Man Stabs Chav - Now Faces Attempted Murder

[I_Claudius]

And if I offered you odds of 12/1 that was what happen would you bet £100 on it? 100/1?

The police don't need to arrest someone to take a statement, its the arresting bit charged with murder bit that is so wrong here.

not convinced basing the law enforcement policy on bookies odd is very sensible either tbh.

IIRC police tend to charge someone with as serious a crime as is reasonable in the first instance as it's easier to downgrade an initial charge than upgrade even after all the facts have been gathered.

[KingBingo]

So what, you turn up to the scene of fight, there are combatants on both sides, blood everywhere, ambulances...some guy with a chest wound, some other bloke covered in blood with the weapon in his hands and the coppers do what, call a time out and airlift a mediation counsellor to sit everyone down and get them to agree in a positive way as to who did what?

Or you could ask yourself why half of the combatants are in their pyjamas outside their own home.

I can understand if you would feel unable to make such a logical connection. Most right thinking people would have no trouble. Like I say, left wingers have a mental defect, they don't see the obvious sometimes.

[weebag]

And if I offered you odds of 12/1 that was what happen would you bet £100 on it? 100/1?

The police don't need to arrest someone to take a statement, its the arresting bit charged with murder bit that is so wrong here.

One for King Bingo.

Oh, and COGS, I wouldnt bother - reasonable debate is sometimes just impossible. Just try debating with Injin!

[Cogs]

Or you could ask yourself why half of the combatants are in their pyjamas outside their own home.

I can understand if you would feel unable to make such a logical connection. Most right thinking people would have no trouble. Like I say, left wingers have a mental defect, they don't see the obvious sometimes.

There isn't a logical connection there.

[ccc]

And if I offered you odds of 12/1 that was what happen would you bet £100 on it? 100/1?

The police don't need to arrest someone to take a statement, its the arresting bit charged with murder bit that is so wrong here.

Jesus this is painful.

You never seen that random horse that comes in at 100-1 ? IT DOES HAPPEN !!

That is the simple point a few of us are trying to make.

This is not about what probably happened, this is about what could have happened.

At present - all options are open. Unless you were there of course ? No - I didn't think so.

Also - he has not been charged with anything. So you can't even get the facts straight from the SUN story...

I hope you are never on a Jury..

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

I don't know, who did instigate the whole sorry incident? Who was the first to use violence? I think the police should investigate and establish on the basis of the facts what took place. Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned and authoritarian that way, perhaps as you suggest we should just trust our emotions instead.

There are plenty of possibilities that diverge from what it says in that story that fit the outcome. I don't think they are very likely but they have to be ruled out or else every drug dealer in the country owed money will call the police on their victims for vandalising their BMW before going out with their baseball bat and getting stuck in for the ten minutes before the cops finally roll up and you'll be parading about supporting them.

I never suggested we should trust our emotions, but expecting someone to stay 100% rational when faced with seeing a close relative being kicked around is not reasonable in itself.

[KingBingo]

That is the simple point a few of us are trying to make.

A few of you have missed the point. He did not need to be arrested to give a statement. You can find out everything you need without leaping to guilty until proven innocent.

[ccc]

Or you could ask yourself why half of the combatants are in their pyjamas outside their own home.

I can understand if you would feel unable to make such a logical connection. Most right thinking people would have no trouble. Like I say, left wingers have a mental defect, they don't see the obvious sometimes.

Or you could ask yourself why someone who had been "attacked by several of them" and had "all five yobs on him, kicking him in the head and stomach" was taken to Hospital with a...............wait for it............................Broken nose.

You didn't notice that little inconsistency did you....and let's all be honest - if there were any more injuries the SUN would list them in every detail.

Actually I find this debate rather refreshing. I am arguing on the side I usually argue against. Very interesting.

[worzel]

A few of you have missed the point. He did not need to be arrested to give a statement. You can find out everything you need without leaping to guilty until proven innocent.

He had stuck a blade in to someones chest five times. Probably the best course of action to question under caution just in case. If the facts are as they are stated in the article, and he was acting in self defence, then he should be released without charge as soon as this is established.

[ccc]

A few of you have missed the point. He did not need to be arrested to give a statement. You can find out everything you need without leaping to guilty until proven innocent.

I see what you are saying. However it is probably standard procedure in an incident like this for an arrest to take place. I hate the namby pamby way this country has become.

However - If I was found by the Police after stabbing someone 5 times in the chest ? I don't care what the situation was - I would expect to be arrested. I would also hope the Justice system would prevail in my favour.

[KingBingo]

Also - he has not been charged with anything. So you can't even get the facts straight from the SUN story...

True enough, I made an error on that small, point. All two words out of place. No doubt this will be held up as evidence if I get one fact wrong it follows I must be wrong on everything.

I can only hope you lot are the victim of a mindless crime one day, and then your see how much fun it is being arrested for being a victim. I suspect your all change your tune pretty sharpish.

[ccc]

He had stuck a blade in to someones chest five times. Probably the best course of action to question under caution just in case. If the facts are as they are stated in the article, and he was acting in self defence, then he should be released without charge as soon as this is established.

Please remove yourself from this thread immediately. Far too much common sense.

Good riddance.

[KingBingo]

I see what you are saying. However it is probably standard procedure in an incident like this for an arrest to take place. I hate the namby pamby way this country has become.

However - If I was found by the Police after stabbing someone 5 times in the chest ? I don't care what the situation was - I would expect to be arrested. I would also hope the Justice system would prevail in my favour.

Outside your own house in the middle of the night while your son lay beaten on the floor, surrounded by drunken thugs????

