Holiday Camp Prison

[Tim Miller]

Simply put there is a better life for you, just try a little bit of theft, rape or murder, I kid you not. The question is, how did we get to this point and who is to blame?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...-murderers.html

[tplatt]

Simply put there is a better life for you, just try a little bit of theft, rape or murder, I kid you not. The question is, how did we get to this point and who is to blame?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...-murderers.html

I really want to comment, but I am so dumbstruck. I cannot believe what I am reading! It's a shame the Argos catalogue doesn't include fur-lined electric chairs to get rid of these ******s

[non frog]

... how did we get to this point and who is to blame?

....

we got here due to a failing education system

people who are stupid enough to read the Mail and believe it are to blame

[Guest theboltonfury]

we got here due to a failing education system

people who are stupid enough to read the Mail and believe it are to blame

This implies that we aren't fed shit by every other paper on the stand.

[waitingandsaving]

I guess the whole Alcatraz style - see what you're missing with great sea views - doesn't work if you let them have more than what they'd have on the outside...

I understand the argument that you need to treat offenders with a certain level of rewspect in the hope that they'll learn from it. However, maybe instead of the latest games available to them as soon as they come on the market, perhaps they could be allowed to choose something from the charity shop trolley that could come round once a week instead of the Argos catalogue. They could choose the latest jigsaw puzzle, or maybe a new board game to share nicely with the other inmates.

[KingBingo]

The question is, how did we get to this point and who is to blame?

13,518,167 people are to blame because on 1st of May 1997 they voted Labour.

[SHERWICK]

13,518,167 people are to blame because on 1st of May 1997 they voted Labour.

It's strange. I've met lots of Labour voters (don't worry, I'm not one) and I've met lots of people who could be termed 'bleeding heart liberals'. However, I've never met a single person that thinks that prison should be as easy as this (or sentances should be soft). Which makes me wonder how we got to this state of affairs?

[Frank Hovis]

It's strange. I've met lots of Labour voters (don't worry, I'm not one) and I've met lots of people who could be termed 'bleeding heart liberals'. However, I've never met a single person that thinks that prison should be as easy as this (or sentances should be soft). Which makes me wonder how we got to this state of affairs?

It has its own momentum. I knew somebody who went through the lengthy recruitment process for prison officers. If at any stage they had said something like "They are criminals and there to be punished for the harm they have done" the process would have stopped there and then.

The slippery slope began when prison somehow became the substitute for punishment, early 19th I think. Prior to that prison was just where you were held while awaiting your flogging.

[Garry AKA Pod]

we got here due to a failing education system

people who are stupid enough to read the Mail and believe it are to blame

There is currently a story in the Mail about how gravely ill Ronnie Biggs is. Are you suggesting I shouldn't believe it?

[Moo]

When I opened the thread I thought it was going to be about those all-inclusive Carribean holidays where the patrons are advised not to leave the compound. Ho well.

[hev]

The so called penal system is in a sorry state, partly due to human human rights, cutting back on trained staff and the volumes of paperwork occupying the staff.

Prisoners have all the rights, staff have none, The other story I read was regarding the vending machines supplying methadone!

[mattydread]

we got here due to a failing education system

people who are stupid enough to read the Mail and believe it are to blame

Nope, quite true.

I visited a friend in HMP Lindholme (category c)

No proper search - In the visiting area couples at the back were almost getting it on, hands up skirts, fingering etc.

60% of the prisoners (at the time I visited) were Muslim.

My 'friend' has freeview lcd tv in his own cell - stereo - hooch and a mobile.

Uman rites - It's a Fuc king joke.

[Guest AuntJess]

This implies that we aren't fed shit by every other paper on the stand.

Now,now. you can't expect worldly experience from people who are taught that " Guardian - good: Daily Mail - bad", and never test that hypothesis, preferring to swallow whole another person's ideals and ideas.

For people who claim to be agin scapegoating, there is a fair bit of it going on, ont' other side of the fence.

Except it isn't scapegoating when THEY do it, o'course.

Another example of this blame game I see on here, is that anyone who differs to the LNuLab. doctrine is automatically a DM reader. I guess their indoctrinators find it easier to keep things to a simple level and work with broad strokes.

