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Joey Buttafueco Jr

New Car Sales Up Yoy

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This story has hit also the headlines today on the Brown Broadcasting Corporation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8186992.stm

Anyway, got me thinking of using the scrappage scheme to lever a deal on a new car. Interestingly, some of the dealers highlighted that they didn't expect it to last longer than the end of September rather than the longer timescales in the report. Therefore, I was unsurprisingly told to be quick and get an order in!

Some of the delivery dates for cars I wanted were around the 12 to 16 weeks (Golf, Audi A3) and I asked if I did wait, could the vehicle be delivered as a 2010 registered vehicle; presuming that a 2010 vehicle is worth more or more desirable than a 2009 one? The majority of dealers said yes, but when I highlighted that VAT was going back up to 17.5% on 1 January 2010, they said that the price paid would be the VAT rate at time of delivery, not at time of order.

The dealers that I spoke to had not considered the VAT issue and they accepted that it could have a significant affect on new car sales from next year. Guess if you are thinking of using the scrappage scheme, it'll be time to get in before it ends and can get delivery of the vehicle before the VAT rate increases. Not long now before we return to seeing headlines showing new car sales have once again been decimated.

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This story has hit also the headlines today on the Brown Broadcasting Corporation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8186992.stm

Anyway, got me thinking of using the scrappage scheme to lever a deal on a new car. Interestingly, some of the dealers highlighted that they didn't expect it to last longer than the end of September rather than the longer timescales in the report. Therefore, I was unsurprisingly told to be quick and get an order in!

Some of the delivery dates for cars I wanted were around the 12 to 16 weeks (Golf, Audi A3) and I asked if I did wait, could the vehicle be delivered as a 2010 registered vehicle; presuming that a 2010 vehicle is worth more or more desirable than a 2009 one? The majority of dealers said yes, but when I highlighted that VAT was going back up to 17.5% on 1 January 2010, they said that the price paid would be the VAT rate at time of delivery, not at time of order.

The dealers that I spoke to had not considered the VAT issue and they accepted that it could have a significant affect on new car sales from next year. Guess if you are thinking of using the scrappage scheme, it'll be time to get in before it ends and can get delivery of the vehicle before the VAT rate increases. Not long now before we return to seeing headlines showing new car sales have once again been decimated.

stimulus is what stimulus does.

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This story has hit also the headlines today on the Brown Broadcasting Corporation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8186992.stm

Anyway, got me thinking of using the scrappage scheme to lever a deal on a new car. Interestingly, some of the dealers highlighted that they didn't expect it to last longer than the end of September rather than the longer timescales in the report. Therefore, I was unsurprisingly told to be quick and get an order in!

Some of the delivery dates for cars I wanted were around the 12 to 16 weeks (Golf, Audi A3) and I asked if I did wait, could the vehicle be delivered as a 2010 registered vehicle; presuming that a 2010 vehicle is worth more or more desirable than a 2009 one? The majority of dealers said yes, but when I highlighted that VAT was going back up to 17.5% on 1 January 2010, they said that the price paid would be the VAT rate at time of delivery, not at time of order.

The dealers that I spoke to had not considered the VAT issue and they accepted that it could have a significant affect on new car sales from next year. Guess if you are thinking of using the scrappage scheme, it'll be time to get in before it ends and can get delivery of the vehicle before the VAT rate increases. Not long now before we return to seeing headlines showing new car sales have once again been decimated.

Ive posted this a million times but it bears repitition. The Focus i got pre scrappage, completely wipes the floor with ANY currently available model under the sceme.

Extras, finance, APR (0%), deposit, monthly payment, cash price, balloon. Everything.

Its a total scam.

Witness Fiat, of all people, suddenly charging 5%on their finance. I dont remember that happening in my lifetime.

SCAM.

EDIT. ******ing wireless keyboard.

Edited by shindigger

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Ive posted this a million times but it bears repitition. The Focus i got pre scrappage, completely wipes the floor with ANY currently available model under the sceme.

Extras, finance, APR (0%), deposit, monthly payment, cash price, balloon. Everything.

Its a total scam.

Witness Fiat, of all people, suddenly charging 5%on their finance. I dont remeber that happening in my lifetime.

