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Is Obama America's Gorbachev?

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By now, it's self-evident that the "change" voted for in November's election was too horrifying to articulate. It still is. The suburban sprawl economy was all we had left. Now it's gone and we're stuck with all its deleveraging after-effects -- the worst case of "buyer's remorse" since the fall of Nazi Germany. Thus, the only "change" that President Obama can really work for is the health care system, which is a life-and-death matter. The sordid rackets so ostentatiously infecting the system boil down vividly to lives ruined and bankrupted, and a system more frightful to deal with than disease itself. Probably the baseline truth is that health care will end up being rationed one way or another. It's another prime symptom of population overshoot, and a reminder that life is tragic.

As another blogger put it so nicely last week on the web (sorry, but I forget who or where), this isn't a "recession," it's a collapse. The excellent Dmitry Orlov has outlined the process very nicely in his book "Reinventing Collapse" about the parallels between the demise of the Soviet Union and the prospects for demise of the US as currently constituted. Mikhail Gorbachev presided over the Soviet collapse. He must have been a leader of very subtle abilities. Not only did he survive to enjoy a busy second act of life with a Nobel Prize in his pocket, but he accomplished a nearly bloodless transition in a society long-conditioned to bloodletting as the primary political act.

Here in the USA, where we have had over two hundred years experience with peaceful power transitions -- even during the convulsions of 1860-65 -- the outcome this time might not be so appetizing. It would be one of the supreme ironies of history if it turned out that the US was incapable of ending its most self-destructive rackets peacefully and bloodlessly, while the Russians shucked off its Soviet racket like an old sweater. The way I see it, Mr. Obama just doesn't have much time before his authority and legitimacy slough off and he is left with only his genial smile. The "hope" vested in him will end up in a Museum of Lost Hopes, along with the integrity of TV news and the rectitude of the medical profession. And funding for that museum will be cut by President Sarah Palin, representing Naziism US style -- i.e. Naziism without the brains.

full blog at: http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/07/is-obama-...achev.html#more

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Kunstler appears to be a bit of a, well, Kunstler really. At the beginning of Obama's reign he was swooning like a teenage prom queen. Now he's slowly seeing what others saw right at the start. A bit like Mr Keiser.

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"The suburban sprawl economy was all we had left. Now it's gone and we're stuck with all its deleveraging after-effects -- the worst case of "buyer's remorse" since the fall of Nazi Germany"

Love that line, brilliant.

:lol:

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Frankly the comparison is ridiculous.

It is hard to find analogies that hold true in all aspects of course.

Gorbachev is much disliked in Russia and credited with the downfall of the Soviet Union. But, like Obama, when he took over the decline was unstoppable as were the forces for separatism.

I think the American public, however, are far more aware that Obama inherited most of the problems.

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It is hard to find analogies that hold true in all aspects of course.

Gorbachev is much disliked in Russia and credited with the downfall of the Soviet Union. But, like Obama, when he took over the decline was unstoppable as were the forces for separatism.

I think the American public, however, are far more aware that Obama inherited most of the problems.

The mood is changing in the US:

obama_index_july_20_2009.jpg

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The mood is changing in the US:

obama_index_july_20_2009.jpg

yup they're catching on,

Our cousins across the pond are slowly starting to realise that the capitalisation of russia,and the sovietisation of their country were part of a hybridisation exercise.

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Gorbachev is much disliked in Russia and credited with the downfall of the Soviet Union. But, like Obama, when he took over the decline was unstoppable as were the forces for separatism.

So you think there are unstoppable forces for separatism in the USA at the moment?

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Why are we suddenly insulting Gorbachev by comparing him to someone so inconsequential?

If we want to compare Obama to any modern day "leader", surely Tony Blair is the only person we should consider.

This recession is, after all, the people's (slight pause but in a forceful stage whisper) RECESSION (with a small amount of spittle escaping at the end).

Edited by LuckyOne

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Why are we suddenly insulting Gorbachev by comparing him to someone so inconsequential?

If we want to compare Obama to any modern day "leader", surely Tony Blair is the only person we should consider.

the similarities are startling.

Full of talk with a good bedside manner,but will leave a trail of destruction in his wake.

a bit like this guy!

_43022345_shipman203.jpg

you can feel so much more comfortable knowing obama will keep his promise of cutting greenhouse gas emissions in a nice caring fashion....not :o

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the real issue here is not Jim Kunstler, but whether the USA is going to collapse like the USSR.

Frankly the comparison is ridiculous.

In 1980 people would have called the notion that the USSR would collapse ridiculous.

In 1930 people would have called the notion that the British Empire would be dismantled ridiculous.

There is already a 'Lone Star' movement in Texas, calling for independence.

Edited by blankster

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Excellent article. Especially liked this bit:

Certain types of mainstream economic behavior are not prudent on a personal level, and are also counterproductive to bridging the Collapse Gap. Any behavior that might result in continued economic growth and prosperity is counterproductive: the higher you jump, the harder you land. It is traumatic to go from having a big retirement fund to having no retirement fund because of a market crash. It is also traumatic to go from a high income to little or no income. If, on top of that, you have kept yourself incredibly busy, and suddenly have nothing to do, then you will really be in rough shape.

Economic collapse is about the worst possible time for someone to suffer a nervous breakdown, yet this is what often happens. The people who are most at risk psychologically are successful middle-aged men. When their career is suddenly over, their savings are gone, and their property worthless, much of their sense of self-worth is gone as well. They tend to drink themselves to death and commit suicide in disproportionate numbers. Since they tend to be the most experienced and capable people, this is a staggering loss to society.

If the economy, and your place within it, is really important to you, you will be really hurt when it goes away. You can cultivate an attitude of studied indifference, but it has to be more than just a conceit. You have to develop the lifestyle and the habits and the physical stamina to back it up. It takes a lot of creativity and effort to put together a fulfilling existence on the margins of society. After the collapse, these margins may turn out to be some of the best places to live.

Great news then, I've certainly managed to 'cultivate an attitude of studied indifference' since I quit the IT industry. Life's to short to get wound up about status and flash cars. Certainly not worth topping yourself over.

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So you think there are unstoppable forces for separatism in the USA at the moment?

No, I wrote that extremely badly, sorry. Those forces were of course in place in the Ukraine and the Baltics and in the satellites. But the decline and the breakup was all laid at Gorbachev's door.

I happened to meet Gorbachev at one time and he seems a very nice man - he was evidently a hopeless politician. I suppose you are aware that he is anti-Globalist . . . the downsides are a feature of his lectures for the Gorbachev foundation.

http://www.gorby.ru/en/default.asp

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the similarities are startling.

Full of talk with a good bedside manner,but will leave a trail of destruction in his wake.

a bit like this guy!

_43022345_shipman203.jpg

you can feel so much more comfortable knowing obama will keep his promise of cutting greenhouse gas emissions in a nice caring fashion....not :o

Ona side note, does anyone know of any GPs with the name Shipman? Or have they all changed their names because of the conotations?

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Ona side note, does anyone know of any GPs with the name Shipman? Or have they all changed their names because of the conotations?

The Shipside fellow at WrongMove is a bit too close for comfort ........

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:lol:

F*ck me....

You realize I am going to have nightmares over this quote

Likewise ......

I also think that it will be without the brawn too so it is not as fearful as it first appears to be .......

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He has a lot more experience of collapse than do you. :rolleyes:

He is hardly alone in experiencing state collapse. As it was the defining experience of his life he can be forgiven for looking for signs of a repeat on the flimsiest of evidence.

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