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LuckyOne

Napolean And Hitler Couldn't Bring Us To Our Knees ....

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It is amazing that this nation has been able to withstand the onslaught of various despots, emperors, kaisers, fascists etc for a thousand years yet we have allowed twelve years of Labour to crush us and put us into a situation from which we will probably not fully recover for a generation or two.

It amazes me that we have been able to consistently overcome a lot of formidable foes in the past yet we seem to have succumbed to an insidious enemy within.

It is a deplorable situation really.

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Guest Barebear

I and many other people I know are not on their knees.

We have food to eat, shelter and the majority have work. We even have TV's computers,game consules,mobile phones,cars,bikes,holidays (even abroad).

Slightly tough it may be , end of the world it aint.

Don't talk tosh man !!

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I and many other people I know are not on their knees.

We have food to eat, shelter and the majority have work. We even have TV's computers,game consules,mobile phones,cars,bikes,holidays (even abroad).

Slightly tough it may be , end of the world it aint.

Don't talk tosh man !!

The intermenet has a lot to answer for.

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Guest Barebear
The intermenet has a lot to answer for.

On the other side of the coin its making this recession a lot easier. Or thats how it appears to me comparing it with the 90's.

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Well actually, an international economic boom was what done us all in. It started in America with the sub-prime crisis. We are so bound up with international economics, that no matter how much we want to find a local (and thus controllable) cause, and a scapegoat to stick on a pike, the situation was global.

Without giving any credit to Labour for its management, the situation was about the real ruler of the world which is the international money network. The faces and names of the players on the local political level totally critical to ensure that people are looking in the chosen direction for cause and effect - what amazes me is that they are so egotistical that they even want government or think that it makes any difference. They are truly irrelevant to cause and effect. Pawns. Their role is to make sure the population is managed in a way that serves global capital.

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Well actually, an international economic boom was what done us all in. It started in America with the sub-prime crisis. We are so bound up with international economics, that no matter how much we want to find a local (and thus controllable) cause, and a scapegoat to stick on a pike, the situation was global.

Without giving any credit to Labour for its management, the situation was about the real ruler of the world which is the international money network. The faces and names of the players on the local political level totally critical to ensure that people are looking in the chosen direction for cause and effect - what amazes me is that they are so egotistical that they even want government or think that it makes any difference. They are truly irrelevant to cause and effect. Pawns. Their role is to make sure the population is managed in a way that serves global capital.

That view is exactly the one Mr Brown would like us to believe. Have we forgotten that a decade before sub-prime in the US, we had Brown's so-called light touch-regulation of the City and financial industries?. Again and again he extolled the virtues of risk-taking to City audiences - see the link below for a few quotes by him.

Brown_on_risk_talking_to_bankers.pdf

This adoption of 'risk' green-lighted excessive lending; thus excessive borrowing; thus HPI; thus massive personal debt. Add in the creation of the ineffective FSA; the refusal to raise interest rates when it was needed and the massive public sector spending, and you have a huge bonfire built, and ripe to blaze out of control.

Brown laid the fire

USA sub-prime was the lit match.

Brown and Blair's policies and 'vision' in the 1990's ensured the predictable blaze would do as much damage as possible.

They were fully aware that economic disaster was inevitable. Whether ignorance or self-interest motivtated them i leave to others to decide. That they knew is now quite clear.

An unsustainable boom running in the Uk was accepted by our leaders in the 1990's, with Brown as Chancellor. This following article in The Independent has ex-Governor of the BOE Eddie George brazenly admitting it, and saying that he left his successors to face the consequences. The article is IMHO, essential reading for all HPCers.

Ex-Governor George says Bank deliberately fuelled consumer boom

By Jane Padgham

Wednesday, 21 March 2007

Share

The Bank of England deliberately stoked the consumer boom that has led to record house prices and personal debt in order to avert a recession, the former Bank Governor Eddie George admitted yesterday.

Lord George said he and his colleagues on the Monetary Policy Committee "did not have much of a choice" as they battled to prevent the UK being dragged into a worldwide economic slump by slashing interest rates. And he said his legacy to the current MPC was to "sort out" the problems he had caused.

Lord George, who headed the Bank for a decade from 1993, revealed to MPs on the Treasury Select Committee that he knew the approach was not sustainable. "In the environment of global economic weakness at the beginning of this decade... external demand was declining and related to that, business investment was declining," he said. "We only had two alternative ways of sustaining demand and keeping the economy moving forward - one was public spending and the other was consumption.

"We knew that we were having to stimulate consumer spending. We knew we had pushed it up to levels which couldn't possibly be sustained into the medium and long term. But for the time being, if we had not done that, the UK economy would have gone into recession just as the United States did."

He said he was "very conscious" that stimulating consumer demand could give rise to problems in the future. "My legacy to the MPC, if you like, has been 'sort that out'," he said. Under Lord George's governorship, rates were slashed from 6 per cent in 2001 to 3.5 per cent in 2003, pushing house price inflation above 25 per cent and high street spending growth to its highest since the late-Eighties boom.