SCAM.

EDIT. ******ing wireless keyboard.

yep, sales and marketing is an art. scrappage gets them in, sales chat and the new car smell does the rest.

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you actually believe this? :lol:

I will remind you, there have been no arrests, no prosecutions, with regard to our fraudulent economy.

The brownbroadcasting corporations license fee is protected, trust no "report"

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you actually believe this? :lol:

I will remind you, there have been no arrests, no prosecutions, with regard to our fraudulent economy.

The brownbroadcasting corporations license fee is protected, trust no "report"

All thats happened is that cars are £2k dearer than a year ago.

I dont care how many they've sold. :)

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Ive posted this a million times but it bears repitition. The Focus i got pre scrappage, completely wipes the floor with ANY currently available model under the sceme.

Extras, finance, APR (0%), deposit, monthly payment, cash price, balloon. Everything.

Its a total scam.

Witness Fiat, of all people, suddenly charging 5%on their finance. I dont remember that happening in my lifetime.

SCAM.

EDIT. ******ing wireless keyboard.

Support your points 110% for the Focus. However, try doing it on certain Audis, a Volvo or even certain models of the Golf and you'll be hard pressed to beat the prices with scrappage - VW dealer highlighted that the Scappage Scheme had devalued their product!

For example and with scrappage, I also looked at a Volvo C30 1.6 DRIVe S Diesel that was offered at exactly the same price by 2 dealers for £11918, but the What Car target price is £14468; price difference of £2550. Whilst I appreciate that the What Car Target price is not the lowest price available, it is a reasonable indicator and is not far from some of the internet prices I've found. However, as I stated earlier, I fully agree that better deals are available on certain brands.

Edited by The_Stars_Are_Aligning

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I've ordered a Hyundai i10. 2 month waiting list. My 1995 Cavalier diesel is still running but just about. List price did not go up £2k, but it did go up from £6995 to £7200. However, the car using scrappage is still £4995. You can't get a used one for that. I agree that anything over £10k is a waste using scrappage 'cos you'll get a better deal.

Yes I know it's foreign, yes it'll soon be common 'cos so many have done the same and yes it's small but that is a good deal. No haggling, no 'what will you throw in', that's the price, do you want one? Spot on.

Edited for typos and to add: In principle it's a pants idea, but I'm using it. Most of the money is going out of the country, but there is no way I would ever buy a new car otherwise. Hope it has that new car smell.

Edited by deflation

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you actually believe this? :lol:

I will remind you, there have been no arrests, no prosecutions, with regard to our fraudulent economy.

The brownbroadcasting corporations license fee is protected, trust no "report"

Yup :P I mean... they sold 23 cars last quarter [or whatever] - and they've sold 26 this quarter.....

BIG F&CKING :rolleyes: DEAL!!!!!

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Support your points 110% for the Focus. However, try doing it on certain Audis, a Volvo or even certain models of the Golf and you'll be hard pressed to beat the prices with scrappage - VW dealer highlighted that the Scappage Scheme had devalued their product!

For example and with scrappage, I also looked at a Volvo C30 1.6 DRIVe S Diesel that was offered at exactly the same price by 2 dealers for �11918, but the What Car target price is �14468; price difference of �2550. Whilst I appreciate that the What Car Target price is not the lowest price available, it is a reasonable indicator and is not far from some of the internet prices I've found. However, as I stated earlier, I fully agree that better deals are available on certain brands.

I take the point on the Volvo.

Actually looks good value and looks like a car that someone might actually want to buy. But nobody is holding a gun to their head to sell at a loss. The flip side is Fiat and their 5% however.

They had nowhere to go on a car that was already only £5.5k. So they just hiked the finance to get it all back.

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All thats happened is that cars are £2k dearer than a year ago.

I dont care how many they've sold. :)

All that's happened is that future demand has been dragged forward. Demand that won't be there in the future now. All to be paid for by the little children currently enjoying the summer sunshine. Something for them to look forward to.

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All that's happened is that future demand has been dragged forward. Demand that won't be there in the future now. All to be paid for by the little children currently enjoying the summer sunshine. Something for them to look forward to.

