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Si1

Public Sector Optimism

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Apparently it wasn't really much of a recession anyway (so they told me) and it was really press/bankers etc talking us into a recession - basically labour have done a sound job and labour have won their vote for handling of the economy.

You can't win can you.

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..............& they get pissed the night of the election & forget to Vote...................Next Day things will seem "Differant".

Mike

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Apparently it wasn't really much of a recession anyway (so they told me) and it was really press/bankers etc talking us into a recession - basically labour have done a sound job and labour have won their vote for handling of the economy.

You can't win can you.

Speaking as a public sector worker ( :ph34r: ), all I can say is that sort of view isn't the norm in all areas. Lots of people know the score. We (healthcare) are in brace positions and have been for nearly a year now. Not that it will be a tough one to be honest, far too much money flowed in to begin with. No big deal now the taps get turned off.

But to reply to your last words....no, you can't win, none of us can.

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You post some insightful things Si1 but honestly, you are just trying to cause trouble here.

We know what your views are on the public sector, and who you think "Labour voters" are and all that.

But this is really pushing it. Couldn't you even use google to find a link to tenuously support yourself here?

Back from the pub on your own? Looking for a fight maybe? Am I close?

Edited by Cogs

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Apparently it wasn't really much of a recession anyway (so they told me) and it was really press/bankers etc talking us into a recession - basically labour have done a sound job and labour have won their vote for handling of the economy.

You can't win can you.

Isn't it the private sector (or at least certain VIs) saying this.

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You post some insightful things Si1 but honestly, you are just trying to cause trouble here.

We know what your views are on the public sector, and who you think "Labour voters" are and all that.

But this is really pushing it. Couldn't you even use google to find a link to tenuously support yourself here?

Back from the pub on your own? Looking for a fight maybe? Am I close?

no. people been round for tea. just feel a bit hopeless. posted here as a way if venting spleen and seeking empathy, but fair point, I know it's a rant.

Edited by Si1

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no. people been round for tea. just feel a bit hopeless. posted here as a way if venting spleen and seeking empathy, but fair point, I know it's a rant.

Fear not, the day'll come when their stumbling round with the contents of their desk in a cardboard archive box just like the Lehman's lot.

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Fear not, the day'll come when their stumbling round with the contents of their desk in a cardboard archive box just like the Lehman's lot.

to be honest, don't think it's so symetrical. I think I'm insulated enough, but basically the winners from the public sector expansion will remain winners, as the money is pocketed, and many many relative innocents will pay and suffer for this over the coming decade and prob a bit more. The lack of recognition is the galling bit - going back to 'why do people vote labour' threads.

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but basically the winners from the public sector expansion will remain winners, as the money is pocketed, and many many relative innocents will pay and suffer for this over the coming decade and prob a bit more.

like those in the private sector perhaps. I'm thinking builders, architects and consultants mainly, but there's a whole heap of companies, individuals and trades from the private sector who've pocketed a serious amount of money from this expansion.

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like those in the private sector perhaps. I'm thinking builders, architects and consultants mainly, but there's a whole heap of companies, individuals and trades from the private sector who've pocketed a serious amount of money from this expansion.

many of which have bought into the BTL dream.

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As long as the state can do QE without causing runaway inflation, the public sector never has to worry about cutbacks. In fact it is a smart move to expand some public sector areas like health care as a way to broadly get money into the economy.

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My husband is a depute head in a secondary school and he and his colleagues have just been job-sized. All of them went down and one guy, who started recently and therefore doesn't have a conserved salary for the next three years, got a £4K pay cut. It is, of course, possible that they were all paid too much anyway but it seems more likely that the boom days for the public sector are very much over and that these kinds of methods of decreasing salaries may become more widespread.

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My husband is a depute head in a secondary school and he and his colleagues have just been job-sized. All of them went down and one guy, who started recently and therefore doesn't have a conserved salary for the next three years, got a £4K pay cut. It is, of course, possible that they were all paid too much anyway but it seems more likely that the boom days for the public sector are very much over and that these kinds of methods of decreasing salaries may become more widespread.

that's the reality, rather than aa3's QE will help 'finance' public spending line.

Irrespective of whether technically aa3 is right, what he doesn't seem to appreciate is that public sector spend is as much a political decision as it is about the financial position.

What i call the deficit hawks will get a lot of concessions from current and future policy makers, even if the deficit has to persist for a few years because of what's happening in the private sector. There most certainly will be cutbacks for political convenience.

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My husband is a depute head in a secondary school and he and his colleagues have just been job-sized. All of them went down and one guy, who started recently and therefore doesn't have a conserved salary for the next three years, got a £4K pay cut. It is, of course, possible that they were all paid too much anyway but it seems more likely that the boom days for the public sector are very much over and that these kinds of methods of decreasing salaries may become more widespread.

thats a start in the right direction

all public sector salaries should be culled by at least 50% for any amount over 25K

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thats a start in the right direction

all public sector salaries should be culled by at least 50% for any amount over 25K

You keep saying that. Do you think you can buck the market because you really, really want to?

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You keep saying that. Do you think you can buck the market because you really, really want to?

no, its my opinion.

