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southmartin

Would A Labour Ge Victory Be The Best Thing For The Country?

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OK, so we all know labour are the most incompetent bunch of corrupt lying knobs there's ever been... And suggesting that another 5 years of them might be the best option, must surely seem like i've gone nuts...

Well assuming that you've not ruined your screen by spitting coffee over it after reading the thread title, here's my reasoning.

If 'Call me Dave' A.K.A. "Blue Labour" gets in, then they're not going to be very popular. The sheeple will see the first things they do will be raising IRs and tax (they have to really, HPC'ers understand this) - and consequently in a few years Mr + Mrs Joe Average, will remember the 'Good Old Blair/Brown days' when they could pay their mortgage and afford a holiday too...

There's no doubt that the next 5 years aren't going to be very nice - and so rather than destroy labour, a GE loss might give them the ability to get back in after 5 years of raised tory taxes.. thus continuing the misery, albeit with a 5 year gap.

Now, take the alternative... A labour win (granted, it's unlikely!) but surely if Blue Labour were beaten by Red Labour, then that would mean the end of Call Me Dave's leadership, and the tories would implode... and then hopefully would have to reform (again) as a proper alternative to labour, and at the same time they'd probably shift to the right to steal as much of the UKIP support as possible.

A party with that sort of entrenched support, led by a proper conservative, (one who wanted our independence back), might just be worth voting for (in 2015) - and so whilst a labour victory would be devastating short-term, if we took a 25 year view on what was best for the UK - it might actually be the best option.

(PS - regular readers will know I'm no fan of Red Labour - I'm a tad more to the right than that!)

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i think cameron probably has thought this one himself but in the end the right decisions need to be made and as labour has already demonstrated they are the party of debt and spend and then more debt there has to be someone to adminsiter the bitter medicine at some point and dr cameron is as good as any, the only question is whether he too will be seduced into resurrecting the fools' paradise that is Great Debtain which is a road that has to come to a pretty dangerous end at some point - the trick is to build a bridge on the quick and long before that cliff edge comes any further into view. i'm as happy to give cameron a chance of that as any, but i may well vote ukip if his other policies smell of brown.

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how could you ever predict a labour win after the recent council results?

what are the odds at the bookmakers of a labour win?

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i think cameron probably has thought this one himself but in the end the right decisions need to be made and as labour has already demonstrated they are the party of debt and spend and then more debt there has to be someone to adminsiter the bitter medicine at some point and dr cameron is as good as any, the only question is whether he too will be seduced into resurrecting the fools' paradise that is Great Debtain which is a road that has to come to a pretty dangerous end at some point - the trick is to build a bridge on the quick and long before that cliff edge comes any further into view. i'm as happy to give cameron a chance of that as any, but i may well vote ukip if his other policies smell of brown.

The problem is that there two distinct Tory parties,the New Tories and the Old Tories.The new Tories led by Dave are all inclusive hoodie-huggers who are at ease with you being Gay and are quite indistinct from New Labour on virtually everything except that they want to kill foxes and give millionaires a break. The Old Tories (Norman Tebbit,Simon Heffer etc) think that this is a sell out of Thatcherite values and would like to see Cameron lose,or at least not win handsomely so that a more suitable leader can be found.

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If labour get re-elected then even before the political riots across England begin we will have a Sterling crisis as the markets expect the tories to slash the public debt.

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The problem is that there two distinct Tory parties,the New Tories and the Old Tories.The new Tories led by Dave are all inclusive hoodie-huggers who are at ease with you being Gay and are quite indistinct from New Labour on virtually everything except that they want to kill foxes and give millionaires a break. The Old Tories (Norman Tebbit,Simon Heffer etc) think that this is a sell out of Thatcherite values and would like to see Cameron lose,or at least not win handsomely so that a more suitable leader can be found.

well i agree with all that, except i'm not gay ;)

(the gays wouldn't probably ever accept me as i'm neither attractive nor trendy enough!)

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OK, so we all know labour are the most incompetent bunch of corrupt lying knobs there's ever been... And suggesting that another 5 years of them might be the best option, must surely seem like i've gone nuts...

Well assuming that you've not ruined your screen by spitting coffee over it after reading the thread title, here's my reasoning.

If 'Call me Dave' A.K.A. "Blue Labour" gets in, then they're not going to be very popular. The sheeple will see the first things they do will be raising IRs and tax (they have to really, HPC'ers understand this) - and consequently in a few years Mr + Mrs Joe Average, will remember the 'Good Old Blair/Brown days' when they could pay their mortgage and afford a holiday too...

There's no doubt that the next 5 years aren't going to be very nice - and so rather than destroy labour, a GE loss might give them the ability to get back in after 5 years of raised tory taxes.. thus continuing the misery, albeit with a 5 year gap.

