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The French Replace Bmw/merc...rep-moblies

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http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/241618/

Well done , 99 CO2 (thus free Road Tax) & 60-70 mpg.

& the end of some jumped up little p rick thinking he is Sir John Harvey-Jones when he just a REP!

Mike

I drove a 308 with 90bhp the other week and I think I could walk quicker. If BMW can sort their reliability out, they will be the ones to watch.

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I drove a 308 with 90bhp the other week and I think I could walk quicker. If BMW can sort their reliability out, they will be the ones to watch.

Do their diseasels have a bad rep? (no pun intended)

TFH

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BMW will want twice the price of anything Pug will offer. The days of the "BMW Bribe" are over...........he should be pleased he has a job!

Nope, Drug dealers are up in arms, they stick out lnow.

Mike

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low rolling resistant tyres are a bad idea!
Not really - grip and rolling resistance are obviously related but they arer not the same thing. If tyres are under inflated their rolling resistance increases but their grip reduces (on a solid surface anyway)
I can get 12mpg from my 450SE if I'm careful
Thinks......maybe I'll load my trailer with bricks and permanently attach it to my car then I might get my consumption down from 50mpg to 40mpg, or 35 if I'm lucky!
Do their diseasels have a bad rep? (no pun intended)
Peugeot won LeMans with a diesel-engined car this year. I don't know why people talk about 'diseasels' these days when diesels are generally more efficient, more reliable and longer-lasting than petrol engines! I would never buy a petrol car again except if I buy a classic car for a hobby.

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Peugeot won LeMans with a diesel-engined car this year. I don't know why people talk about 'diseasels' these days when diesels are generally more efficient, more reliable and longer-lasting than petrol engines! I would never buy a petrol car again except if I buy a classic car for a hobby.

I'm not convinced that modern diesels are more reliable/longer lasting. With petrol DI I would question the efficiency claim.

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I'm not convinced that modern diesels are more reliable/longer lasting. With petrol DI I would question the efficiency claim.

The only way to fully understand is to own one.

I agree that petrol has become more efficient but it can NEVER be as efficient, as there is simply less energy per unit volume.

You canna break the laws of physics :P

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I'm not convinced that modern diesels are more reliable/longer lasting. With petrol DI I would question the efficiency claim.
All lorries and buses have had diesel engines for decades. Nearly all vans and taxis are diesel.

Why? Because they are more efficient and reliable. In the early days fuel was cheaper for diesels too, which helped the change but that's no longer the case. Bedford trucks did offer a 6-cylinder petrol engine option in their TK mid-weight lorries until the mid 1970s but very few customers chose it. Incidentally, Bedford's slogan used to be 'you see them everywhere' which is ironic now.

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All lorries and buses have had diesel engines for decades. Nearly all vans and taxis are diesel.

Why? Because they are more efficient and reliable. In the early days fuel was cheaper for diesels too, which helped the change but that's no longer the case. Bedford trucks did offer a 6-cylinder petrol engine option in their TK mid-weight lorries until the mid 1970s but very few customers chose it. Incidentally, Bedford's slogan used to be 'you see them everywhere' which is ironic now.

"Why? Because they are more efficient and reliable."

I said modern diesels.

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The only way to fully understand is to own one.

I agree that petrol has become more efficient but it can NEVER be as efficient, as there is simply less energy per unit volume.

You canna break the laws of physics :P

"The only way to fully understand is to own one."

Find me one that revs to 7000 and I will consider it. Compare my 330 petrol with 272bhp and 38.7mpg on the combined cycle. Which diesels (except BMW 330d) gets close? And that is ignoring the noise, throttle response, lighter weight, powerband advantages that the petrol enjoys

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The OP has clearly never driven a 207 - a horrible little ******* of a car - offset pedals, awful seating position and slower than a fish cyclinrg a bicycle uphill. An awful awful awful car - lots of wind noise, a woeful stereo, unsupportive seats. But it looks nice.

I managed to get 37mpg out of the 1.4hdi and I was not deliberately caning it - I was trying to keep up with a VW Transporter van - and failed.

Anyone who buys one of these deserves my pity - it's terrible. AS for pretending reps will pass up on a comfortable car to do 500miles a day in one of these - er no. I'd rather a drive a Prius - and I hate those.

I'd not driven a 308 yet, but the very closely related 307 hdi 1.6 was another woefully slow thing - more offset pedals, more iffy dynamics, more wind noise and a secondary ride that makes you sick. Peugeot may have produced amazing cars in the 106, 205, the 405 and especially the 309 (for handling) but the current crop are just pants - the equivalent of ironing boards on sponge springs with concrete wheels.

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"The only way to fully understand is to own one."

