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Epidemic Influenza And Vitamin D


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I suspect something similar. There's no doubt that sunburn causes genetic damage. There's also evidence that skin cancer is more common among white collar rather than blue collar workers.

I try to avoid long exposure at midday. Makes me cringe when I see people watching football or Wimbledon frying like lobsters. I'm quite surprised that you never hear about sportsmen getting skin cancer though.

Anyway, what supplements should I take then?

How much vitamin D3? 1000 IU?

And which fish oil supplement? There are so many! My research indicates that a total DHA+EPA of 300 mg is a good idea.

More excellent evidence. "You never hear about sportmen getting...". Brilliant.

I would certainly be interested to hear more about your "research". I bet it is rock solid.

Also, Jonny Storm is a wise choice for your health guru.

Edited by mirage
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I've been interested in vitimin deficiencies and wesern diseases latley. Especially the "vitimin" B17 deficiency theory of cancer, and vitimin C and heart disease/strokes.

Hmmm. laterile ('B17') has been around for something like 50 years. Lots of studies. No effect.

Vitamin C gets promoted for everything. Looks to be if anything slightly harmful in high doses.

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Vitamin D is also looking to be an anti-cancer vitamin. The irony is that its blocked by people wearing sunscreen.

Suncreen causes cancer.

Yes, I can trace my asthma troubles beginning back around 10 years ago when I became very aware of slapping loads of sunscreen on every time I went out in the Sun. I now make sure I get about 15 to 20 minutes without sunscreen these days in moderate sunshine.

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Vitamin D doesn't appear to have been banned by the EU (yet). I'm sure it won't be long before big pharma want to try and exploit this "miracle" vitamin so I would expect to see it's "recommended safe" dose reduced to a homoeopathic quantity for over-the-counter supplements and possibly even made prescription only in future.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/vitamins2.php

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Hmmm. laterile ('B17') has been around for something like 50 years. Lots of studies. No effect.

Vitamin C gets promoted for everything. Looks to be if anything slightly harmful in high doses.

Lots of studies? news to me.

Also Linus Pauling took massive doses for years and died in his 90s, very little of that came out in his urine. Other mammals that produce there own vit C have very high levels.

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If anyone is interested, I get all my health advice from this guy..

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/importa...-and-influenza/

Sign up for his blogs, they are very good. He is a real maverick, and a sceptic on all 'medical research'. He talks about how to read a research paper.

The book is amazing also.

I particularly like some of his thoughts about the flu written in may

"What can we do about this strain?

First, I don’t think it will amount to much because of the season. I’m a firm believer in the notion that reduced vitamin D levels in the winter predispose us to the flu and other viral infections at that time. Right now, it is late spring and nice and sunny with longer days. People are getting out more and building their vitamin D. For this reason alone, I don’t believe we’re going to see a pandemic.

It takes about 12 weeks to grow the virus in culture and use it to develop a vaccine, which is why the CDC can’t just crank out vaccine on the spur of the moment when a virus such as this one shows its face. And even if a vaccine could be cranked out, it takes a while after the vaccination to develop the immunity, so it wouldn’t help immediately anyway. Since there will be no vaccine, we need to turn to other techniques to protect ourselves. How can we do that? By doing all the things we need to do to bolster our immune systems."

Maybe not looking to him for all of your advice may be wise.

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Lots of studies? news to me.

Try google.

Also Linus Pauling took massive doses for years and died in his 90s, very little of that came out in his urine. Other mammals that produce there own vit C have very high levels.

Lots of other people haven't taken massive doses, yet lived to 90.

Some smokers live to 90.

What's your point?

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Excellent point. After all there is no real market for food suplements.

No trials have been done looking for benefits of various vitamins.

And no good evidence exists for the health benefits of free things like exercise and not smoking. You never hear anything about these two natural remedies because the drug and tobacco companies can't make money off them. In fact, since there is such a huge market for cigs, the peer reviewed literature is overwhelmingly in favour of smoking for its health benefits.

