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eric pebble

Discussion Programme With 3 Writers On The Credit Crunch:

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Good vid.

(Broadcast on:BBC Parliament, 10:45am Tuesday 28th July 2009)

Watch from about 13 minutes on. Paul Mason makes the point that the five recent bubbles of dot.com, housing, securitized finance, commodities and oil were driven by the financial sector.

Listen to Vince Cable make a freudian slip on 14:00.

Edited by Dave Spart

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Cheap crap, good slip Vince! An example of a good prog by the Beeb. Those who are convinced they are bised have to realise that most of their programmes are made for the uneducated, unwashed masses and specialised stuff like this could not be shown on prime TV.

As Paul Mason said during the video, if banks didn't join in the bubble the shareholders would get them sacked for not raking in the money that the other banks did.

In a similar way if BBC News did not cover Peter and Jordan, Maddie mania and other tabloid tripe, viewers and hence the board would want to know why. The fact that govts and opposition parties over the years, whether Labour or Tory, have all accused the BBC of bias one way or the other shows the difficult balance they have to strike. Best progs these days seem to be on BBC3 and BBC4. Recent stuff on music through the years (jazz to Heavy Metal) and driving / car progs have been good.

They have failed completely to even mention Big Brother anymore which is a good thing IMHO. Last year, radio 5 live had late evening updates on the 'housemates', I couldn't beleive my ears! Completely ignoring it now.

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About 6:40 " . . . pushers need addicts. There's an axis of idiocy here . . . "

:lol::lol:

Paul Mason then gets to the heart of the stupidity [sardonically?] : "There's an axis of total logic here: if debt is cheap you're stupid not to take debt"

Edited by Dave Spart

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About 20 minutes in.

"I'm a BBC journalist. It's not my job to criticise politicians".

Perhaps they should have discussed that point of view as well.

Edited by billybong

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As Paul Mason said during the video, if banks didn't join in the bubble the shareholders would get them sacked for not raking in the money that the other banks did.

Yep, this is the catch 22. Shareholders want big profits, long term thinking doesn't come into it apart from when nationalisation looms.

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Paul Mason then gets to the heart of the stupidity [sardonically?] : "There's an axis of total logic here: if debt is cheap you're stupid not to take debt"

the pattern seems to be this, to my uneducated eye.

don't let the govt. balance sheet run large enough deficits and encourage the private sector and household to load up on debt on it's balance sheet.

perhaps at the heart of this twisted logic of....consumer, take on more debt, is that the msm have this preoccupation with hysteria about 'our children' paying off govt. debt and the urgent need to reduce deficits and to balance budgets and run surpluses.

Which begs the question, if the govt. isn't going to run the deficit or be allowed to by a hysterical msm, then which party does end up going into negative territory to stimulate and grow the economy ?

muggins' here. that's who. via increased levels of secured and unsecured debts. Atleast in the old days we had high inflation to erode that debt over time, but now they've even put a stop to a bit of serious wage inflation via monetary policy geared to targeting inflation to an arbitrary figure throughout the period of the 'great moderation'.

If anything today they seem to be creating a gigantic monetary stimulus bubble, for want of a better word, with the central bank interventions during this gfc. the last 12 years has been characterised by the UK and US administrations and their quasi-independent central banks f******* things up at every turn.

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Discussion programme with 3 writers on the Credit Crunch: Superb. Worth watching. 35 minutes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ls..._Credit_Crunch/

The quote of the programme for me was the woman saying the problem was the banks adopted off balance sheet accounting Enron style and that needed to be sorted out to prevent it happening again... then straight away said that now governments were adopting the same accounting practices to deal with the crisis.

Does that mean the government will go the way of Enron?

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Does Gillian Tett have a book? :rolleyes:

Edit: Well I've just watched the entire episode and it was very enjoyable indeed. Well worth the watch. Thanks for posting, Eric.

Pleasure. Gillian Tett talks about her book at the start.

I think this programme reveals quite a lot - i.e. How BAD things really are....

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The quote of the programme for me was the woman saying the problem was the banks adopted off balance sheet accounting Enron style and that needed to be sorted out to prevent it happening again... then straight away said that now governments were adopting the same accounting practices to deal with the crisis.

Does that mean the government will go the way of Enron?

Probably, yes. A certain Mr G. Brown certainly deserves this; his level of incompetence and idiocy is breathtaking. I would LOVE to know how much he REALLY knew and knows now..... I can't figure out if he's incredibly stupid or dishonest - but I think it is the worst - a combination of both.

Edited by eric pebble

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That term "off balance sheet accounting" is simply the bankers way of saying "knowing how gullible and unquestioning you are we only have to give our deception a new name for you to be dumbstruck with admiration."

Leaders, spivs and psycopaths have this technque in common, among others.

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That term "off balance sheet accounting" is simply the bankers way of saying "knowing how gullible and unquestioning you are we only have to give our deception a new name for you to be dumbstruck with admiration."

Leaders, spivs and psycopaths have this technque in common, among others.

Yup. The number of times I heard people saying "Well done them" about bankers.... When we have witnessed them perpetrate the Greatest EVER Pyramid/Ponzi Legalized Daylight Robbery Scam in all history.......

