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rolf

Anyone Actually Want An Id Card?

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

Now I don't like that law but it's not going to change. So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport. Sadly, country I'm in at the moment is one of the few who give ID cards only to citizens (rather than residents).

So bring on the ID cards I say! I've carried one before in another country (Hong Kong) and it was very useful. Not sure I see what all the fuss against them is all about.

btw the Tories want to scrap them if they get into power. Assuming it is not until next summer the GE, it will be too late. You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen, these are false promises by the Tories. The Lib Dems champion personal rights but even they have not made such a dumb promise.

What do you think?

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

Now I don't like that law but it's not going to change. So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport. Sadly, country I'm in at the moment is one of the few who give ID cards only to citizens (rather than residents).

So bring on the ID cards I say! I've carried one before in another country (Hong Kong) and it was very useful. Not sure I see what all the fuss against them is all about.

btw the Tories want to scrap them if they get into power. Assuming it is not until next summer the GE, it will be too late. You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen, these are false promises by the Tories. The Lib Dems champion personal rights but even they have not made such a dumb promise.

What do you think?

It's the database that concerns me - I'm indifferent to the ID cards themselves.

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

...

In Spain it worked rather well when I was living there, but the UK government track record is not great when it comes to keeping your info safe.

I think it is the UK government rather than the ID cards themselves that I have a problem with.

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I'm not against them in principle, but am in practice. Quite simply, I don't believe the state is capable of getting such a system up and running in a safe, cost-effective, secure and timely fashion. For what it's worth, this isn't a dig at Labour, as I think it would be just as much of a farce under the other parties.

Or, in a nutshell, ID cards have "feature creep" written all over them in huge red letters.

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It's the database which, if done properly, would actually make life less frustrating.

Why oh why does every government agency have a different system and none of them talk to each other?

Why am I constantly filling in forms with my address?

In Sweden you give your personnummer and that is usually that (for anything from hospitals to DVD rentals).

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Guest Skinty
You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen

Why not?

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Guest X-QUORK
It's the database that concerns me

+25,000,000

Government intrusion, removal of personal freedom, increased surveillance.

It should be bloody obvious to all but the seriously dim.

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+25,000,000

Government intrusion, removal of personal freedom, increased surveillance.

It should be bloody obvious to all but the seriously dim.

Exactly. The only positive I can see is that it will help catch more common criminal scum. But where are we going to put them all? The jails are full and we can't afford to run them, let alone build more.

Forget ID cards and bring back the stocks and the gallows, job done.

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

Now I don't like that law but it's not going to change. So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport. Sadly, country I'm in at the moment is one of the few who give ID cards only to citizens (rather than residents).

So bring on the ID cards I say! I've carried one before in another country (Hong Kong) and it was very useful. Not sure I see what all the fuss against them is all about.

btw the Tories want to scrap them if they get into power. Assuming it is not until next summer the GE, it will be too late. You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen, these are false promises by the Tories. The Lib Dems champion personal rights but even they have not made such a dumb promise.

What do you think?

Don't care what other countries do - I don't want one. I simply do not trust the British state with more power.

I don't believe the argument that it will make stuff easier, day-to-day, and I certainly don't believe the argument that it will make us safer. Quite the opposite, actually, because as soon as someone works out how to circumvent the system (either by making fake cards, or getting ones issued illegally) then we'll be less safe because ID card will be the only form of check on people and, obviously, everyone with a government ID card "must be allright, eh Guv".

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It's the database which, if done properly, would actually make life less frustrating.

Why oh why does every government agency have a different system and none of them talk to each other?

Why am I constantly filling in forms with my address?

In Sweden you give your personnummer and that is usually that (for anything from hospitals to DVD rentals).

But we already have one - it's called a National Insurance number. Why do we need yet another form of ID?

If you're so keen on adopting something because the Swedish do it then what about all the other intrusive crap they seem to love; how about a system where anyone with an internet connection can log into a government database which will tell you how much everyone has in the bank, how much they earn, how much tax they paid, what benefits they are claiming, their address and what cars are registered to them? Scandinavian countries have some pretty socialist roots when it comes down to it and I don't really want to be going that way, to be quite honest.

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Exactly. The only positive I can see is that it will help catch more common criminal scum. But where are we going to put them all? The jails are full and we can't afford to run them, let alone build more.

Forget ID cards and bring back the stocks and the gallows, job done.