[Guest AuntJess]

Nope, quite true.

I visited a friend in HMP Lindholme (category c)

No proper search - In the visiting area couples at the back were almost getting it on, hands up skirts, fingering etc.

60% of the prisoners (at the time I visited) were Muslim.

My 'friend' has freeview lcd tv in his own cell - stereo - hooch and a mobile.

Uman rites - It's a Fuc king joke.

How is it that the people who seem to benefit from 'Uman rites', are often the least Uman of all?

Answers on a postcard.

[Guest AuntJess]

It has its own momentum. I knew somebody who went through the lengthy recruitment process for prison officers. If at any stage they had said something like "They are criminals and there to be punished for the harm they have done" the process would have stopped there and then.

The slippery slope began when prison somehow became the substitute for punishment, early 19th I think. Prior to that prison was just where you were held while awaiting your flogging.

On that note, I notice that the IOM doesna have a lot of crime. Can't imagine why. If corporal punishment doen't work why is the IOM so crime free?

Also if physical punishment doesn't work, why are we always at war with countries half-way across the globe?

[Prescience]

We have covered this not long ago.

Prison ought properly to serve a number of disparate objectives:

1. It removes offenders from mainly law abiding stable society in order to prevent their further anti-social acts against society as a whole:

2. It serves as a punishment for their misdeeds:

3. It offers the opportunity to rehabilitate offenders.

Privileges ought properly to be earned: not granted as an absolute right from day one.

Human beings never ever value what is provided at no cost to themselves.

The old regime of National Service probably offers an excellent example of how to change aberrant behaviour and lack of respect for an insitituion.

When my elder bro was serving his time, one conscript was a social rebel: he refused to obey orders, refused to salute officers and treated the whole thing as a joke. Above all else he demonstrated total disrespect for the Army

So, off he went to military prison: wherein he doubled everywhere; engaged in salutory exercises such as shifting a few tons of coal from one side of the parade ground to the other and back again. Was provided a battered metal bucket and a small square of emery cloth and ordered to polish the bucket until it gleamed!

He was made to "Bull" his boots (A wholly brain numbing exercise involving heating the back of a teaspoon in a candle and rubbing it on the surface of the leather until smooth: then spit and polishing the surface with boot polish until gleaming etc.).

Once his boots were bulled, he was then ordered to stand in a large bucket full of water and step up and down until his boots were waterlogged: and thus the bulling was ruined. And he had to do this all over again.

After six months, his rebellion was broken: and he was a completely different man. He then had to go back and start his basic training all over again!

Eventually, he was posted to the same camp as my bro.

Who reported how this man was now a pussycat! He saluted officers all the time: he might even be seen saluting anything which might be an officer!

Just in case.........................

Now the core reality here was that if any conscript continued to rebel, then after serving his time in military prison, then it was straight back to basic training!

Thus it was a No Win situation for the rebel: since they could continue on this regime for ever. The time in jug simply added six months plus repeat basic training to length of service: it wasn't concurrent.

I have observed, over the past 40 years (Since Wilson's Labour government of 1964 in fact) how increasingly, the Bleeding Heart Pinko Liberal Do Gooder Apologists have summoned up a variety of excuses to try and explain aberrant behaviour: we've heard all the Lefty justifications: broken home; deprived background; social exclusion; lack of opportunity; blather, blather, blather.

Not one has enjoyed the integrity to stand up perhaps 30 years later and say; "Well! We've given them the moons, the sun and the stars: wall-to-wall benefits, bathrooms; comprehensive education etc etc yet society is degrtading at an ever-accelerating rate!

I wonder why?"

Simple!

Dynamic social groups, be they small or vast, i.e., from the Family, to the Brownie Pack, Classrooms, or a 60 million Society demonstrate precisely identical behavioural characteristics.

Someone has to be actually in charge: not nominally; actually.

And escalating sanctions which punish those who err and reward those who don't must apply.

The conclusions and syntheses are far too obvious to state.

[Tim Miller]

We have covered this not long ago.

Prison ought properly to serve a number of disparate objectives:

1. It removes offenders from mainly law abiding stable society in order to prevent their further anti-social acts against society as a whole:

2. It serves as a punishment for their misdeeds:

3. It offers the opportunity to rehabilitate offenders.

Privileges ought properly to be earned: not granted as an absolute right from day one.