Now, take the alternative... A labour win (granted, it's unlikely!) but surely if Blue Labour were beaten by Red Labour, then that would mean the end of Call Me Dave's leadership, and the tories would implode... and then hopefully would have to reform (again) as a proper alternative to labour, and at the same time they'd probably shift to the right to steal as much of the UKIP support as possible.

A party with that sort of entrenched support, led by a proper conservative, (one who wanted our independence back), might just be worth voting for (in 2015) - and so whilst a labour victory would be devastating short-term, if we took a 25 year view on what was best for the UK - it might actually be the best option.

(PS - regular readers will know I'm no fan of Red Labour - I'm a tad more to the right than that!)

I am seriously considering voting Labour in the next GE for exactly these reasons. If the Cons win they will be seen as the party who raised taxes, who lost the UKs AAA rating, who went to the IMF for a bailout. The Cons are at this stage are not significantly different from Labour to hope for a sea-change after the next GE. We can expect more of the same. I would like the Cons to take a big step to the right and represent more of their core vote i.e. Daily Mail/Express readers. I also dont want Labour to slip quietly into the night, I want them to realise the full horror of what they have foisted onto the UK and I want them to see the results of their 'experiment'.

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well i agree with all that, except i'm not gay ;)

(the gays wouldn't probably ever accept me as i'm neither attractive nor trendy enough!)

Sorry, I knew that I used YOU when I should have used ONE.

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I am seriously considering voting Labour in the next GE for exactly these reasons. If the Cons win they will be seen as the party who raised taxes, who lost the UKs AAA rating, who went to the IMF for a bailout. The Cons are at this stage are not significantly different from Labour to hope for a sea-change after the next GE. We can expect more of the same. I would like the Cons to take a big step to the right and represent more of their core vote i.e. Daily Mail/Express readers. I also dont want Labour to slip quietly into the night, I want them to realise the full horror of what they have foisted onto the UK and I want them to see the results of their 'experiment'.

Now you see here we have the crux of the problem.While I don't want people to hunt foxes or bail out millionaires I don't want them to hound people on account of their sexuality either,simply because it's something that they are unable to do anything about. And I don't think things are that bad either economically.So if I was right you would get a Labour government coming out of recession and able to claim the credit for it.I suspect that some of your unwillingness to vote Tory is actually for the reasons I said i.e, you are in the Tebbit/Heffer camp.

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Well assuming that you've not ruined your screen by spitting coffee over it after reading the thread title, here's my reasoning.

The biggest flaw in your reasoning is this: if Labour gets back in, what makes you so sure we'll actually have a vote at any point after that?

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OP you are clearly suffering from temporary insanity! I don't wish Labour to be in power for another 5 minutes! This topic can be safely discarded and filed, with Labour, under Trash.

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What's with all the complicated scenarios? The choice at the next election is simple:

Vote Tory and get misery.

Vote Labour and get national bankruptcy and misery.

It really is a no-brainer.

Nice one RAB.

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What's with all the complicated scenarios? The choice at the next election is simple:

Vote Tory and get misery.

Vote Labour and get national bankruptcy and misery.

It really is a no-brainer.

Spot on........I can see the point that the Tories will get the stick, manipulated by the BBC and others, for trying to put the finances of Britain back in order but another five years of ZaNu and this country is finished on so many levels (presuming it isn't already) that it is hard to know where to start.

ZaNu must go as soon as possible...........

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Since the people running the show pretty much control all sides they must find all this discussion highly amusing. Keep up their good work. They are most grateful I'm sure.

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OP you are clearly suffering from temporary insanity! I don't wish Labour to be in power for another 5 minutes! This topic can be safely discarded and filed, with Labour, under Trash.

Oh don't get me wrong, the very idea of more NuLab makes me feel physically sick... but i'm not looking at 3 years from now, (as we're fecked no matter who gets in) i'm thinking of 10+

I'm sure though if they did somehow manage to steal enough postal votes to get in (let's be honest, that's the only way it'll happen) I doubt they'd last til 2015... but at least by then the damage to Cameron would be done, and a proper tory government could step in

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I certainly agree that a vote for Labour, Liberal or Conservative is a wasted vote at the next election; they are parties from the age of steam. We need a revolution in this country, not a continuation of the same failed outdated rubbish.

+1 - i certainly agree... but are we at the tipping point yet when half the electorate (ok, well 35% then) would go purple rather than red, blue or yellow?

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The biggest flaw in your reasoning is this: if Labour gets back in, what makes you so sure we'll actually have a vote at any point after that?

Good point... perhaps we could ask the Bilderbergers nicely?

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Guest anorthosite
I certainly agree that a vote for Labour, Liberal or Conservative is a wasted vote at the next election; they are parties from the age of steam. We need a revolution in this country, not a continuation of the same failed outdated rubbish.

