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Jag/landrover....lost £675 Million (£1.2 Billion)

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I thought it was a bit odd that Clarkson was pumping the 'XF' on last weeks TopGear, telling everyone it was better than an M5 and coining the catchphrase "I've got a Jaaaaggg".

At least he's trying not to add to Jaguar's woes, unlike when he stuck the knife in Rover before and after its demise.

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However, a JLR spokesman stressed that the accounts relate to its UK operations only, and added that the previous financial year's results had been boosted by a sharp rise in its Aston Martin shares, which have now been sold on.

Nothing to worry about then as it only relates to it's UK operations. :blink:

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I thought it was a bit odd that Clarkson was pumping the 'XF' on last weeks TopGear, telling everyone it was better than an M5 and coining the catchphrase "I've got a Jaaaaggg".

At least he's trying not to add to Jaguar's woes, unlike when he stuck the knife in Rover before and after its demise.

Rover needed a knife stuck in them...they had been selling dodgy engines for a decade and did not fix the problem and denied there ever was a problem...just ask anyone who has had the misfortune to own an MGF/TF or a Freelander.

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Rover needed a knife stuck in them...they had been selling dodgy engines for a decade and did not fix the problem and denied there ever was a problem...just ask anyone who has had the misfortune to own an MGF/TF or a Freelander.

Do you mean the K-series engine and MEMS engine management unit? Both fairly sound, save the oil leaks, AFAIK.

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Jag/Landrover have many differant platforms, new models............collasped sales.

Total mismangerment by FORD DOOMED the once great maker.

Mike

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Do you mean the K-series engine and MEMS engine management unit? Both fairly sound, save the oil leaks, AFAIK.

The odd oil leak? Don't you mean the repeated head gasket failures? Sorry, but I have seen most of the Freelanders and MGs in my neighbourhood leave on a tow truck at one stage or another, including one of my own which included a head gasket failure, engine block crack, followed by an engine fire. Thankfully the third incident took out the entire car, though it nearly got me too. The K-series engine, despite what Rover repeatedly broadcast, has/had a lifetime of about 40-50k unless you are lucky. Absolute p.o.s. If the engine was as good as they said, why did they need to change the head gasket design about 5 times in 10 years?

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Tata bought JLR from Ford for $2.3bn (£1.4bn) last year, just as sales of large and luxury vehicles began to plummet.

maybe tata should compare notes with the guys who bought foxtons in '07. :lol:

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Rover K series was terrible for head gaskets.

Once the gasket went it usually deformed the head a little and you couldn't skim them to clean this up.

So most went straight back on with a new gasket, only for it to blow again in a few thousand miles.

Some quite good ideas in it, just not engineered all that well.

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I thought it was a bit odd that Clarkson was pumping the 'XF' on last weeks TopGear, telling everyone it was better than an M5 and coining the catchphrase "I've got a Jaaaaggg".

At least he's trying not to add to Jaguar's woes, unlike when he stuck the knife in Rover before and after its demise.

the entire motoring press was the same when jaguar launched the brand new car. I personally thought it was ugly as f*** from the front, perfect for the american market infact,but the fuss was nonsensical. but then even thinking that meant you could be held personally responsible for the decline of one of the nations great marques and thousands of brummy-accented redundancies. :blink:

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Rover K series was terrible for head gaskets.

Once the gasket went it usually deformed the head a little and you couldn't skim them to clean this up.

So most went straight back on with a new gasket, only for it to blow again in a few thousand miles.

Some quite good ideas in it, just not engineered all that well.

Was a bit of a ding dong, though clever. I thought the smaller engines were OK though with the problems only in the larger engines cos block stiffness was reduced?

Cost taxpayer £250M to develop and they could have bought one from Honda at the time!

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Rover K series was terrible for head gaskets.

Once the gasket went it usually deformed the head a little and you couldn't skim them to clean this up.

So most went straight back on with a new gasket, only for it to blow again in a few thousand miles.

Some quite good ideas in it, just not engineered all that well.

The K-Series was a work of genius, but you have to know about engines to understand why.

The head gasket problem was less of an engineering problem that it was a beancounter problem. If replaced wwith the more expensive multiplate type as used on the discovery there were no problems.

And you COULD skim the head if it warped a bit, but normally only once.... and only if you went to right garage.

As an ex MGF/MGTF owner this is my specialist subject!