You are quite correct. It is never good to examine the actual evidence that one group or other has been able to assemble. A much more reliable way of establishing the truth is to simply imagine conspiracies and bias and discount any evidence produced from that group and be credulous about pure hypothesising from the other side. It is also best if we attribute our researcher biases in a way that bears no relation to reality.

I'm glad to see you agree with me.

Some smokers live to 90.

What's your point?

Most smokers die horrifically. What's your point?

As to the people who claim that vitamin tablets are just as marketted as drugs. Come on please, have you ever bought any of these? A fiver for 90 vitamin tablets or £1200 for a course of herceptin. (Which doesnt work anyway) Now tell me some of the cures that drug companies have invented. Can you think of any? All they ever come up with is ineffective treatments that keeps the cash coming in.

Something else to think on, our food today is less nutrient dense than it was 20, 30 , 40 years ago. This maybe why people are becoming more obese as they are consuming vast quantities of nutrient depleted foods trying to get their basic vitamin requirements.

Edited by Johnny Storm
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More excellent evidence. "You never hear about sportmen getting...". Brilliant.

I would certainly be interested to hear more about your "research". I bet it is rock solid.

Also, Jonny Storm is a wise choice for your health guru.

WTF are you on about? I know it's not conclusive proof but I'm just say anecdotally that I never hear much about tennis players or footballers getting melanoma. I can't think of even one case.

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If there's a strong link between Vitamin D and the susceptibility to flu, the fact that most types of flu are much more prevalent in winter certainly fits the theory. In Argentina, where it's winter now, the death rate from swine flu is 1 in 37, reportedly.

I've heard of cricketers being treated for melanomas. From what I've heard, the main risk if from getting sunburned, not from developing a tan sensibly.

Edited by blankster
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WTF are you on about? I know it's not conclusive proof but I'm just say anecdotally that I never hear much about tennis players or footballers getting melanoma. I can't think of even one case.

There are plenty. The most high-profile person in the last year being Tommy Burns, former Celtic manager and player.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-.../20080641316528

You need to read the papers and get out more often........... ;)

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Most smokers die horrifically. What's your point?

Anecdotes are not evidence.

As to the people who claim that vitamin tablets are just as marketted as drugs. Come on please, have you ever bought any of these? A fiver for 90 vitamin tablets or £1200 for a course of herceptin. (Which doesnt work anyway) Now tell me some of the cures that drug companies have invented. Can you think of any? All they ever come up with is ineffective treatments that keeps the cash coming in.

Vaccines have wiped out smallpox and reduced many previous killers to the point where people forget that there are even dangerous.

Antibiotics mean that death from infection is seen as abnormal.

Improved chemotherapy means that many previously 100% fatal cancers now have good cure rates (Lymphomas, Testicular cancer..).

There is plenty more. People nowadays regard pretty much all death under the age of 70 as abnormal, whereas only a few decades ago living to 70 was regarded as an achievement.

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Anecdotes are not evidence.

Vaccines have wiped out smallpox and reduced many previous killers to the point where people forget that there are even dangerous.

Antibiotics mean that death from infection is seen as abnormal.

Improved chemotherapy means that many previously 100% fatal cancers now have good cure rates (Lymphomas, Testicular cancer..).

There is plenty more. People nowadays regard pretty much all death under the age of 70 as abnormal, whereas only a few decades ago living to 70 was regarded as an achievement.

Chemotherapy is not a cure for cancer, it destroys the body in the hope of destroying the cancer. A lady at work had 3 bouts of cancer over a 15 year period. Ultimately ending in her death from pneumonia, each time it was treated not cured.

What about the common cold?

What about hiv?

What about alzheimers?

What about multiple sclerosis?

What about diabetes?

Im sure there are many more examples of things still not cured and never will be.

Smallpox was never cured either. A cure means you get it and its cured. Not that you are prevented from getting it. Though I agree that vaccines are probably as close to a cure as we'd ever get for something.

Antibiotics , yes great. Though some may argue that over use of the one cure has led to MRSA.

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I'm glad to see you agree with me.

Oh absolutely.

As to the people who claim that vitamin tablets are just as marketted as drugs.

Yes, I was waiting for you to get to those non-existant morons!