You clearly have a very different outlook on life to me.

[worzel]

I can only hope you lot are the victim of a mindless crime one day, and then your see how much fun it is being arrested for being a victim. I suspect your all change your tune pretty sharpish.

Whats all this wishing unpleasant crimes on people. There's no-one disagreeing that its unpleasant to be arrested for something you haven't done, but can you seriously expect the police to not arrest anyone unless they are 100% sure that they have committed a crime.

[Cogs]

I can only hope you lot are the victim of a mindless crime one day, and then your see how much fun it is being arrested for being a victim. I suspect your all change your tune pretty sharpish.

Oh the irony.

[I_Claudius]

You can find out everything you need without leaping to guilty until proven innocent.

[Cogs]

I never suggested we should trust our emotions, but expecting someone to stay 100% rational when faced with seeing a close relative being kicked around is not reasonable in itself.

Nah, I meant the police and the legal system. Cases decided on their merits and the facts rather than how we feel (or how we think we feel maybe) about the people involved. Its pretty unfeeling I grant you but, sadly, I think its the cost of doing business. We don't live in a perfect world unfortunately, we have to make the best of a bad lot.

It is hard to imagine where KingBingo's fanciful ideas about subjectivity and the police discretion get us but I dare say it would be open season for the priests to start kiddie fiddling again and for judges to wave through rampant corruption at the Met. Basically 'respectable' people doing what the hell they like.

[weebag]

Outside your own house in the middle of the night while your son lay beaten on the floor, surrounded by drunken thugs????

You clearly have a very different outlook on life to me.

So you trust everything that is said in the newspapers? In the Sun?

Personally, id prefer that the police investigated rather than rely on the papers for a thorough investigation.

Do you not see KB that EVERYONE has said that if the facts are as per the report, then the dad should be released and the 'chavs' prosecuted. We AGREE on the outcome, just not on your methods of arriving at the outcome.

[ccc]

True enough, I made an error on that small, point. All two words out of place. No doubt this will be held up as evidence if I get one fact wrong it follows I must be wrong on everything.

I can only hope you lot are the victim of a mindless crime one day, and then your see how much fun it is being arrested for being a victim. I suspect your all change your tune pretty sharpish.

I have been a victim of a mindless violent crime. I have also been arrested by the Police and held for a day when I did nothing wrong.

I don't usually stick up for the Police. I don't usually stick up for violent chavs. I take each situation as it comes. No point being blinkered one way or another.

Next.

[KingBingo]

Whats all this wishing unpleasant crimes on people. There's no-one disagreeing that its unpleasant to be arrested for something you haven't done, but can you seriously expect the police to not arrest anyone unless they are 100% sure that they have committed a crime.

What's sickening is their attitude.

Easy to be blasaie about a violent attack on your home and family in the middle of the night when its not you or your family as the victim.

Very easy then to sound off about how right it was to drag the poor man down to the station under arrest for murder while his wife is in hysterics and a son in hospital.

For the rest of use it does not sit well at all.

I have spoken up for the decent man and been rounded on by liberals. Tells you a lot about this country that does.

[ccc]

Outside your own house in the middle of the night while your son lay beaten on the floor, surrounded by drunken thugs????

You clearly have a very different outlook on life to me.

Ah so you were present at the scene !! Because if you were not - you could not be certain what actually happened. Thanks for clarifying this. You should probably contact the Police. They could use you as a remote witness no doubt.

[KingBingo]

Ah so you were present at the scene !! Because if you were not - you could not be certain what actually happened. Thanks for clarifying this. You should probably contact the Police. They could use you as a remote witness no doubt.

Your being pedantic for your own amusement.

[ccc]

I have spoken up for the decent man and been rounded on by liberals. Tells you a lot about this country that does.

In the last day on this site I have been called both liberal and tactful.

Not entirely accurate.

[KingBingo]

So you trust everything that is said in the newspapers? In the Sun?

Personally, id prefer that the police investigated rather than rely on the papers for a thorough investigation.

Do you not see KB that EVERYONE has said that if the facts are as per the report, then the dad should be released and the 'chavs' prosecuted. We AGREE on the outcome, just not on your methods of arriving at the outcome.

Good, so you accept I'm right, you just fancied playing a game of 'what if'.

Of course if these innocent boys were strolling back from the pub and some madman came screaming out his house and stabbed one of them out of the blue its different. But we all know that didn't happen.

We can only discuss everything as we know and keep an open mind. But as reported this is a travesty.

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

Nah, I meant the police and the legal system. Cases decided on their merits and the facts rather than how we feel (or how we think we feel maybe) about the people involved.

Understood.

Of course, we have to look at the facts (there was an altercation; a man was set upon by a gang; father came out and stabbed one of the gang 5 times. Result: most seriously injured was one of the gang). In court, it`s going to be cut-and-dried on the facts as they appear. Still, I think we should take into account the state of mind of those involved (for example, members of the gang were drunk, which is counted as an aggravating factor); the man who committed the stabbing may have been in fear for the life of his son and / or himself.

Yes, this is not so straightforward and I do believe that the police were right to bring him in (as standard procedure) as well as the gang members.

What I do not believe is that this man should be made an example of for over-reacting while in a state of fear, panic and shock. The last time I checked we didn`t have pointy ears, green blood, tell people to `live long and prosper` and do the fancy divided-hand-with-your-fingers sign!

I don`t believe for one minute that a custodial should be given to the guy and that the laws on self-defence and `reasonable force` are out of date imho, especially given the lack of effective crime prevention in this country.