Why it's so clever: The engine produced HUGE amounts of power compared to it's weight, size and cost. The 1.8VVC could be teased into giving out upto 200bhp. The engine block started life as a 1.2/1.4 litre honda engine however, so you can guess how much it weighed.... bog all. Rover sublicenced the engine from honda then asked for permission to drill it out to 1.6... honda said they could but honda would keep the licence for the drilled out design. Rover agreed and it became a 1.6. Then rover asked for consent to drill it out to 1.8 and honda just laughed and said it rover could manage it they could have the rights. Rover drilled it out and fitted steel liners to the cylinders. Thus the 1.8 k series was born. The best part is the engine was still VERY efficient, especially the VVC. Power to weight/size, you'de be hard pushed to get beter today without fitting a fuel-guzzling turbo.

Edited by TaxAbuserOfTheWeek

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In Africa the old 70's/80's Landrovers are still out and about, overworked & treated like s**t, but they are still there driving around.

Then Landrover decided to focus on the Chelsea tractor and lost a huge market to Toyota with their extremely good landcruiser.

Bad move, to lose the market that made you. I bet back in the day, there were some old timers aghast at the route they were taking, and knew the ultimate consequences.

The Brit Army LR Wolf was quite good though. Problem is, you can't fix them in the 3rd world with bush mechanics. You can with the Toyota.

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The K-Series was a work of genius, but you have to know about engines to understand why.

The head gasket problem was less of an engineering problem that it was a beancounter problem. If replaced wwith the more expensive multiplate type as used on the discovery there were no problems.

And you COULD skim the head if it warped a bit, but normally only once.... and only if you went to right garage.

As an ex MGF/MGTF owner this is my specialist subject!

Why it's so clever: The engine produced HUGE amounts of power compared to it's weight, size and cost. The 1.8VVC could be teased into giving out upto 200bhp. The engine block started life as a 1.2/1.4 litre honda engine however, so you can guess how much it weighed.... bog all. Rover sublicenced the engine from honda then asked for permission to drill it out to 1.6... honda said they could but honda would keep the licence for the drilled out design. Rover agreed and it became a 1.6. Then rover asked for consent to drill it out to 1.8 and honda just laughed and said it rover could manage it they could have the rights. Rover drilled it out and fitted steel liners to the cylinders. Thus the 1.8 k series was born. The best part is the engine was still VERY efficient, especially the VVC. Power to weight/size, you'de be hard pushed to get beter today without fitting a fuel-guzzling turbo.

TOP ANORAKING!!! :lol:

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the entire motoring press was the same when jaguar launched the brand new car. I personally thought it was ugly as f*** from the front, perfect for the american market infact,but the fuss was nonsensical. but then even thinking that meant you could be held personally responsible for the decline of one of the nations great marques and thousands of brummy-accented redundancies. :blink:

Yes, but the majority of BMW's and Mercs are absolutely hideous. I think that in the executive sector a certain sort of malformed brutishness is what the market wants.

Edited by CokeSnortingTory

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The K-Series was a work of genius, but you have to know about engines to understand why.

The head gasket problem was less of an engineering problem that it was a beancounter problem. If replaced wwith the more expensive multiplate type as used on the discovery there were no problems.

And you COULD skim the head if it warped a bit, but normally only once.... and only if you went to right garage.

As an ex MGF/MGTF owner this is my specialist subject!

Why it's so clever: The engine produced HUGE amounts of power compared to it's weight, size and cost. The 1.8VVC could be teased into giving out upto 200bhp. The engine block started life as a 1.2/1.4 litre honda engine however, so you can guess how much it weighed.... bog all. Rover sublicenced the engine from honda then asked for permission to drill it out to 1.6... honda said they could but honda would keep the licence for the drilled out design. Rover agreed and it became a 1.6. Then rover asked for consent to drill it out to 1.8 and honda just laughed and said it rover could manage it they could have the rights. Rover drilled it out and fitted steel liners to the cylinders. Thus the 1.8 k series was born. The best part is the engine was still VERY efficient, especially the VVC. Power to weight/size, you'de be hard pushed to get beter today without fitting a fuel-guzzling turbo.

F*cking Hell, I made it through all my life so far without feeling sufficient urge to even work out what a head gasket does, never mind all that stuff. Trouble is, I can't watch Top Gear now because doing so when you know nothing about engines is a total fraud, like pi$$ing yourself laughing at a comedien whose jokes you simply don't get. I feel like part of life has passed me by.

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I used to design engines for a living.

If you are buying any automotive product, you need to know that they go through three phases:

1. Early production - lot's of bugs that need to be fixed on warranty.

2. Mature product - most warranty bugs removed via engineering fixes.

3. Cost reduction - parts that work perfectly replaced with cheaper alternatives - lot's of new bugs that need fixing.

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The K-Series was a work of genius, but you have to know about engines to understand why.