PS workers are paid way too much.

better to cull the salaries of the above average waged than to sack them all. at least this will get the cuts in the right place, and not in the working nts and bolts of services....which will be the first things they cut in current thinking.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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no, its my opinion.

PS workers are paid way too much.

Not nearly as much as they'll make when the state can no longer afford them.

You'll source surgeons where exactly?

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Not nearly as much as they'll make when the state can no longer afford them.

You'll source surgeons where exactly?

surgeons wont be sacked...they just wont be earning £100K they wont mind because their differentials will be preserved.

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better to cull the salaries of the above average waged than to sack them all. at least this will get the cuts in the right place, and not in the working nts and bolts of services....which will be the first things they cut in current thinking.

No, far, far better to close down large parts of the state and withdraw services completely.

All your suggestion would do would be to create an even more dysfunctional system than we have now where everyone with marketable skills (and there are at least a few...) buggers off and if you want anything it will be consultancy rates all the way, either out of your pocket directly or from the taxpayer. Meanwhile, you haven't provided any safe point of entry for the private sector with the monkey of state monopoly still on the back of the sector. Anyone who is any good will probably wind up finding themselves much better off once the dust clears and all the rest...well, life is tough.

This is what happens when your first thoughts are of petty retribution rather than solving the problem.

Edited by Cogs

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Too many people in the public sector couldn't give a damn about the state of the public finances; they want their gold plated pensions and to hell with the consequences. They'd rather force the costs and impose lower standards of living on currents workers than take the hit themselves, well I think a lot of younger workers are going to have a major problem with this attitude.

Edited by chefdave

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No, far, far better to close down large parts of the state and withdraw services completely.

All your suggestion would do would be to create an even more dysfunctional system than we have now where everyone with marketable skills (and there are at least a few...) buggers off and if you want anything it will consultancy rates all the way. Meanwhile, you haven't provided any safe point of entry for the private sector with the monkey of state monopoly still on the back of the sector.

go where exactly...and moving is a problem as we all know.

and the public services will have little money to fund consultants.

funny, if I go into MAcdonalds, they dont say to me, thank for your order, but if you pay a little extra, our chef will cook the burger right now, using our kitchens and beef, ahead of the others in the queue.

shut down large parts of the state?....now we have a recipe for total inaction as the guys at the top of each department, still with their 100K salaries, will be obfuscating and arese covering in a waste fest that will make even Caligula blush.

that can come, but we can start on the biggest costs straight away...salaries.....then pensions.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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surgeons wont be sacked...they just wont be earning £100K they wont mind because their differentials will be preserved.

They'll play an extra round of a golf a day and sod you.

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No, far, far better to close down large parts of the state and withdraw services completely.

All your suggestion would do would be to create an even more dysfunctional system than we have now where everyone with marketable skills (and there are at least a few...) buggers off and if you want anything it will be consultancy rates all the way, either out of your pocket directly or from the taxpayer. Meanwhile, you haven't provided any safe point of entry for the private sector with the monkey of state monopoly still on the back of the sector. Anyone who is any good will probably wind up finding themselves much better off once the dust clears and all the rest...well, life is tough.

This is what happens when your first thoughts are of petty retribution rather than solving the problem.

paying a proper wage rather than the towers of overspend that is currently happening is not retribution.

sacking them wholesale, and worse, cutting back on the front end is much worse....but it does get headlines, and needs lots of spokespeople from the top and generates lots of paperwork.....as usual.

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(2009-2010)Total public spending is expected to be around £671.4 billion this year, around £10,900 for every man, woman and child in the UK. It is set to rise to £701.7 billion in 2010-11.

http://budget.treasury.gov.uk/where_taxpay...ey_is_spent.htm

In 2008-2009 the budget was: Total public spending is expected to be around £618 billion for the coming year, around £10,100 for every man, woman, and child in the UK

In 2007-2008 the budget was: Total public spending is expected to be around £587 billion for the coming year, around £9,650 for every man

In 2006-2007 the budget was: Total public spending is expected to be around £552 billion for the coming year, around £9,200 for every man, woman and child in the UK.

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go where exactly...and moving is a problem as we all know.

and the public services will have little money to fund consultants.

funny, if I go into MAcdonalds, they dont say to me, thank for your order, but if you pay a little extra, our chef will cook the burger right now, using our kitchens and beef, ahead of the others in the queue.

shut down large parts of the state?....now we have a recipe for total inaction as the guys at the top of each department, still with their 100K salaries, will be obfuscating and arese covering in a waste fest that will make even Caligula blush.

that can come, but we can start on the biggest costs straight away...salaries.....then pensions.

Close down departments, mothball the buildings or let them out cheaply to people who can do something with them.

And go where? Into the vibrant new 100% private healthcare, personal care and education industry of course.

But look, you seem to be in complete denial here that the state has no privileged position with regard to the labour market. For useless staff, there needs to be a wide cull not the dripfeeding of money to mediocrities. But for the rest, there is a world market out there. A good surgeon, a successful professor or whatever go practically anywhere in the world and be offered a job. We saw this in the early 90s when the nurses decamped en mass to the USA. You can stamp your foot all you like, it might work in la-la land but it won't work here.

Edited by Cogs

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