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Britain's I T Industry Laid Off. Shore.

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IT Jobs Buффеring Offshore

IT Job Board Provides Some Numbers

This month, Silicon.com reported that even the UK government is considering offshoring a cost saving measure. Silicon went on to say, this trend could lead to an age where we no longer have the skills or the infrastructure to support technology business or large-scale technology departments within the UK. This is a frightening reality for the UK IT industry given it represents 10% of the countries GDP.

But just how widespread is IT offshoring for the UK and is it really damaging the UK IT industry? Our latest research aimed to answer these exact questions.

How real is the problem?

64.1% of respondents to our survey said that their company had offshored IT functions in the past six months, and it seems that it isn'€™t just a few roles going abroad.

Nearly 60% of companies offshoring have moved at least a third of IT functions overseas, and 34% have offshored more than half of their IT department. This research indicates how significant the pressure is for companies to cut costs to compensate for lost revenues, and is one of the key reasons we have seen a decline of 57% of IT jobs offered year on year.

Where and what are companies offshoring?

Of those partaking in offshoring, 80% had done so to India in the past 6 months.

There are no surprises that the majority of organisations that had offshored in the past six months, had outsourced software development and programming (approximately 75%). This was followed closely by administrators and support roles, which came in at 48.3% and 67.1%.

Is it worth it?

Long term we share the same view as Silicon: '€œIt is not hard to see that this offshoring trend does nothing to the future of British industry, ideas, innovation and ingenuity. These trends will cripple Britain's ability to ever be a true leader in IT and will deteriorate its reputation and capacity in the eyes of the world.€Â'

Not to worry. Gordon is creating thousands of non-jobs in the public sector. And you can't outsource loft lagging!

Edited by copydude

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Just recruited a new person for my team (internal ICT dept).

advert for one week on Jobserve = >60 applicants.

do you work in education?

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Thank goodness I work in compliance and IT security.

No-one will outsource that to Chindia quickly.

Yes, the writings been on the wall for a number of years. Anyone in IT should have actively been looking for the niches and domain knowledge that need to be kept local.

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I used to be of the opinion that off shoring to India wouldn't succeed as the Indians are crap, and generally fail at everything they touch.

I still think they are crap, but now know off shoring will continue to increase, as UK managers just don't care. They are more interested in the short term and getting their yearly bonus, they don’t care that the company fails behind them, they just move to somewhere else to inflict their great ideas.

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Guest anorthosite
Yes, the writings been on the wall for a number of years. Anyone in IT should have actively been looking for the niches and domain knowledge that need to be kept local.

Sadly, most of them having just been telling people to restart their PC while taking a month to set up a new user account. ;)

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I used to be of the opinion that off shoring to India wouldn't succeed as the Indians are crap, and generally fail at everything they touch.

I still think they are crap, but now know off shoring will continue to increase, as UK managers just don't care. They are more interested in the short term and getting their yearly bonus, they don’t care that the company fails behind them, they just move to somewhere else to inflict their great ideas.

get with the program...its PRICE.

everyone in IT knows the cheap shit you buy mail order or internet is just that. cheap and shit. yet still people buy it. this went on for the last 20 years.....Tiny, Time Direct, Escom, all the bust ones....fracked up the market then fracked off.

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IT Jobs Buффеring Offshore

IT Job Board Provides Some Numbers

Not to worry. Gordon is creating thousands of non-jobs in the public sector. And you can't outsource loft lagging!

Copydude, do you have the link to the original article?

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no, professional services. why do you ask?

Its just that ICT is a subject, not an industry.

It is a term creeping in everywhere. kids learned it at school, so I suppose its just a change in the term thats going to become embedded. shame, life is complicated enough without adding an unecessary letter to IT to change it to ICT.

do you do massages?

Edited by Bloo Loo

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Its just that ICT is a subject, not an industry.

It is a term creeping in everywhere. kids learned it at school, so I suppose its just a change in the term thats going to become embedded. shame, life is complicated enough without adding an unecessary letter to IT to change it to ICT.

do you do massages?

we cover mobile and fixed coms as well.

its a dept not an industry or a subject. ;) but don't blame me I just work here.

unless you are into large beardy men I doubt you would enjoy a massage from me.

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I used to be of the opinion that off shoring to India wouldn't succeed as the Indians are crap, and generally fail at everything they touch.