How?

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Why on earth would we give this state, the snooping state that uses anti-terror legislation to check your dustbins for school catchment infringement, that fits up innocent people to get a conviction, access to a card that contains information such as DNA, something we shed everywhere, everyday just by being alive?

Lunacy

I wouldn't trust these arsehats to run a whelk stall

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Why on earth would we give this state, the snooping state that uses anti-terror legislation to check your dustbins for school catchment infringement, that fits up innocent people to get a conviction, access to a card that contains information such as DNA, something we shed everywhere, everyday just by being alive?

Lunacy

I wouldn't trust these arsehats to run a whelk stall

+1, but with more colourful language.

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I'll be more receptive to the argument in favour of ID cards the day that the police at G20 are punished properly for concealing their identity tabs

(perhaps if they would explain what happened to Ian Tomlinson too)

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
I'll be more receptive to the argument in favour of ID cards the day that the police at G20 are punished properly for concealing their identity tabs

(perhaps if they would explain what happened to Ian Tomlinson too)

Oh yes, what was the likely cause of death in the end?

Did the family get enough money to keep quiet?

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The last I heard was that there was going to be a third autopsy but have heard nothing since - assume charges are pending or have been made so it's become sub judice. That or the govt are hoping we'll just forget about it by never mentioning it again!!!

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The last I heard was that there was going to be a third autopsy but have heard nothing since - assume charges are pending or have been made so it's become sub judice. That or the govt are hoping we'll just forget about it by never mentioning it again!!!

Think the last I heard was that a copper had been suspended pending the outcome of investigations and a decision on whether to prosecute.

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But we already have one - it's called a National Insurance number. Why do we need yet another form of ID?

If you're so keen on adopting something because the Swedish do it then what about all the other intrusive crap they seem to love; how about a system where anyone with an internet connection can log into a government database which will tell you how much everyone has in the bank, how much they earn, how much tax they paid, what benefits they are claiming, their address and what cars are registered to them? Scandinavian countries have some pretty socialist roots when it comes down to it and I don't really want to be going that way, to be quite honest.

...but none of that intrusive crap really worries or bothers me. However to be honest, when I lived in Sweden (for 5yrs) I didn't look into it in detail (and its potential for abuse). All I will say is that life goes on in Sweden, a bit boring maybe, but at least not as disfunctional as life in the UK.

So in principle they might be a good thing, but I completely agree with people on this thread that this government (and the opposition) cannot be trusted to make it work on time and on budget, or to prevent the data being misused, or to prevent the inevitable mission creep (already shown with DNA database, photographing cops etc).

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

Now I don't like that law but it's not going to change. So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport. Sadly, country I'm in at the moment is one of the few who give ID cards only to citizens (rather than residents).

So bring on the ID cards I say! I've carried one before in another country (Hong Kong) and it was very useful. Not sure I see what all the fuss against them is all about.

btw the Tories want to scrap them if they get into power. Assuming it is not until next summer the GE, it will be too late. You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen, these are false promises by the Tories. The Lib Dems champion personal rights but even they have not made such a dumb promise.

What do you think?

My only problem is that there are other cards in EU countries that are apparently easier to copy than our passports.

What annoys me is that despite the UK not being in Schengen our border guards allow people to travel from the EU on ID cards rather than full passports.

Surely an easy route for people smugglers to get any scrounging ***** into the UK?

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I change my mind all the time on this but now I've moved abroad, I want one! Many countries with ID cards require you to carry one at all times.

Now I don't like that law but it's not going to change. So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport. Sadly, country I'm in at the moment is one of the few who give ID cards only to citizens (rather than residents).

So bring on the ID cards I say! I've carried one before in another country (Hong Kong) and it was very useful. Not sure I see what all the fuss against them is all about.

btw the Tories want to scrap them if they get into power. Assuming it is not until next summer the GE, it will be too late. You cannot scrap an ID card scheme once it has been launched - it just won't happen, these are false promises by the Tories. The Lib Dems champion personal rights but even they have not made such a dumb promise.

What do you think?

What do I think? With all due respect, I think you're talking balls. Why do you want an ID card now you've moved abroad? I do not understand your argument.

The Tories, Lib Dems, even Labour (if they chose to), could scrap the ID scheme - whether it's been implemented or not.