Find me one that revs to 7000 and I will consider it. Compare my 330 petrol with 272bhp and 38.7mpg on the combined cycle. Which diesels (except BMW 330d) gets close? And that is ignoring the noise, throttle response, lighter weight, powerband advantages that the petrol enjoys

To misquote someone who I cant remember who it was....

'people buy horsepower but drive torque'

Having 272bhp at 7k rpm is nice, however the 0.34hp at 1.5k rpm is no use in normal driving.

Diesels give a better response in 'normal' driving, however I fully agree that petrol is the way forward for those who like a bit more 'sport'. The best figure to look at is the 30-70 time (usually in 4th) as this gives a good indication of how the car will perform on the roads. Most modern turbo diesel cares will crush their petrol counterparts in this, ie they have instant power in the normal rev range.

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I drove a 308 with 90bhp the other week and I think I could walk quicker. If BMW can sort their reliability out, they will be the ones to watch.

power is an illusion.

getting there quicker in a supercar doubly so.

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To misquote someone who I cant remember who it was....

'people buy horsepower but drive torque'

Having 272bhp at 7k rpm is nice, however the 0.34hp at 1.5k rpm is no use in normal driving.

Diesels give a better response in 'normal' driving, however I fully agree that petrol is the way forward for those who like a bit more 'sport'. The best figure to look at is the 30-70 time (usually in 4th) as this gives a good indication of how the car will perform on the roads. Most modern turbo diesel cares will crush their petrol counterparts in this, ie they have instant power in the normal rev range

no, they don't - it's not easy to be in the right gear all the time - my modern common rail turbo diesel is great on boost, but the response is absolutely terrible off it - if I had the equivalent petrol (non-turbo) with 150hp and the normal petrol torque, it would accelerate far better and smoother - so I have to change down a lot to make sure I am not left floundering with a 1.1 Saxo right up my @rse. I tend to trundle in as high a gear as possible round town to keep economy up and then drop 2 or 2 gears to accelerate when needed..... petrol's much better - even my petrol turbo has far far more flexibility.....

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it's not easy to be in the right gear all the time

To use a computer quote 'user error'. You can't expect a product to work correctly if you cant use it correctly. All cars drive differently, you need to adjust your driving to it.

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To misquote someone who I cant remember who it was....

'people buy horsepower but drive torque'

Having 272bhp at 7k rpm is nice, however the 0.34hp at 1.5k rpm is no use in normal driving.

Diesels give a better response in 'normal' driving, however I fully agree that petrol is the way forward for those who like a bit more 'sport'. The best figure to look at is the 30-70 time (usually in 4th) as this gives a good indication of how the car will perform on the roads. Most modern turbo diesel cares will crush their petrol counterparts in this, ie they have instant power in the normal rev range.

"Having 272bhp at 7k rpm is nice, however the 0.34hp at 1.5k rpm is no use in normal driving. "

I assume you are talking about the diesel, and I agree that turbo lag and narrow power bands are nasty. Plain nasty. Transient and static power outputs are very different on a diesel. An example: Pull away from a junction - by the time the turbo has started spinning you have already reached the 15mph that a typical nasty diesel does in 1st gear, so your torque curve is nothing like that you would see on the relatively steady state world of a dyno.

"The best figure to look at is the 30-70 time (usually in 4th) as this gives a good indication of how the car will perform on the roads"

I guess if that is your driving style. Personally I like to hear the straight six sing as it approaches 7000rpm, or the V6 howl as it passes 8000rpm (where conditions allow)

"instant power in the normal rev range"

This is revolutionary. I thought I was reasonably up to speed on engine designs, but am unaware of any turbo charged car that has completely eliminated lag and is identical to an NA engine in throttle response. Which engine are you referring to?

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I don't know why people talk about 'diseasels' these days when diesels are generally more efficient, more reliable and longer-lasting than petrol engines! I would never buy a petrol car again except if I buy a classic car for a hobby.

It's a personal observation but these newer diesels are asthmatic wheezy tractor-like sounding, they spew out nastyness (ask a cyclist or biker about that) and are tenatatively associated with a rise in respiratory disease and worst of all, they mostly have sporty little "TDCi" red/black badges imitating the old GTI badges and people on motorways think they're in performance vehicles. Consequently they sit in the outside / middle lane in their little bubble and the rest of the world can wait cos nobody could possibly get past their super-cars. I'm sure they would do the same in petrol cars by the way, it's just even more silly in an oil burner.

Ok rant over, as you were ladies and gents. :lol:

TFH

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The depression when I drove it was no illusion I can assure you.

I must admit, that a 10 minute journey in a crap car is very much longer than a 10 minute journey in a nice car.

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