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the_dork

Work Advice Needed

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I know there's a range of people on here and would just appreciate any feedback on my situation.

I don't have a contract in my current role (have just never got round to it, small firm etc, stupid I know) but a few weeks ago they told me they think it's best for us both if we move on. They are paying me until end of August but I can leave mid way through August and hence could start earlier than usual notice periods.

Went for an interview and got it but didn't say anything about my current situation, just said was looking for new challenges etc. I am wondering whether it's best to now say to new employer that uncertainty has become official and hence I've been laid off. OR to just treat as normal change of employers and hope my current employer doesn't say anything to them? Will they give me the P45 forms as normal on my last day? eg doesn't specifically state that I've been laid off.

My boss has just had it in for me personally for a while and made my life a misery there. Partially related to my work as I admit I've become complacent and lazy but he kept the 'sacking' process amicable, partially it's just a real personality clash which shouldn't matter on references. I'm just worried whether new firm will take up references. How common is this? If so should I be worried?

Any advice? Ta

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I know there's a range of people on here and would just appreciate any feedback on my situation.

I don't have a contract in my current role (have just never got round to it, small firm etc, stupid I know) but a few weeks ago they told me they think it's best for us both if we move on. They are paying me until end of August but I can leave mid way through August and hence could start earlier than usual notice periods.

Went for an interview and got it but didn't say anything about my current situation, just said was looking for new challenges etc. I am wondering whether it's best to now say to new employer that uncertainty has become official and hence I've been laid off. OR to just treat as normal change of employers and hope my current employer doesn't say anything to them? Will they give me the P45 forms as normal on my last day? eg doesn't specifically state that I've been laid off.

My boss has just had it in for me personally for a while and made my life a misery there. Partially related to my work as I admit I've become complacent and lazy but he kept the 'sacking' process amicable, partially it's just a real personality clash which shouldn't matter on references. I'm just worried whether new firm will take up references. How common is this? If so should I be worried?

Any advice? Ta

Sounds to me like you will be ok.They obviously don't have it in for you because of how they have paid you off.I would suggest you run it past your current gaffer for peace of mind.What would he gain from putting the boot in?

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it's best to now say to new employer that uncertainty has become official and hence I've been laid off

Do that. It's the truth and, in my experience, your new employer will like that fact you were open with them. If you'd been laid off by a growing firm in the middle of a boom, they might be worried you were some kind of problem case but, under current economic circumstances, there's no stigma attached to being made redundant. I don't think p45s have anything other than pay and tax numbers on them btw, so they wouldn't be able to tell by looking at yours that you didn't leave voluntarily. I'd still tell the truth though.

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Do that. It's the truth and, in my experience, your new employer will like that fact you were open with them. If you'd been laid off by a growing firm in the middle of a boom, they might be worried you were some kind of problem case but, under current economic circumstances, there's no stigma attached to being made redundant. I don't think p45s have anything other than pay and tax numbers on them btw, so they wouldn't be able to tell by looking at yours that you didn't leave voluntarily. I'd still tell the truth though.

Thanks. I want to be honest but I'm just worried that if they take up references they might find that I haven't been laid off for strictly economc reasons, it is largely down to me though I'm not overall a 'problem case' which my new firm will quickly discover.

My issue is that should I expect to get the P45 on my last day or will it come when my last cheque is sent (at the end of the month-two weeks later)? If so, would be potentially awkward with new employer?

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Guest theboltonfury
Thanks. I want to be honest but I'm just worried that if they take up references they might find that I haven't been laid off for strictly economc reasons, it is largely down to me though I'm not overall a 'problem case' which my new firm will quickly discover.

My issue is that should I expect to get the P45 on my last day or will it come when my last cheque is sent (at the end of the month-two weeks later)? If so, would be potentially awkward with new employer?

They will probably take a reference and all they are obliged to offer is confirmation that you worked there, which exact dates, and role.

It is against the law to give a bad reference. If the reference is done via HR, which it should be, they will just confirm tyhe above and nothing else. If they call the line manager for an 'off the record chat' then what he/she says is anyone's guess.

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The bare facts are you are leaving one company (by mutual agreement) and fortunately taking up employment at another.

It would be a rare situation for you soon to be old company to give you a bad reference. There should be no issues with your P45 which you should get on the day you leave or soon after.

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My issue is that should I expect to get the P45 on my last day or will it come when my last cheque is sent (at the end of the month-two weeks later)? If so, would be potentially awkward with new employer?

You won't get it until the last payment has been made under your contract and, usually, not for a week or twop after that, especially if it's an outside payroll service being used. It's pretty common to be stuck on an emergency tax code for a month when you start a new job.