The head gasket problem was less of an engineering problem that it was a beancounter problem. If replaced wwith the more expensive multiplate type as used on the discovery there were no problems.

And you COULD skim the head if it warped a bit, but normally only once.... and only if you went to right garage.

As an ex MGF/MGTF owner this is my specialist subject!

Why it's so clever: The engine produced HUGE amounts of power compared to it's weight, size and cost. The 1.8VVC could be teased into giving out upto 200bhp. The engine block started life as a 1.2/1.4 litre honda engine however, so you can guess how much it weighed.... bog all. Rover sublicenced the engine from honda then asked for permission to drill it out to 1.6... honda said they could but honda would keep the licence for the drilled out design. Rover agreed and it became a 1.6. Then rover asked for consent to drill it out to 1.8 and honda just laughed and said it rover could manage it they could have the rights. Rover drilled it out and fitted steel liners to the cylinders. Thus the 1.8 k series was born. The best part is the engine was still VERY efficient, especially the VVC. Power to weight/size, you'de be hard pushed to get beter today without fitting a fuel-guzzling turbo.

I rest my case. The gasket was rubbish and few could repair the engine properly after trouble occurred. A mass production engine shouldn't have all these problems, no matter how "clever" it is, and Rover should have acknowledged them instead of continually sending out engines that were going to go bang. Hence, Rover deserved to go bust.

I don't quite see how the bean counters could have thought it was a good idea to skimp on the gasket, given the obvious problems - surely the returns within warrantee would have been enough to swing the cost benefits...or, as I suspect, was 40k more or less out of warrantee for most units and hence the owners' problem. :(

The MGF, in my opinion, was an aesthetically beautiful car (and no I am not a hairdresser)...but completely ruined by engine problems. An absolute tragedy.

Edited by D'oh

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The odd oil leak? Don't you mean the repeated head gasket failures? Sorry, but I have seen most of the Freelanders and MGs in my neighbourhood leave on a tow truck at one stage or another, including one of my own which included a head gasket failure, engine block crack, followed by an engine fire. Thankfully the third incident took out the entire car, though it nearly got me too. The K-series engine, despite what Rover repeatedly broadcast, has/had a lifetime of about 40-50k unless you are lucky. Absolute p.o.s. If the engine was as good as they said, why did they need to change the head gasket design about 5 times in 10 years?

I can confirm this,well known in the trade.Mrs P's cousin bought an 8,000 mile MGTF.It had the head gasket done at 12k, needed another a year later at 21k.A good engine is one that works well and lasts a long time without going wrong.The vast majority of owners want to get from A to B economically without large or regular repair bills.On that basis the old VW Beetle probably came out near the top,although you would struggle to do 70 without either a tailwind or a gradient.

Edited by profitofdoom

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My old Rover 414 (K-series) just got to 90k without any problems. According to the service manual the head bolts were tightened during the first couple of services and this helps to reduce the likelyhood of blown head gaskets.

I find it quite amazing that there are still so many on the road.

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Yes, but the majority of BMW's and Mercs are absolutely hideous. I think that in the executive sector a certain sort of malformed brutishness is what the market wants.

Probably because it matches the personality of the owners... :ph34r:

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In Africa the old 70's/80's Landrovers are still out and about, overworked & treated like s**t, but they are still there driving around.

Then Landrover decided to focus on the Chelsea tractor and lost a huge market to Toyota with their extremely good landcruiser.

Bad move, to lose the market that made you. I bet back in the day, there were some old timers aghast at the route they were taking, and knew the ultimate consequences.

The Brit Army LR Wolf was quite good though. Problem is, you can't fix them in the 3rd world with bush mechanics. You can with the Toyota.

+1

I swell with pride when a see a defender in the desert over here what a car.

You would be nuts to take a new landrover just too pretty.

Would love to see a Landrover pickup truck like the hilux there is such a huge market for them and landrover still has a good name here in africa.

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My old Rover 414 (K-series) just got to 90k without any problems. According to the service manual the head bolts were tightened during the first couple of services and this helps to reduce the likelyhood of blown head gaskets.

I find it quite amazing that there are still so many on the road.

My old 214 managed something like that before I got rid of it. I had no idea I was dicing with gasket doom the whole time! Sad not to have it anymore in some ways, not sad to have got rid of that heavy clutch. Hopped out of it into a Ford for a test drive and left half the bloody tires on the road... the sales droid was polite but unamused. :o

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