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The Baby Sitter's Club

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It's an old chestnut, I know, but it makes life easier to condense the economy by various models and the baby-sitter's club is a good one.

It goes like this: The whole of England is reduced to a housing estate where everyone has kids. In order to go out and have fun everybody needs a baby-sitter. Everyone is prepared to baby-sit in exchange for the same service. So all goods and services are reduced to baby-sitting, there is nothing else. Clearly this housing estate needs organisation because nobody wants to baby-sit without a similar service being available to them too. So the sub-division forms a baby-sitting committee (let's call them government, just to give them a name). The baby-sitting committee, oops, government decides to issue chits to everyone which can be exchanged for one hour of babysitting. Everybody gets five chits and the economy, er, baby-sitting club, is started.

It soon becomes apparent that very few people are using the service and a survey concludes that everyone is saving their chits for emergencies and they are afraid to use them for day to day fun. So the government holds a meeting and decides that everyone should get ten more chits and it makes all the difference because now the people are not afraid to spend them (though they still keep a few in a bottom drawer for emergency use) and the baby-sitting club is a huge success. Things go well for a long time but eventually it becomes apparent that some people don't go out much and they start accumulating chits but don't spend them and everyone else is running out of chits so the baby-sitting club goes into recession and not much baby-sitting gets done.

The government calls a meeting and decides it would be unfair to take away the chits earned by the stay-at-homers, after all they were honestly earned and at the same time they can't force the stay-at-homers to hire babysitters, so they simply print more chits and give everyone ten more.

The stay-at-homers start off with lots of chits and continue to get more but nobody cares. If they don't spend them then that is their problem isn't it? And if they do spend them then everybody can spend more chits too because everyone will have lots of babysitting to do and consequently more chits.

So every once in a while the government has to print more chits and it really doesn't matter . . . or does it?

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You've just found your socialist utopia: from each according to his means (people who have time to babysit), to each according to his needs (people who go out). In all practical terms you've abolished money, by declaring saving has no value and spending no consequence. But maybe you've preserved an illusion of it.

So what does history teach us about countries that abolish money? Good thing your people don't have to eat ....

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You've just found your socialist utopia: from each according to his means (people who have time to babysit), to each according to his needs (people who go out). In all practical terms you've abolished money, by declaring saving has no value and spending no consequence. But maybe you've preserved an illusion of it.

So what does history teach us about countries that abolish money? Good thing your people don't have to eat ....

You appear a little disingenuous. Since baby-sitting represents all goods and services this must include food. Saving chits is the same as saving money so saving does have value. Spending has value because it provides service . . . "fun". Money is not abolished it is continuously being created as required. As an aside: once there is enough food being created within a society (and there is) the activities of the population are simply a way of distributing the food. It doesn't matter what they do, just so long as they perceive it as having value.

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why issue chits from a central source.

a simple IOU issued to the baby sitter to the sitted would do.

if the sitter, didnt need the IOU, she could swap it to someone who did need it for an IOU issued by them.

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why issue chits from a central source.

a simple IOU issued to the baby sitter to the sitted would do.

if the sitter, didnt need the IOU, she could swap it to someone who did need it for an IOU issued by them.

What you are suggesting is the barter system or "favours for mates". It does indeed work but gets more and more difficult to manage as numbers get bigger. That's why we use a housing estate rather than a small village for our model. The need for a universally acceptable money as opposed to personal promises is historical. Sad I suppose but reality.

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What you are suggesting is the barter system or "favours for mates". It does indeed work but gets more and more difficult to manage as numbers get bigger. That's why we use a housing estate rather than a small village for our model. The need for a universally acceptable money as opposed to personal promises is historical. Sad I suppose but reality.

wouldnt work here.

theres the liability insurance, the six months training course after your degree in business studies, the overseeing Ofstead inspections and special cleanroom clothing .

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wouldnt work here.

theres the liability insurance, the six months training course after your degree in business studies, the overseeing Ofstead inspections and special cleanroom clothing .

Quite! That is why we are studying fundamentals so as to give us a friggin' clue what happens next! The old order is dying in front of our eyes. Academically it is already dead. It will be replaced with something and figuring out what that something will be (The Western world will not disappear in a puff of pink smoke) will put those who get their sums right on top of the next heap!

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wouldnt work here.

theres the liability insurance, the six months training course after your degree in business studies, the overseeing Ofstead inspections and special cleanroom clothing .

You forgot the criminal record check and health and safety training.