In a wide-ranging discussion on the first 10 years of the MPC, Lord George also rejected suggestions that the MPC should target specific concerns such as soaring house prices, arguing that it was vital to take the broader picture of the economy.

Meanwhile, Kate Barker, a current MPC member, said in a speech last night that interest rate changes might become more frequent as the committee tackles volatile energy prices, rising inflation expectations and increasing pricing power. "This is a different kind of uncertainty from worries about demand which have been more usual during my time on the MPC, and I suggest that this may prompt a change in observed behaviour towards more frequent interest rate changes," she told the CBI North East dinner.

This admission ranks with the most cynical statements I've ever seen in the Press.

Brown_on_risk_talking_to_bankers.pdf

Edited by juvenal

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It is amazing that this nation has been able to withstand the onslaught of various despots, emperors, kaisers, fascists etc for a thousand years yet we have allowed twelve years of Labour to crush us and put us into a situation from which we will probably not fully recover for a generation or two.

It amazes me that we have been able to consistently overcome a lot of formidable foes in the past yet we seem to have succumbed to an insidious enemy within.

It is a deplorable situation really.

Margaret Thatcher - "We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty."

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

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Yeah but it wasn't really Labour was it.

It was New Labour, which was really just Tories with bells on. Both sides get it wrong.

Old Labour wouldn't have let banking rule the Earth. They would've screwed up in all sorts of different ways instead.

Discuss.... !

Edited by Khayl

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Yeah but it wasn't really Labour was it.

It was New Labour, which was really just Tories with bells on. Both sides get it wrong.

Old Labour wouldn't have let banking rule the Earth. They would've screwed up in all sorts of different ways instead.

Discuss.... !

No, sorry but the guilty party was Labour, there's a clue in the name, just igniore the word "new" and you get Labour. It was them that fooked the country.

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Guest happy?
Well actually, an international economic boom was what done us all in. It started in America with the sub-prime crisis. We are so bound up with international economics, that no matter how much we want to find a local (and thus controllable) cause, and a scapegoat to stick on a pike, the situation was global.

Without giving any credit to Labour for its management, the situation was about the real ruler of the world which is the international money network. The faces and names of the players on the local political level totally critical to ensure that people are looking in the chosen direction for cause and effect - what amazes me is that they are so egotistical that they even want government or think that it makes any difference. They are truly irrelevant to cause and effect. Pawns. Their role is to make sure the population is managed in a way that serves global capital.

+1

Labour spent nearly twenty years in opposition - only getting back into power by stealing Tory party policies.

Those who think Brown/Labour are to blame are either delusional or have a political axe to grind.

Successive Conservative shadow Chancellors have been remarkably silent on light-touch regulation precisely because they concurred with it. Their claque on this site now wish to cover-up their own complicity by pinning it all on Brown.

The only consistent, coherent criticism of New Labour came from Vince Cable - even as late as Autumn last year the Tories were cheek-by-jowl with Labour on the causes of the crisis and its solutions: their apparent Pauline conversion is simply political opportunism - this alone should make any thinking person deeply suspicious of George Osborne's credentials.

Some of us have longer memories than the last political conference.

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No, sorry but the guilty party was Labour, there's a clue in the name, just igniore the word "new" and you get Labour. It was them that fooked the country.

I didn't hear the Tories shouting from the rooftops about crazy lending, excessive risk taking and the plight of FTBers.

Don't misunderstand me. I hate the current Labour Lot. But if you think that none of this would've happened if only the Tories were in. You're fooling yourself.

Both New Labour, and the Conservatives were in love with City and property, oh and inflationary monetary policy too.

This was building for decades.

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I didn't hear the Tories shouting from the rooftops about crazy lending, excessive risk taking and the plight of FTBers.

Don't misunderstand me. I hate the current Labour Lot. But if you think that none of this would've happened if only the Tories were in. You're fooling yourself.

Both New Labour, and the Conservatives were in love with City and property, oh and inflationary monetary policy too.

This was building for decades.

I do agree with you that the tories would have done the same or worse, I just object to the fact that now things have gone so badly wrong, labour doesn't want to take any responsibility. The fact is Labour are in charge and the buck stops there, they will be punished at the next election and spend another generation or two in opposition.

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I do agree with you that the tories would have done the same or worse, I just object to the fact that now things have gone so badly wrong, labour doesn't want to take any responsibility. The fact is Labour are in charge and the buck stops there, they will be punished at the next election and spend another generation or two in opposition.

Agree 100%

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I do agree with you that the tories would have done the same or worse, I just object to the fact that now things have gone so badly wrong, labour doesn't want to take any responsibility. The fact is Labour are in charge and the buck stops there, they will be punished at the next election and spend another generation or two in opposition.

Yeah I agree totally with that. And I'm someone that believed in the Labour movement!