I still think they are crap, but now know off shoring will continue to increase, as UK managers just don't care. They are more interested in the short term and getting their yearly bonus, they don’t care that the company fails behind them, they just move to somewhere else to inflict their great ideas.

Sorry that is horseshit.

Anyone with any sense knows that to engage any overseas office you need to put the effort in. If you get crap produced for you then you are equally to blame for not managing it correctly. I know just as many incompetant Uk techies as overseas ones - it's just some of the Uk ones want £400 a day.

The days of the 45k in-house programmer are gone - the trend is definatly towards 3rd party. My lecturer told me years ago that one day all the C++ classes would be written and the programmers job would be done - in a way he was right. Unless you are a software or technology company, why pay through the nose for an expensive IT department?

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Yes, the writings been on the wall for a number of years. Anyone in IT should have actively been looking for the niches and domain knowledge that need to be kept local.

Oops, that's me gone then. Good thing I'm offshored, since being headhunted by a company 8 timezones away.

World-class skills can compete in a worldwide marketplace; skills that can't be offshored should tend towards technician. :P

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The days of the 45k in-house programmer are gone - the trend is definatly towards 3rd party. My lecturer told me years ago that one day all the C++ classes would be written and the programmers job would be done - in a way he was right. Unless you are a software or technology company, why pay through the nose for an expensive IT department?

I've made this point before that it's much more efficient to have smaller specialist software houses building niche product and selling to other industries, rather than every firm within those industries trying to roll their own.

Net result of this will be less in-house development, but the jobs that remain in the software houses will be higher value added.

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Its just that ICT is a subject, not an industry.

When i saw those letters i thought it was reference to intra company tranfers (ICTs), these are visas that are being handed out like candy at the mo to indians and are another nail in the coffin for IT workers in the UK.

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I've made this point before that it's much more efficient to have smaller specialist software houses building niche product and selling to other industries, rather than every firm within those industries trying to roll their own.

Net result of this will be less in-house development, but the jobs that remain in the software houses will be higher value added.

But lower paid.....

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Oops, that's me gone then. Good thing I'm offshored, since being headhunted by a company 8 timezones away.

World-class skills can compete in a worldwide marketplace; skills that can't be offshored should tend towards technician. :P

Working in a global market-place isn't the same as offshoring in the usual sense of the word.

The latter implies low-value added work that can be standardised and mechanised and isn't enhanced by niche experience, domain knowledge, or communication skills. The exact opposite to the kind of work you are doing.

I do think that anyone who has lost their job through outsourcing must have slept-walk into it.

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But lower paid.....

No way, a good person operating in a software house can multiply their value over 100s of customers. I think these jobs will trend towards better paid.

I'm viewing it through the prism of my own experience, but I believe I've taken my skills as an in house developer, moved to a software house, and applied any value that I add over all of our customers.

I've tripled my salary since making this move, and think that this is a model that will suit the best IT people, and crucify the average ones.

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No way, a good person operating in a software house can multiply their value over 100s of customers. I think these jobs will trend towards better paid.

I'm viewing it through the prism of my own experience, but I believe I've taken my skills as an in house developer, moved to a software house, and applied any value that I add over all of our customers.

I've tripled my salary since making this move, and think that this is a model that will suit the best IT people, and crucify the average ones.

It's simple supply and demand, you may think you are irreplaceable but it's very unlikely to be true and you'll almost certainly end up lower paid like everyone else ( and my background is almost exclusively as a software house developer so it's not like I'm some bitter in house developer ).

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Sorry that is horseshit.

Anyone with any sense knows that to engage any overseas office you need to put the effort in. If you get crap produced for you then you are equally to blame for not managing it correctly. I know just as many incompetant Uk techies as overseas ones - it's just some of the Uk ones want £400 a day.

The days of the 45k in-house programmer are gone - the trend is definatly towards 3rd party. My lecturer told me years ago that one day all the C++ classes would be written and the programmers job would be done - in a way he was right. Unless you are a software or technology company, why pay through the nose for an expensive IT department?

Er, no.

All failures in business are management failures, whether it happens in the UK or in India. However its very much harder, experience would suggest impossible, to manage that team when it is offshore. If management often fails when the team is onshore, then don't make the situation worse.