+1

There seems to have been a lot of pulling forward government spending (the budget of the next government!), and attempting to pull forward consumer demand. This creates a vacuum effect down the road, tons of debt and the feeling of having been done. Perhaps we'll all blame the Tories, the b@stards!

Though wasn't the whole MEW/GDP growth about pulling forward demand, and spending money not yet earned.

Immoral and disingenuous.

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Here's da truth :)

OK... some brands are up. Mainly small cars from foreign brands like that Hyundai. President of Korea will be very happy, the British taxpayer and public supporting the Korean, East European and Indian economy like this (where the cheap little cars are built).

Lee Myung-Bak, Pesident of South Korea would like to express his thanks to Baron Mandelson of Foy in the county of Herefordshire and Hartlepool in the county of Durham and the right Honourable Alistair Darling and Prime Minister Brown, for the wholehearted support the British Government, UK Motor Industry and Great British public has shown to the People of the Republic of (South) Korea during the greatest World financial crisis for a century.

"Without the remarkable willingness of all the British nation's people to support Korean goods, manufacturing, jobs and balance of payments, we would be facing a much stickier financial wicket stuck between the Twin Evils of Japan and the People's Nutty Republic of North Korea. Luckily, with all the British taxpayer support, we can invest in the future of our beautiful American protectorate nation, ex-President Clinton and nuclear missile shields. Thank you, people of Britain for spending all your own money and the British people's taxpayer money on those wonderful Hyundai i10s".

big.jpg

This causes a supply problem for these importers, soon they will run out of stock. You cannot just magic RHD cars like that. Factory production is booked a year in advance. As stock gets thinner discounts will lessen.

The UK scrappage scheme accounted for 21% of July's registration total with 33,026 units registered. That means that the underlying problem (without the scheme) still exists.

If small cars are up by a massive proportion (of the whole) in July, it stands to reason that larger more profitable cars are still down massively. But it is worse than that. If you say that a large car is roughly 2.5 times the value of a basic car (conservative estimate), you will see that counting the number of sales is nonsense, the overall VALUE of the sales will have decreased massively (again), therefore profit, cashflow and margin is reduced. Gettit? This scheme is all spin and rubbish.

Prices have gone up on some brands three times this year. Discounts being offered on the scrappage scheme means that all but the smallest cars are significantly more expensive than last year.

Most discounts are simply renamed existing discounts, FIAT were guilty of this when their existing "eco" discount on a Panda Eco overnight turned into a "scrappage" discount. No extra money was offered. For a time, two identical adverts were running, with a word find/replace. A joke. Not to say that there aren't some cheaper cars, but they are lead-in versions of basic small cars, like that i10, Picanto and stuff like that.

VAT: VAT depends on invoice date, it should go back to 17.5% (maybe up to 20%???) on Dec 1st, I believe. The VAT decrease leat year meant dealers could retain more profit, we did not see new car prices going down overnight last year. I bet the VAT rise WILL be passed on though. On my cars VAT is levied when rentals become due,so they (all) went down last year, they (all) will go up in Dec 09.

It is just reported that up to 50,000 cars meant to be scrapped under a German scrappage scheme have been illegally sold abroad instead, the country's police union says.

All of this tends to indicate to me that some sales have been brought forward, the few people with a 10 year old car who can trade it in against the cheapest new thing possible. It does nothing to assist the market, as the part exchange cars are crushed and there is no drip-down into the used car trade. There is also no profit opportunity for the new car dealer on re-selling the PX car, so the new car sale is a very singular success. This is reducing the UK used car-parc, and is pushing prices of used cars up! Next time you try and buy one, thank the scheme supporters. This price yo-yo helps no one. These are cars, not houses, you cannot class them as investments, they are unstable depreciating assets.

Year-on-year used car values are now up UKP 1,079 per car or 21.8% per car ahead of July 2008, reflecting both that values were falling sharply this time last year, and that 2009 has seen sustained improvements in value. Performance against CAP guide has risen for the third straight month and is again averaging over 100% of Clean values for all stock. Remarkable. This underlines that demand continues to outstrip supply for used cars.