Brown et al. trying to worm out of it is shameful and sickening.

It does make me laugh though, if people claim that socialism was to blame. In the same way its ridiculous to say capitalism is to blame.

We've had neither, just the worst bits of both.... It was all down to flawed economic theory, in particular succesive governments deciding it was easier to fiddle the inflation and GDP figures instead of actually trying to correct why the numbers were so bad. Their expansion of the money supply, so that they could present themselves as Santa Clause at every election, and their own property based greed blinding them completely.

Both Socialism and Free Market Capitalism could work in isolation, but both have big flaws. Fundamentally however both require honest monetary policy, and we haven't got that.

Edited by Khayl

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Some of us have longer memories than the last political conference.

Thats funny because I remember the last Tory government not being that big on benefits culture. I remember them spending a reasonable amount on NHS such that it worked but wasnt wasting money hand over fist. I remember schools actually educated kids, and if a girl got pregnant at school she was the only one in the year, if not the whole school.

I remember taxes seeming reasonable, I remember roads not being grid locked all the time. I remember immigration being there, but not a problem like it is now. I dont remember them creating massive non-jobs in the public sector.

I also remember them raising interest rates to be very high to try and control the economy. So please dont tell me it would have been the same under the Tories as it most definitely would not have been. If may salve you concience to think like that, but you are fooling only yourself.

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Thats funny because I remember the last Tory government not being that big on benefits culture. I remember them spending a reasonable amount on NHS such that it worked but wasnt wasting money hand over fist. I remember schools actually educated kids, and if a girl got pregnant at school she was the only one in the year, if not the whole school.

I remember taxes seeming reasonable, I remember roads not being grid locked all the time. I remember immigration being there, but not a problem like it is now. I dont remember them creating massive non-jobs in the public sector.

I also remember them raising interest rates to be very high to try and control the economy. So please dont tell me it would have been the same under the Tories as it most definitely would not have been. If may salve you concience to think like that, but you are fooling only yourself.

Your memories are inaccurate. Care in the community, closing lots of hospitals, lots of psychiatric patients murdering people through lack of supervision, I believe the modern dole culture came from the tories 80's government when there were no jobs for the working class (all was well for the toffs though), 'inclusive' comprehensive education brought in mixing the tards with the bright ones, but I agree about pregnancies.

Income tax was higher, but other taxes and stealth lower. Plenty of non-jobs for the toffs - the Sainsbury report and the failed NHS internal market as but one example.

I think both parties are shit and it's all going to go tits up.

TFH

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The only consistent, coherent criticism of New Labour came from Vince Cable - even as late as Autumn last year the Tories were cheek-by-jowl with Labour on the causes of the crisis and its solutions: their apparent Pauline conversion is simply political opportunism - this alone should make any thinking person deeply suspicious of George Osborne's credentials.

Some of us have longer memories than the last political conference.

But your memory doesn't seem to span the whole of the New Labour period otherwise you would remember early on how successive Tory shadow chancellors warned that Brown was leading us towards national bankruptcy once he broke with Ken Clarke's plans. In the end they had to give up this strategy because the ruling class as a whole wasn't listening and the media used it to paint the Tories as out-of-touch reactionaries.

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Guest spp
I and many other people I know are not on their knees.

We have food to eat, shelter and the majority have work. We even have TV's computers,game consules,mobile phones,cars,bikes,holidays (even abroad).

Slightly tough it may be , end of the world it aint.

Don't talk tosh man !!

There's still time!

We are part of a fraudulent monetary system...

The beneficiaries of the fraud are mostly those in the financial sector of the economy, very large corporations, and the politicians they finance. The victims are everybody else, but especially ordinary people who are dependent upon the integrity of our monetary system for their savings, their pensions, and their jobs. Already, fraudulent monetary systems modeled after our own have wiped out the savings, pensions, and jobs of hundreds of millions all over the world, including in Russia, the Philippines, Mexico, Brazil, South Korea, Malaysia, and many other countries.

This depression is only just getting started IMO.

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Margaret Thatcher - "We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty."

Was she referring to herself?

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Both major parties were effectively taken over by neo-liberal free-market ideologues, to the extent that the Conservatives were no longer really conservative, and Labour no longer represented labour. We've really had about 30 years of a toxic mix of Gramsci-esque cultural relativism and eat-the-seadcorn cr@pitalism.

I think Clement Attlee and Harold Macmillan would be equally appalled at the current state of their parties, tbh.

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Both major parties were effectively taken over by neo-liberal free-market ideologues, to the extent that the Conservatives were no longer really conservative, and Labour no longer represented labour. We've really had about 30 years of a toxic mix of Gramsci-esque cultural relativism and eat-the-seadcorn cr@pitalism.

I think Clement Attlee and Harold Macmillan would be equally appalled at the current state of their parties, tbh.

What did you think of Ted Heath and where he took the Tory party?

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