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Uk Further And Higher Education System In Total Collapse

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Bail out the banks.

Allow the bankers to keep the money they've made from indebting the population and give them more to produce debt and gamble with.

Education doesn't matter.

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Expect this to lead to strike action

Too late for an effective strike this year - Graduation has been and gone. Next realistic opportunity for action will be next May-ish.

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Guest absolutezero
Too late for an effective strike this year - Graduation has been and gone. Next realistic opportunity for action will be next May-ish.

I disagree. Striking at the start of the new term would cause a fair bit of fuss.

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Ask yourself this: Would this many redundancies be happening if the government's dream of more of the young unemployed going into further and higher education was in fact being realised?

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Guest absolutezero
Ask yourself this: Would this many redundancies be happening if the government's dream of more of the young unemployed going into further and higher education was in fact being realised?

You mean the public have caught on to the degree scam?!

Holy mackerel, Batman!

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Ask yourself this: Would this many redundancies be happening if the government's dream of more of the young unemployed going into further and higher education was in fact being realised?

I'm sure the government is on target.

And if it isn't it'll create a new target.

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I disagree. Striking at the start of the new term would cause a fair bit of fuss.

The union can only count on calling out about 20%, and at any normal time admin will just bring in postdocs to cover. UCU generally gets almost no press coverage when they do call us out, so the only people who would notice are the students, and they're all half cut from Freshers anyway. The only way an October strike could be effective is if it was a long strike, and there are few academics who could afford that.

The only pinch point is exam marking time (especially if the union calls a work to rule as well), when all hands are on deck around the clock and postdocs can't be used. A delay there causes havoc.

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Ask yourself this: Would this many redundancies be happening if the government's dream of more of the young unemployed going into further and higher education was in fact being realised?

As far as I can see there are few in the University system that would disagree that too many go for a degree these days. Bring back the Polys, NVQs etc.

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I do not think junior academics get a decent reward for their efforts. But I do think the sector is due for some hard times because of the self indulgent way it has been managed. The activity is fundamentally flawed because degree classifications are meaningless. Young people have been sold sham pearls, employers do not know what they are getting.

The decision makers in universities have so far got away with a very rewarding deception.

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As far as I can see there are few in the University system that would disagree that too many go for a degree these days. Bring back the Polys, NVQs etc.

As a poly man, I'd have to agree.

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The union can only count on calling out about 20%, and at any normal time admin will just bring in postdocs to cover.

Postdocs and admin staff wouldn't strike?

Edit to add::

I agree that the exam period is the most effective time, but I don't agree that a strike at any other point in time wouldn't be disruptive, particularly on tough courses when the students are paying fees.

As far as postdocs and admin staff are concernced this doesn't have the same motivation as the last strike which was primarily over academic pay. This time jobs are being shed across the board

Edited by wealthy

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Guest absolutezero
Do they get paid even when they are on strike? If so why work, just go on strike all the time?

You forfeit pay when you strike.

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As a poly man, I'd have to agree.

It was madness to close them and try and shoe-horn everything into a single class of institution. They did what they were meant to do very well, and as universities with a very different priority set, they no longer do.

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Good.. the governments hopeless plan to pretend our nation was better educated by lowering the bar for university entrance and offering courses no employers value is going to be shown up for the hopeless waste of money it was..... thousands of students in needless debt becasue of it and now lives being turned on their head through cutting that which never should have been expanded in the first place....... I hope someone is keeping score of all the needless govt wastage... look at it this way it wouldn't surprise me if the gov had not been wasting (spending needlessly) soemwhere between £50Bn and £100Bn per year..... over the course of the labour govt that adds up to guess what Oh yes the size of the entrie national debt over labours hopeless and useless government...... just think without their unrestrained and wasteful expenditure we could be sitting here as a nation owing precisely £0....... I hope no one ever votes for labour again and I am ashamed that so many voted for them over the last three elections.... the evidence was there, the warning isgns were there but the stupid ones chose instead to vote labour in again and again and again.

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Postdocs and admin staff wouldn't strike?

There are virtually no postdocs in the UCU

The admin staff are not in UCU, mainly Unison I think.

I agree that the exam period is the most effective time, but I don't agree that a strike at any other point in time wouldn't be disruptive, particularly on tough courses when the students are paying fees.

Having seen non-exam period strikes from both sides of the fence - academic and student - I would disagree - unless it goes on for weeks labs etc go on as normal with postdocs running them and the academics just schedule extra lectures to catch it all up after the strike. Madness I know.

As far as postdocs and admin staff are concernced this doesn't have the same motivation as the last strike which was primarily over academic pay. This time jobs are being shed across the board

Postdocs don't care about redundancies to any great extent - you can't be made redundant if you are on a fixed term contract (or rather you can but they have to buy the whole contract out). The redundancies are only targeting open contracts.

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Do they get paid even when they are on strike? If so why work, just go on strike all the time?

No, we do not get paid when we are on strike.

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Good.. the governments hopeless plan to pretend our nation was better educated by lowering the bar for university entrance and offering courses no employers value is going to be shown up for the hopeless waste of money it was..... thousands of students in needless debt becasue of it and now lives being turned on their head through cutting that which never should have been expanded in the first place....... I hope someone is keeping score of all the needless govt wastage... look at it this way it wouldn't surprise me if the gov had not been wasting (spending needlessly) soemwhere between £50Bn and £100Bn per year..... over the course of the labour govt that adds up to guess what Oh yes the size of the entrie national debt over labours hopeless and useless government...... just think without their unrestrained and wasteful expenditure we could be sitting here as a nation owing precisely £0....... I hope no one ever votes for labour again and I am ashamed that so many voted for them over the last three elections.... the evidence was there, the warning isgns were there but the stupid ones chose instead to vote labour in again and again and again.

If you actually bothered to look then you might find that many of the cuts are being made in science departments in top tier universities

Try to explain how this is good rather than giving us a knee jerk reaction :rolleyes:

If you look at the way the research funding was allocated this year it went to "most improved" i.e., the university of west dulwich which can only improve 100% on its shocking record - while the top performing research institutions got their relative share of the funding cut. I'm not sure how binning jobs in Imperial's department of medicine is a good thing.

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If you actually bothered to look then you might find that many of the cuts are being made in science departments in top tier universities

Try to explain how this is good rather than giving us a knee jerk reaction :rolleyes:

If you look at the way the research funding was allocated this year it went to "most improved" i.e., the university of west dulwich which can only improve 100% on its shocking record - while the top performing research institutions got their relative share of the funding cut. I'm not sure how binning jobs in Imperial's department of medicine is a good thing.

+1

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There are virtually no postdocs in the UCU

The admin staff are not in UCU, mainly Unison I think.

There's been a drive to recruit them. A letter went to the postdocs recenty asking them to join.

Postdocs don't care about redundancies to any great extent - you can't be made redundant if you are on a fixed term contract (or rather you can but they have to buy the whole contract out). The redundancies are only targeting open contracts.

I don't agree. Although the postdocs won't be made redundant they'll sure as hell be aware that the few academic jobs that are out there when they finished are becoming even fewer. If that's not enough to get them out there threat of their supervisors being laid off will add to it.

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