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Quite! That is why we are studying fundamentals so as to give us a friggin' clue what happens next! The old order is dying in front of our eyes. Academically it is already dead. It will be replaced with something and figuring out what that something will be (The Western world will not disappear in a puff of pink smoke) will put those who get their sums right on top of the next heap!

the world works fine without financial systems.

what happens is that some waster ALWAYS wants to be in charge and tell others how to do things...thats where it all goes wrong. IMHO

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Sounds great though at what point do I get paid? I'd prefer PAYE but i'll do my own tax returns if I have to be self-employed.

You make your own arrangements with whoever employs you as do your clients. When the housing estate baby-sitting committee demands payment for organising it all we have to move to the advanced class. Let's get through this one first.

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You forgot the criminal record check and health and safety training.

yes the CRO check. id forgotten about that...1 to 1 with a child...sounds ideal for the 6 million peadofiles London alone could have a field day...indeed, anyone with a peenis shuold not be allowed within 50 metres of a child after 6pm.

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the world works fine without financial systems.

what happens is that some waster ALWAYS wants to be in charge and tell others how to do things...thats where it all goes wrong. IMHO

I totally agree and I think what you are saying is really a truism. It begs the question: Why do the vast majority allow it to happen?

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You make your own arrangements with whoever employs you as do your clients. When the housing estate baby-sitting committee demands payment for organising it all we have to move to the advanced class. Let's get through this one first.

Sorry, I was being deliberately obtuse.

As a socialist, I actually agree with what you say however I just can't see the monumental changes required for this to be wrought. Ultimately, the very system that you propose is diametrically opposed to the wants of the powerful minority. Violent insurrection, perhaps?

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And what happens when the people with a sack full of chits, have a new kid and decide to cash in all their saved chits? Will there be enough baby sitters to go around?

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I totally agree and I think what you are saying is really a truism. It begs the question: Why do the vast majority allow it to happen?

well, for me, i dont want to be in charge of others, i find the task onerous.

at the same time, I resent authority for authorities sake.

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I totally agree and I think what you are saying is really a truism. It begs the question: Why do the vast majority allow it to happen?

It is because a small group propose something. Another small group opposes it. The remaining bulk of the population are then convinced that they have to make a choice about something they never displayed any interest in previously.

p-o-p

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Sorry, I was being deliberately obtuse.

As a socialist, I actually agree with what you say however I just can't see the monumental changes required for this to be wrought. Ultimately, the very system that you propose is diametrically opposed to the wants of the powerful minority. Violent insurrection, perhaps?

Although violent insurrection is always a possibility it has a rather dismal record (France, USSR etc. etc.) Mind you it was remarkably successful in USA! Though for lots of reasons that was a special case. It is a major step forward that you and thousands of others like you recognise that the problems are caused by this powerful elite. Chances are high that this powerful elite will stay right where they are. In the past, wars were a very useful culling device and plague and pestilence were handy. The chavs can be bought off with beer, TV and pizza. The rest of us are no longer useful on the farm or in the factory. We are the problem for, and threat to, the ruling elite.

Traditionally they have kept us fighting each other over race, religion and nationality but this is wearing very thin. Our challenge is to figure out what the ruling elite is going to do and then counteract it or avoid it.

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It is because a small group propose something. Another small group opposes it. The remaining bulk of the population are then convinced that they have to make a choice about something they never displayed any interest in previously.

p-o-p

I disagree.

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And what happens when the people with a sack full of chits, have a new kid and decide to cash in all their saved chits? Will there be enough baby sitters to go around?

Are you seriously suggesting that our economy can have too many jobs? We should be so lucky!

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well, for me, i dont want to be in charge of others, i find the task onerous.

at the same time, I resent authority for authorities sake.

Then you will always be governed by those who are in charge or those who vote.

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Then you will always be governed by those who are in charge or those who vote.

I vote.

being governed is not so bad. Its over governed thats a problem.

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It is because a small group propose something. Another small group opposes it. The remaining bulk of the population are then convinced that they have to make a choice about something they never displayed any interest in previously.

p-o-p

If this is true then the general population is not really intersted in their own government or too stupid or too lazy or all of the above. They deserve the government they get but where does that put us? Those who do care but are small in number. We need a plan! Your input is important, please make a donation.

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If this is true then the general population is not really intersted in their own government or too stupid or too lazy or all of the above. They deserve the government they get but where does that put us? Those who do care but are small in number. We need a plan! Your input is important, please make a donation.

thats democracy.

the majority of people, shall we call them sheeple, will vote for the cause that gives them most.

hence the natural tendancy of democracies to borrow more and more to pay for the wins at election.

the end result is a debauching of the currency and state failure.

proof that babysitters are evil and must be removed from these sacred lands.

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