Adrian Rushmore, managing editor of GlassGuide.co.uk ,says: "Prices for the limited number of late-plate used cars for sale have climbed by up to 25% so far this year. The growing concern for dealers is that consumers will not accept the transfer of these higher trade prices to retail asking prices. In order to maintain turnover, many dealers are now accepting slightly shorter margins to ensure ongoing business. The trend has been repeated in the market for older second-hand cars, where similarly limited supply has driven up prices."

So, supporters of this scheme... enjoy your cheaper Korean microbox, while everyone else has to pay more. Screwing around with market economics like this has long term repercussions.

Does my analysis help? It is biased against scrapping, but valid I think.

Edited by LINGsCARS.com

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Yep

Thanks to scrappage we beat our monthly sales record.

Not that we sell that many cars on scrappage because more often than not our discounts wipe the floor with any gubmint scheme, oh and our discounts are available to everyone PX or no PX

Check my profile if want to know where.

Edited by Jin

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I for one am pleased that new car sales have picked up. I was getting a bit worried as I tend to get second hand cars - ex fleet or lease (hello Ling ;-) ) are generally my target. Pick up a supposed 'premium' car - my last two cars were a 328 then a 330 (yes - hardly the height of luxury but I buy them to drive, not to look at) and you can generally get them for 50-60% off the initial price from a supermarket. You need to catch up with the servicing and there's always the risk of a major fault but so far I've been lucky.

With new car sales dropping I was getting worried it would impact the second hand market - £516/month for a fully loaded 330Ci is plain silly - I just hope this temporary pick-up continues.

EDIT - Why oh why does 'quick edit' always insert a  before any £ signs???

Edited by impatient_mug

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Here's da truth :)

OK... some brands are up. Mainly small cars from foreign brands like that Hyundai. President of Korea will be very happy, the British taxpayer and public supporting the Korean, East European and Indian economy like this (where the cheap little cars are built).

Lee Myung-Bak, Pesident of South Korea would like to express his thanks to Baron Mandelson of Foy in the county of Herefordshire and Hartlepool in the county of Durham and the right Honourable Alistair Darling and Prime Minister Brown, for the wholehearted support the British Government, UK Motor Industry and Great British public has shown to the People of the Republic of (South) Korea during the greatest World financial crisis for a century.

"Without the remarkable willingness of all the British nation's people to support Korean goods, manufacturing, jobs and balance of payments, we would be facing a much stickier financial wicket stuck between the Twin Evils of Japan and the People's Nutty Republic of North Korea. Luckily, with all the British taxpayer support, we can invest in the future of our beautiful American protectorate nation, ex-President Clinton and nuclear missile shields. Thank you, people of Britain for spending all your own money and the British people's taxpayer money on those wonderful Hyundai i10s".

big.jpg

This causes a supply problem for these importers, soon they will run out of stock. You cannot just magic RHD cars like that. Factory production is booked a year in advance. As stock gets thinner discounts will lessen.

The UK scrappage scheme accounted for 21% of July's registration total with 33,026 units registered. That means that the underlying problem (without the scheme) still exists.

If small cars are up by a massive proportion (of the whole) in July, it stands to reason that larger more profitable cars are still down massively. But it is worse than that. If you say that a large car is roughly 2.5 times the value of a basic car (conservative estimate), you will see that counting the number of sales is nonsense, the overall VALUE of the sales will have decreased massively (again), therefore profit, cashflow and margin is reduced. Gettit? This scheme is all spin and rubbish.

Prices have gone up on some brands three times this year. Discounts being offered on the scrappage scheme means that all but the smallest cars are significantly more expensive than last year.

Most discounts are simply renamed existing discounts, FIAT were guilty of this when their existing "eco" discount on a Panda Eco overnight turned into a "scrappage" discount. No extra money was offered. For a time, two identical adverts were running, with a word find/replace. A joke. Not to say that there aren't some cheaper cars, but they are lead-in versions of basic small cars, like that i10, Picanto and stuff like that.

VAT: VAT depends on invoice date, it should go back to 17.5% (maybe up to 20%???) on Dec 1st, I believe. The VAT decrease leat year meant dealers could retain more profit, we did not see new car prices going down overnight last year. I bet the VAT rise WILL be passed on though. On my cars VAT is levied when rentals become due,so they (all) went down last year, they (all) will go up in Dec 09.