Makes me PUKE. :angry:

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About 20 minutes in.

"I'm a BBC journalist. It's not my job to criticise politicians".

Perhaps they should have discussed that point of view as well.

Bring back Paxman and let him off the leash. :angry:

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Gillian Tett talks about her book at the start.

Doesn't she just! A lot more than Mason and Cable anyway. ;)

I think this programme reveals quite a lot - i.e. How BAD things really are....

That really struck me too. From what I recall, the focus of the broadcast was about how it happened, why it happened and who was to blame.

There really wasn't much comment on the future of things - and it was subtle when it was - but, right at the end, the host/interviewer passed a comment about things not looking good and the look on their faces said it all.

I remember learning about the Great Depression when I was studying GCSE Business Studies in 1992 (when I was 14). It proved to be the best/wisest option I took in preparing me for understanding the world around me.

I remember being horrified by what I was taught and read about it. Later that evening I discussed it with my mum and asked whether she thought it could ever happen again. Sensing my genuine fear, I vividly remember her saying "No, it could never happen again", to which I replied "Why not?", and she responded "Because people wouldn't be that stupid".

Turns out they would.

Ironically, today, my mum thinks Gordon Brown was an excellent Chancellor, doesn't seem concerned that her two 30-something children are still renting (because we chose to for obvious reasons, I might add), and is positively jubilant that her house is now "worth" 10 times what she paid for it in 1980.

Still, at least she never MEWed.

But I digress...

Edited by ChesterCopperpot

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About 20 minutes in.

"I'm a BBC journalist. It's not my job to criticise politicians".

Perhaps they should have discussed that point of view as well.

This stood out as a most interesting/puzzleing thing to say.

Is it BBC policy that politicians may not be criticised by BBC journalists?

If this is the case it perhaps explains why our politicians can continually make conflicting and obviously false statements, that remain unchallenged by the interviewer in case this is seen as criticism.

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This stood out as a most interesting/puzzleing thing to say.

Is it BBC policy that politicians may not be criticised by BBC journalists?

If this is the case it perhaps explains why our politicians can continually make conflicting and obviously false statements, that remain unchallenged by the interviewer in case this is seen as criticism.

Weird isn't it?!!

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That really struck me too. From what I recall, the focus of the broadcast was about how it happened, why it happened and who was to blame.

.../

I remember learning about the Great Depression when I was studying GCSE Business Studies in 1992 (when I was 14). It proved to be the best/wisest option I took in preparing me for understanding the world around me.

I remember being horrified by what I was taught and read about it. Later that evening I discussed it with my mum and asked whether she thought it could ever happen again. Sensing my genuine fear, I vividly remember her saying "No, it could never happen again", to which I replied "Why not?", and she responded "Because people wouldn't be that stupid".

Turns out they would.

......./..

As others have said here though..... It really didn't take that much brain power to understand that fuelling all those dodgy CDOs with dodgy mortgages/LIAR LOANS was ABSOLUTELY BOUND TO lead to disaster. From around 2003/4 I told all my friends and relations we were heading for a catastrophe.... They just laughed.... :rolleyes:

Edited by eric pebble

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This stood out as a most interesting/puzzleing thing to say.

Is it BBC policy that politicians may not be criticised by BBC journalists?

If this is the case it perhaps explains why our politicians can continually make conflicting and obviously false statements, that remain unchallenged by the interviewer in case this is seen as criticism.

Yes, I thought that stood out as a curious thing to blurt out. Sounded almost like it could have been a mantra learnt at some kind of training away day for BBC News teams at a hotel and conference centre.

Seemed ridiculous when he was there in his capacity as an author.

If this is the case, frankly, what is the point of BBC journalists authoring any books when their analyses cannot include any criticism of politicians.

Perhaps, they should be forced to print in large letters on the cover 'Warning - Written by a BBC journalist - May contain no criticism of either government or politicians'.

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Excellent link Eric, cheers. Bit surprised that a few 'free marketeer' types haven't slated this. "skewed reading of Adam Smith", regulators asleep on the job, "market completion", creed of deregulation, ideologies... more sizzling mince made of sacred cows than a lunchtime shift at McDonalds!

Edited by Cogs

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Excellent link Eric, cheers. Bit surprised that a few 'free marketeer' types haven't slated this. "skewed reading of Adam Smith", regulators asleep on the job, "market completion", creed of deregulation, ideologies... more sizzling mince made of sacred cows than a lunchtime shift at McDonalds!

Thanks Cogs - pleasure -- It is just entirely logical stuff!!

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Excellent link Eric, cheers. Bit surprised that a few 'free marketeer' types haven't slated this. "skewed reading of Adam Smith", regulators asleep on the job, "market completion", creed of deregulation, ideologies... more sizzling mince made of sacred cows than a lunchtime shift at McDonalds!

I expect most free-marketeers (myself included) won't have bothered to watch it. I long since learned not to expect to watch anything of interest on the BBC and after a few seconds (or perhaps a couple of minutes, certainly no more than that) into the programme I realised nothing has changed and switched it off.

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