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Guest theboltonfury
You won't get it until the last payment has been made under your contract and, usually, not for a week or twop after that, especially if it's an outside payroll service being used. It's pretty common to be stuck on an emergency tax code for a month when you start a new job.

Not if you fill in a p46 on your first day.

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am going in soon where I expect to be officially offered terms, any final thoughts on this? Planning on just saying that work have made official my redundancy and will be paying until end of month though can start in a couple of weeks

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I know there's a range of people on here and would just appreciate any feedback on my situation.

I don't have a contract in my current role (have just never got round to it, small firm etc, stupid I know) but a few weeks ago they told me they think it's best for us both if we move on. They are paying me until end of August but I can leave mid way through August and hence could start earlier than usual notice periods.

Went for an interview and got it but didn't say anything about my current situation, just said was looking for new challenges etc. I am wondering whether it's best to now say to new employer that uncertainty has become official and hence I've been laid off. OR to just treat as normal change of employers and hope my current employer doesn't say anything to them? Will they give me the P45 forms as normal on my last day? eg doesn't specifically state that I've been laid off.

My boss has just had it in for me personally for a while and made my life a misery there. Partially related to my work as I admit I've become complacent and lazy but he kept the 'sacking' process amicable, partially it's just a real personality clash which shouldn't matter on references. I'm just worried whether new firm will take up references. How common is this? If so should I be worried?

Any advice? Ta

Don't mention this to the new boss.

As for references - I am pretty sure it is not illegal for any company to say anything they wish on a reference. However they go down the standard route these days due to issues in the past. (Giving people good personal references who went on to defraud the next place)

Anyway most just gets around this by calling up and speaking to the referee manager directly. All off the record and you can ask what you wish.

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Any employer under Employment Law must provide a Contract of Employment within in Two Months of an employee commencing, setting out the terms of that employment.

A P45 simply contains details of your Tax Code at the last period (e.g. weekly/monthly) payment, total earnings to date in Tax Year; and total tax deducted; your name: your employer's name and employer's PAYE Reference Number.

No intelligent employer today would dare to provide a negative reference: most would provide an anodyne reference.

If an employee had been fired for Gross Misconduct (e.g. theft, embezzelment, sexual assault etc) and such allegation had subsequently been proven in a Court of Law, then they might indicate such.

Never ever mention personality clashes with supervisory staff.

Personally, I would simply state that, "The job was going nowhere, none of the opportunities as at first had transpired and due to the current difficult economic climate, my employer and I reached an amicable agreement that I would be best served in seeking a more challenging position, better suited to my abilities and commitment."

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No intelligent employer today would dare to provide a negative reference: most would provide an anodyne reference.

Thanks for your input, Lots of people have mentioned this. Why? What would they have to lose?

Maybe they don’t dislike me as much as I thought (in that they’re paying me a bit extra) but definitely not happy overall

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Thanks for your input, Lots of people have mentioned this. Why? What would they have to lose?

Maybe they don’t dislike me as much as I thought (in that they’re paying me a bit extra) but definitely not happy overall

because you can take them to court and sue them for loss of earnings if you can prove they gave you a bad (and unfair or inaccurate) reference that caused you not to get a job offer ;)

having said that, a lot of informal referencing still gets done on the phone :unsure:

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Thanks for your input, Lots of people have mentioned this. Why? What would they have to lose?

Maybe they don’t dislike me as much as I thought (in that they’re paying me a bit extra) but definitely not happy overall

The reality is most employers don't even have time for writing references and even if they disliked you intensely it's still a significant hurdle in terms of the extra effort in concocting a bespoke reference featuring lots of 'between the lines stuff'.

The fact your previous employer didn't provide a contract should be enough of a stick to beat them with if they play up, which is very unlikely TBH.

Edit to add: Might be a good idea to put a bit more effort into your next job in the current climate.

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Make sure you get the P45, as if there is any issue with your former employer not having passed on your PAYE and/or NI to HMRC (which, if he wasn't even willing to give you a contract, must be a significant risk), the P45 is proof that you've paid it to your employer, and therefore he's liable, not you.

As others have mentioned, it's almost unheard of for employers to give negative references; not least because they can now be required to disclose them to the referee under the Freedom of Information Act, thereby laying themselves open to a libel action.

I have had one request for a reference from a temporary worker I once supervised, whose contract was not renewed, principally because she made a serious and costly mistake that she could reasonably have been expected not to make. When I was approached for a reference a few weeks later I did not reply. When they chased me up I simply and politely told them that I was not prepared to make any comment.

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Yeah, normally very motivated and try hard. I used to do that in current role but got severely pissed off and started looking elsewhere. This then affected my work and they picked up on this

Overall, I know I'm a good worker-and have been everywhere else

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