Failures in local IT are usually caused by the same thing - the desire to hire 20 cheap developers who don't know what they are doing, rather than one expensive expert. We know from experience that costs, real costs, skyrocket due to offshoring. Its been tried, it doesn't work, but that's not the point.

This is all done for sociological reasons, economics has nothing to do with it. Offshoring exists because technically able people are a threat to technically illiterate managers. In order to maintain your status, you need to keep down the people who are actually able to do the work. Lower their pay, lower their status, turn them into replaceable commodities, and keep them far away. Having a larger team of cheaper people is perfect, becuase it simultaneously reduces their influence, whilst increasing the size of your empire.

It also helps if you can introduce terms like nerd and geek into the language, in order to further diminish the standing of clever people who understand the key technology of the 21st Century. Lawyers aren't nerds, doctors aren't nerds, accountants aren't nerds. Funny that. None if this is done conciously, it isn't a giant conspiracy, but it is exactly what has happened.

Commodification of highly skilled workers in order to maintain useless unskilled management hierarchies. Modern feudalism.

BTW - I don't work in IT.

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Sorry that is horseshit.

Anyone with any sense knows that to engage any overseas office you need to put the effort in. If you get crap produced for you then you are equally to blame for not managing it correctly. I know just as many incompetant Uk techies as overseas ones - it's just some of the Uk ones want £400 a day.

The days of the 45k in-house programmer are gone - the trend is definatly towards 3rd party. My lecturer told me years ago that one day all the C++ classes would be written and the programmers job would be done - in a way he was right. Unless you are a software or technology company, why pay through the nose for an expensive IT department?

That might be true on a large scale site with lots of custom apps etc... but as a medium sized company we have started to bring most things in house to both save money and provie better services. Obviously I can't go into details but the figures are staggering.

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I used to be of the opinion that off shoring to India wouldn't succeed as the Indians are crap, and generally fail at everything they touch.

I still think they are crap, but now know off shoring will continue to increase, as UK managers just don't care. They are more interested in the short term and getting their yearly bonus, they don’t care that the company fails behind them, they just move to somewhere else to inflict their great ideas.

Sorry that is horseshit.

Anyone with any sense knows that to engage any overseas office you need to put the effort in. If you get crap produced for you then you are equally to blame for not managing it correctly. I know just as many incompetant Uk techies as overseas ones - it's just some of the Uk ones want £400 a day.

The days of the 45k in-house programmer are gone - the trend is definatly towards 3rd party. My lecturer told me years ago that one day all the C++ classes would be written and the programmers job would be done - in a way he was right. Unless you are a software or technology company, why pay through the nose for an expensive IT department?

Until a very short while ago, I used to work for one of the large tech consultancies and I can tell you that phead's more right than wrong. When there's a tossup between good and cheap, cheap gets the vote every time.

'Minisize the window by clicking on here' - that's the kind of quality you get with many of the Chindian software houses - I've seen it. A mediocre programmer with a deep knowledge of the problem domain is worth ten knowledgeable programmers with no understanding of the problem domain. India usually delivers the latter unless someone else has allowed them to make the mistakes in your problem domain (basically training them).

If you want developers experienced in your problem domain they'll charge you comparable wages to what you would pay someone here, and the net result? You're renting expertise when you could have simply built and retained expertise in your own country for the same outlay. If you are in that situation, India has successfully bought your expertise and rented it back to you. Your company, your industry and possibly now your country will actually be poorer for it eventually.

I've made this point before that it's much more efficient to have smaller specialist software houses building niche product and selling to other industries, rather than every firm within those industries trying to roll their own.

Net result of this will be less in-house development, but the jobs that remain in the software houses will be higher value added.

Most of these applications are not portable between companies let alone industries. Software re-use is nowhere near that level unfortunately.

Edited by Sir Sidney Roughdiamond

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I've made this point before that it's much more efficient to have smaller specialist software houses building niche product and selling to other industries, rather than every firm within those industries trying to roll their own.

Net result of this will be less in-house development, but the jobs that remain in the software houses will be higher value added.

To a certain extent this is true, but it is a very IT focused POV. It assumes that creating a new system is a technology problem, when often it is a business problem, and the actual implementation is secondary. If the system was implemented using people - operating procedures, filing systems, job hierarchies that sort of thing - then no one would suggest that it be given to another company to create.

If you are a baker, you don't outsource your baking to the miller, just because he is the expert in flour.

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