kills me, the idea high house prices are a good idea. people moan like hell when the gas bill goes up 5% but they are quite happy to see massive house prices. Why? It's madness. What sort of society are we building where everyone will have to work until they drop dead so they can pay the majority of their wages every month to the bank.

I despair sometimes.

its all a big scam to keep the ponzi momentum going, and consumers spending. imo a 3 bed semi-det house with a decent sized garden should not cost more than £80K in London, £60K in the rest of the South, £50K up north, and £30K in Scotland and Wales. very simplistic but looking at average salaries it makes sense. ironically if people didnt have to dangerously overstretch to repay a mortgage or stupidly high rent, they would have more money to prop up the consumer economy! then the govt have their moderate retail inflation that they so desire and can up rates again if it gets out of hand. rates should be 3% now and 5% by Q4 to keep things in control, but instead they opt for steroid economic stimulation which is likely to end in serious tears before bedtime in their hurry for the quick fix pre-election day.

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Quite a few threads as I scan through the past few days with people sounding increasingly worried that there will not be an end to the upturn, that Hpc is not going to resume any day soon.

Certainly the news continues hyper bullish .....people must, on the back of the reporting... be rushing out to buy before prices start inflating .......if they can get a mortgage! Yet everyone keeps saying the figures are built on VERY LOW transactions....AND that buyers want 25 - 30% below peak.....or indeed valuations are coming in 25 - 30% off peak but how true is this? Are there LOADS of buyers , if they can get the finance , more than happy to pay 2007 values and carry on paying in the belief that property prices will start to escalate? Are the low transactions only down to buyers being unable to get the finance? Or are buyers aware of the market they are buying into and wanting values to reflect that uncertainty. What is the true here?

Certainly there still seems to be a stand off between sellers/ EA's and buyers , it doesn't look like a functioning market even if the odd house is going through to completion. £50bn QE isn't going to make much difference is it to the property market......so are we just at the tail end of the bull trap.......the point where people forget it is a bull trap.......until there is a minus 0.1% downturn ....and the green shoots of summer start to turn brown.....

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its all a big scam to keep the ponzi momentum going, and consumers spending. imo a 3 bed semi-det house with a decent sized garden should not cost more than £80K in London, £60K in the rest of the South, £50K up north, and £30K in Scotland and Wales. very simplistic but looking at average salaries it makes sense. ironically if people didnt have to dangerously overstretch to repay a mortgage or stupidly high rent, they would have more money to prop up the consumer economy! then the govt have their moderate retail inflation that they so desire and can up rates again if it gets out of hand. rates should be 3% now and 5% by Q4 to keep things in control, but instead they opt for steroid economic stimulation which is likely to end in serious tears before bedtime in their hurry for the quick fix pre-election day.

You forgot to add that lower house prices would lead to lower wage inflation which would lead to cheaper products and a more competitive economy able to compete with other countries, earning more money from exports and attracting more inward investment as the UK would be a more profitable place to site a business.

Who could possibly think that any of that could be a good idea???? ;)

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The people have been brainwashed into thinking they are better off owning 60% of a £250k house instead of 100% of the same house valued at £100k.

Well someone has to pay for those bank bonuses (via larger longer mortgages meaning more interest ) and MP expenses (stamp duty, inheritance tax). What would the people do with all that extra disposable income anyway? They would probably just spend it.

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but planning permission is highly regulated - did you think of this?

Kill the regulators ! end of problom and if it's what the public wants then it's fine by me.

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