Human beings never ever value what is provided at no cost to themselves.

The old regime of National Service probably offers an excellent example of how to change aberrant behaviour and lack of respect for an insitituion.

When my elder bro was serving his time, one conscript was a social rebel: he refused to obey orders, refused to salute officers and treated the whole thing as a joke. Above all else he demonstrated total disrespect for the Army

So, off he went to military prison: wherein he doubled everywhere; engaged in salutory exercises such as shifting a few tons of coal from one side of the parade ground to the other and back again. Was provided a battered metal bucket and a small square of emery cloth and ordered to polish the bucket until it gleamed!

He was made to "Bull" his boots (A wholly brain numbing exercise involving heating the back of a teaspoon in a candle and rubbing it on the surface of the leather until smooth: then spit and polishing the surface with boot polish until gleaming etc.).

Once his boots were bulled, he was then ordered to stand in a large bucket full of water and step up and down until his boots were waterlogged: and thus the bulling was ruined. And he had to do this all over again.

After six months, his rebellion was broken: and he was a completely different man. He then had to go back and start his basic training all over again!

Eventually, he was posted to the same camp as my bro.

Who reported how this man was now a pussycat! He saluted officers all the time: he might even be seen saluting anything which might be an officer!

Just in case.........................

Now the core reality here was that if any conscript continued to rebel, then after serving his time in military prison, then it was straight back to basic training!

Thus it was a No Win situation for the rebel: since they could continue on this regime for ever. The time in jug simply added six months plus repeat basic training to length of service: it wasn't concurrent.

I have observed, over the past 40 years (Since Wilson's Labour government of 1964 in fact) how increasingly, the Bleeding Heart Pinko Liberal Do Gooder Apologists have summoned up a variety of excuses to try and explain aberrant behaviour: we've heard all the Lefty justifications: broken home; deprived background; social exclusion; lack of opportunity; blather, blather, blather.

Not one has enjoyed the integrity to stand up perhaps 30 years later and say; "Well! We've given them the moons, the sun and the stars: wall-to-wall benefits, bathrooms; comprehensive education etc etc yet society is degrtading at an ever-accelerating rate!

I wonder why?"

Simple!

Dynamic social groups, be they small or vast, i.e., from the Family, to the Brownie Pack, Classrooms, or a 60 million Society demonstrate precisely identical behavioural characteristics.

Someone has to be actually in charge: not nominally; actually.

And escalating sanctions which punish those who err and reward those who don't must apply.

The conclusions and syntheses are far too obvious to state.

The most enjoyable reply I have read on HPC to date! When I started work a lot of the men there had done National Service , to a man they all said the same, it did them good, they learnt respect. I was told it picked the weak men up and gave them self confidence and the mouthy bullies were brought down with a thump, it was a leveler. There was one guy who was put in the navy, he was sea sick every day, he asked for a transfer but never got it, but even he said that despite the stupidity of that he though NS was the best thing to happen to him. They all to a man said it should be brought back. I have lived in countries where they still have this, including Turkey, they were on a pitiful salary of 7 Euros a month from memory. I employed two guys who had finished there time in the Army, they had nothing but praise for the system, they made life long friends if nothing else which gave them an unbroken loyalty, accountability and responsibility to others! They were no longer just out there for themselves.

[Rare Bear]

On that note, I notice that the IOM doesna have a lot of crime. Can't imagine why. If corporal punishment doen't work why is the IOM so crime free?

Also if physical punishment doesn't work, why are we always at war with countries half-way across the globe?

I thought that corporal punsihment had been dropped on the IOM as a resuly of EU rules a while back and that there had ben an increase in crime since.

[Guest AuntJess]

I thought that corporal punsihment had been dropped on the IOM as a resuly of EU rules a while back and that there had ben an increase in crime since.

Bluddy EU they have caused so many problems here, why don't they just **** off. When I visited IOM in the 1980s, a chap I knew there said they could leave their doors unlocked ,as no one would steal.

A friend of mine went to teach there on a 2-year contract. She was desperate to stay there and buy a house, she liked it so much, but at the end of the contract she had to leave.