Come on please, have you ever bought any of these? A fiver for 90 vitamin tablets or £1200 for a course of herceptin. (Which doesnt work anyway)

Yes good point. And how many health suplements are sold each year and how many herceptin courses?

You are quite right again. Because herceptin costs more than vitamin D tablets, the $23 billion annual market for nutritional suplements in the US alone has neglibible resources and no incentive to show that a suplement has virtual panacea status, as no doubt vitamin D really does if only someone could cobble together a simple trial to show it.

Because a course of Herceptin costs loads, you see?

Now tell me some of the cures that drug companies have invented. Can you think of any? All they ever come up with is ineffective treatments that keeps the cash coming in.

Hmmm. Let's try to think of one...

Hmmmm.....

Hmmmmm....

No, I'm drawing a complete blank. No drug company has ever developed an effective product.

Edited by mirage
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Chemotherapy is not a cure for cancer, it destroys the body in the hope of destroying the cancer. A lady at work had 3 bouts of cancer over a 15 year period. Ultimately ending in her death from pneumonia, each time it was treated not cured.

Another brillaint point. Two in fact:

Johnny's point 1: Chemotherapy does (and presumably never has) not cure cancer. FACT.

Johnny's point No. 2: Some woman he knows died of cancer despite treatment. FACT.

What about the common cold?

What about hiv?

What about alzheimers?

What about multiple sclerosis?

What about diabetes?

What about sheer eye-bleeding stupidity?

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Chemotherapy is not a cure for cancer, it destroys the body in the hope of destroying the cancer. A lady at work had 3 bouts of cancer over a 15 year period. Ultimately ending in her death from pneumonia, each time it was treated not cured.

I'm sure an earlier death from cancer would be preferred. Modern medicine does not promise perfection and doctors will tell you that not everyone can be cured of everything. It's the alternative medicine people who usually tote the 'We cure everything' line.

In any case, you seem to be setting up a strawman here; modern medicine does not promise a cure for everything; but it takes pains to measure if treatments have any effect.

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Chemotherapy is not a cure for cancer, it destroys the body in the hope of destroying the cancer. A lady at work had 3 bouts of cancer over a 15 year period. Ultimately ending in her death from pneumonia, each time it was treated not cured.

What about the common cold?

What about hiv?

What about alzheimers?

What about multiple sclerosis?

What about diabetes?

Im sure there are many more examples of things still not cured and never will be.

Smallpox was never cured either. A cure means you get it and its cured. Not that you are prevented from getting it. Though I agree that vaccines are probably as close to a cure as we'd ever get for something.

Antibiotics , yes great. Though some may argue that over use of the one cure has led to MRSA.

There are always leeches if all else fails. Failing that, how about some bile chanting.

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Apart from Lance Armstrong, of course. Hardly managed anything after his chemo.

:rolleyes:

Let us not forget that Armstrong had surgery to remove the brain and testicular tumors.

Chemo is effective for Lymph cancers and pretty good for testicular cancers. The wider picture is very murky:

The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies.

Morgan G, Ward R, Barton M.

Department of Radiation Oncology, Northern Sydney Cancer Centre, Royal North Shore Hospital, Sydney, NSW, Australia. [email protected]

AIMS: The debate on the funding and availability of cytotoxic drugs raises questions about the contribution of curative or adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to survival in adult cancer patients. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We undertook a literature search for randomised clinical trials reporting a 5-year survival benefit attributable solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy in adult malignancies. The total number of newly diagnosed cancer patients for 22 major adult malignancies was determined from cancer registry data in Australia and from the Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results data in the USA for 1998. For each malignancy, the absolute number to benefit was the product of (1) the total number of persons with that malignancy; (2) the proportion or subgroup(s) of that malignancy showing a benefit; and � the percentage increase in 5-year survival due solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy. The overall contribution was the sum total of the absolute numbers showing a 5-year survival benefit expressed as a percentage of the total number for the 22 malignancies. RESULTS: The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in Australia and 2.1% in the USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1563084...Pubmed_RVDocSum

Edited by MOP
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