It is just reported that up to 50,000 cars meant to be scrapped under a German scrappage scheme have been illegally sold abroad instead, the country's police union says.

All of this tends to indicate to me that some sales have been brought forward, the few people with a 10 year old car who can trade it in against the cheapest new thing possible. It does nothing to assist the market, as the part exchange cars are crushed and there is no drip-down into the used car trade. There is also no profit opportunity for the new car dealer on re-selling the PX car, so the new car sale is a very singular success. This is reducing the UK used car-parc, and is pushing prices of used cars up! Next time you try and buy one, thank the scheme supporters. This price yo-yo helps no one. These are cars, not houses, you cannot class them as investments, they are unstable depreciating assets.

Year-on-year used car values are now up UKP 1,079 per car or 21.8% per car ahead of July 2008, reflecting both that values were falling sharply this time last year, and that 2009 has seen sustained improvements in value. Performance against CAP guide has risen for the third straight month and is again averaging over 100% of Clean values for all stock. Remarkable. This underlines that demand continues to outstrip supply for used cars.

Adrian Rushmore, managing editor of GlassGuide.co.uk ,says: "Prices for the limited number of late-plate used cars for sale have climbed by up to 25% so far this year. The growing concern for dealers is that consumers will not accept the transfer of these higher trade prices to retail asking prices. In order to maintain turnover, many dealers are now accepting slightly shorter margins to ensure ongoing business. The trend has been repeated in the market for older second-hand cars, where similarly limited supply has driven up prices."

So, supporters of this scheme... enjoy your cheaper Korean microbox, while everyone else has to pay more. Screwing around with market economics like this has long term repercussions.

Does my analysis help? It is biased against scrapping, but valid I think.

Nice one Ling. Did you also notice Fiat are suddenly charging 5% on their finance for the first time in years?

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Nice one Ling. Did you also notice Fiat are suddenly charging 5% on their finance for the first time in years?

Oh, despite 0.5% base rate! Yes. Is that 1000% of the base rate? Do I have my maths right? I can hardly believe it.

There is clear profiteering going on in this industry. Car companies are milking increased interest due to the scrappage scheme in order to push people into highly-profitable (read expensive) deals. Confusion marketing reigns. Customers are blinded by greed at grabbing the UKP1000+UKP1000 "discounts". Of course in most cases that's nonsense, most discounts were available before scrappage, before price rises.

Finance companies are deliberately rejecting many in order to force up profitable higher rates. My own "decline" rate has shot up, perfectly good customers are having to look at semi-sub prime or silly rates. This is NOT good for the economy, just good for those milking it.

People are left with negative equity, higher balances and cars that are more expensive (new AND used). When used car priced eventually fall-back, people will be left with even more massive neg-equity. How is this good for the economy in general? Shame all most people see are the "scrappage" "good-news" headlines.

In fact, it's bad news.

Grrr.

Edited by LINGsCARS.com

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Oh, despite 0.5% base rate! Yes. Is that 1000% of the base rate? Do I have my maths right? I can hardly believe it.

There is clear profiteering going on in this industry. Car companies are milking increased interest due to the scrappage scheme in order to push people into highly-profitable (read expensive) deals. Confusion marketing reigns. Customers are blinded by greed at grabbing the UKP1000+UKP1000 "discounts". Of course in most cases that's nonsense, most discounts were available before scrappage, before price rises.

Finance companies are deliberately rejecting many in order to force up profitable higher rates. My own "decline" rate has shot up, perfectly good customers are having to look at semi-sub prime or silly rates. This is NOT good for the economy, just good for those milking it.

People are left with negative equity, higher balances and cars that are more expensive (new AND used). When used car priced eventually fall-back, people will be left with even more massive neg-equity. How is this good for the economy in general? Shame all most people see are the "scrappage" "good-news" headlines.

In fact, it's bad news.

Grrr.

course, money costs lenders much more than 0.5%, so its not true they are passing massive margins.

market costs for money I gather is nearer 3.5%.

so is now a good time to exchange my 6 year old 78K toyota for a new one. still very comfortable paid for, 500 miles on a petrol tank?

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