Good idea!

I'll be voting SNP.

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Oh don't get me wrong, the very idea of more NuLab makes me feel physically sick... but i'm not looking at 3 years from now, (as we're fecked no matter who gets in) i'm thinking of 10+

I'm sure though if they did somehow manage to steal enough postal votes to get in (let's be honest, that's the only way it'll happen) I doubt they'd last til 2015... but at least by then the damage to Cameron would be done, and a proper tory government could step in

Wot is a "proper tory government"? You mean conservatives who consider their first duty is to the taxpayer? We'd have to arm the people first. Conkers won't do it.

Anyway, your OP is straight out of the Alan B'Stard playbook.

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There's no doubt that the next 5 years aren't going to be very nice - and so rather than destroy labour, a GE loss might give them the ability to get back in after 5 years of raised tory taxes.. thus continuing the misery, albeit with a 5 year gap.

Whoever wins next year's election will have to take some tough decisions: these are decisions that, in the short term, will impact on many people's pockets: increased mortgage payments; public sector pay freezes or even cuts; tax increases; etc. As most HPCers understand, in the long term many of these decisions are for the greater good, but the next government - Tory or Labour - faces a period of unpopularity.

That said, I think we are doing the average-Joe-in-the-street a disservice by suggesting he will, for example, blame the Tories. You don't have to be as versed in politics and economics as a regular HPCer to know that the country's on its backside - and that it is largely Labour's fault. I suspect your average Joe understands that (a) the country is in debt, (B) for the sake of their children and grandchildren the country needs to pay down its debt, and © money doesn't grow on trees and some painful decisions need to be made.

I guess if Cameron's cuts do result in some temporary unpopularity, then he could take a tip from Maggie and invade the Falklands or somewhere in order to bank a second term.

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If 'Call me Dave' A.K.A. "Blue Labour" gets in, then they're not going to be very popular. The sheeple will see the first things they do will be raising IRs and tax (they have to really, HPC'ers understand this) - and consequently in a few years Mr + Mrs Joe Average, will remember the 'Good Old Blair/Brown days' when they could pay their mortgage and afford a holiday too...

I hate to say this because it is something I particularly hate in politics, but it will depend on the spin.

Its up to the Tories really whether they appease their base with rhetoric or not.

If there is even a hint...even a little hint of HPCesque politics as retribution-against-people-we-don't-like or Tebbit-style "on your bikeism", they will get hit it with it from both barrels and deserve it. Depending on where you lived in the country, a lot of people didn't like what Maggie did. What made her hated was the grandstanding, the jeering and sneering that her gang revelled in. Given out of the gate the two most important people in the country will both be Etonites, quite likely squaring off against a trades unionist in debates, they need to be very careful about the way things look because they are starting from a dodgy position (through no fault of their own I dare say).

I think Cameron realises this, it is open to question whether all his cabinet do and ultimately whether Cameron has the kind of authority within his own party to maintain the necessary discipline over them.

If he can argue he is doing these things in sorrow rather than anger and look like he means it, he may quite possibly get away with it. Its a tricky time really, Joe Average isn't that thick, he wants cuts. The problem is that he doesn't as yet want to live with the consequences of them. Everyone likes "hard decisions" in abstract and then squeals like a stuck pick when they become concrete and his kids get turned away from university, or his wife winds up on a three year waiting list for an operation or whatever it is. What compounds this is he won't be getting tax cuts to make up for it, but rather tax rises that will limit his ability to make up privately what he will lose publicly (e.g., private education for his kids when class sizes start ramping up).

If he is following the right track on this, the Telegraph will be pretty annoyed a lot of the time. If they start getting happy, Cameron needs to worry.

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Mm, here's an interesting angle. If we vote in BlueLab:

  • They will (should) raise IR & taxes, which will trash house prices
  • House prices go down to sensible 2.5x income levels
  • All the current STRers (inc me) buy an enormous house
  • The country hates Blue Labour for increasing tax and IR and blames them for the vast swathes of NE
  • RedLab get voted back in in 2015 and stay there for at least two terms because people remember the 2010-2015 pain under BlueLab
  • RedLab monetary policy inflates enormous houses the current STRers bought under BlueLab by 300%
  • And so we go round in a circle back to the top, 16 years from now, with the STRers sitting on huge amounts of cash

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What's with all the complicated scenarios? The choice at the next election is simple:

Vote Tory and get misery.

Vote Labour and get national bankruptcy and misery.

It really is a no-brainer.

bankruptcy is inevitable whoever gets in

just because tories get in the UK will magically have a trade surplus again?

what are the tories policies on improving the trade balance , strengthening exports and increasing the UK manufacturing base? the only parties i have heard talking about it are UKIP and BNP

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