The authorities have shown, time and time again, that they cannot be trusted to handle sensitive information securely and safely. People seem to have forgotten the missing disk of child benefit details that is still out there in the flux. Fraudsters would have a field day if they got their mitts on a disk containing the fingerprints, biometric details, etc, of a large proportion of UK citizens.

Also, you say that an ID card would be more handy than a passport: ID cards are not replacing passports (people will still need passports to travel overseas).

Plus, the cost. Not just to the individual (around 60 quid a shot, and more if you need to replace a lost card), but also the bill to the taxpayer. I cannot see how that money is clawed back.

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....

Surely an easy route for people smugglers to get any scrounging ***** into the UK?

Surely they all live in Benidorm and are still entitled to come home even though they retired there? Wouldn't think you need to smuggle the pensioners back TBH, but I might be wrong.

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It's the database that concerns me - I'm indifferent to the ID cards themselves.

Surely there is already a passport database?

Why not?

I just think its so big a change with far greater reaching implications than our shores. The card will be acceptable throughout the EU for travel (won't need your passport). Government agencies the world over will learn to recognise and accept it. There will be too much political pressure from overseas to keep it if Cameron tries to get rid of it. Let's not forget that he's a Bilderburger too. Won't happen.

+25,000,000

Government intrusion, removal of personal freedom, increased surveillance.

It should be bloody obvious to all but the seriously dim.

How? We already use passports don't we?

But we already have one - it's called a National Insurance number. Why do we need yet another form of ID?

If you're so keen on adopting something because the Swedish do it then what about all the other intrusive crap they seem to love; how about a system where anyone with an internet connection can log into a government database which will tell you how much everyone has in the bank, how much they earn, how much tax they paid, what benefits they are claiming, their address and what cars are registered to them? Scandinavian countries have some pretty socialist roots when it comes down to it and I don't really want to be going that way, to be quite honest.

An NI no. is not ID. And the above situation you describe: how does an ID card change anything? Surely they can already use a passport no. or combination of name, DOB and address as a link between databases if they wanted to. An ID card doesn't change anything.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Why on earth would we give this state, the snooping state that uses anti-terror legislation to check your dustbins for school catchment infringement, that fits up innocent people to get a conviction, access to a card that contains information such as DNA, something we shed everywhere, everyday just by being alive?

Lunacy

I wouldn't trust these arsehats to run a whelk stall

The card does not contain your DNA. Your database record does contain two fingerprints though. This is in line with other ID card systems around the world, some of which are decades old.

What do I think? With all due respect, I think you're talking balls. Why do you want an ID card now you've moved abroad? I do not understand your argument.

The Tories, Lib Dems, even Labour (if they chose to), could scrap the ID scheme - whether it's been implemented or not.

The authorities have shown, time and time again, that they cannot be trusted to handle sensitive information securely and safely. People seem to have forgotten the missing disk of child benefit details that is still out there in the flux. Fraudsters would have a field day if they got their mitts on a disk containing the fingerprints, biometric details, etc, of a large proportion of UK citizens.

Also, you say that an ID card would be more handy than a passport: ID cards are not replacing passports (people will still need passports to travel overseas).

Plus, the cost. Not just to the individual (around 60 quid a shot, and more if you need to replace a lost card), but also the bill to the taxpayer. I cannot see how that money is clawed back.

I want an ID card now that I'm abroad because I'm living in a country where carrying ID is required by law. You can even be held in a cell until someone drops by to produce your ID on your behalf. But only citizens rather than residents are issued them. So I am forced to carry my passport around. I already explained this so after reiterating this, do you now understand? Or too many "balls" in your gob?

This requirement is common in many countries around the world where an ID card is compulsory. A huge list of them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_document

I don't see their citizens protesting in the street about it so, even though our government is incompetent, I really think the disadvantages have been overblown.

Why would fraudsters have a field day? Show me an example of this happening in one of the other countries in the Wikipedia list. Don't blame zaNU Labour: as bad as this government is, there are plenty far worse and more corrupt on that list.

The ID card would be sufficient to travel without a passport in the whole of the EU. Pretty handy surely you can't deny this.

I do think the cost is too high though. In other countries, it is far less. Mind you, I object more to paying the TV license than for an ID card.

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"So an ID card would be much more handy than a bloody passport."

So, just because you are too flippin' idle or disorganised to carry your flippin' passport you think everyone else should have an id card.

I think that is about the most selfish statement I have ever heard.

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