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Trampa501

Does The Minimum Wage Apply To Internships?

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Guest happy?
If not, surely there's no point in the miniumum wage ? (I'm assuming the following job ad. is illegal)

Gumtree Intern Job

I think you're spot on there. The job is obviously covering maternity leave and any comparison to the post would establish the position. Why would anyone with SQL skills work for peanuts.

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
Internships, apprenticeships, work placements\trials are all exempt. Nice loophole eh ;)

Consequentially job centres are now full of work placements, apprenticeships ,etc

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Internships, apprenticeships, work placements\trials are all exempt. Nice loophole eh ;)

...Initially, for eight weeks, only travel and lunch expenses will be covered. Depending on results there might be longer term paid position, providing maternity cover....

Be interesting to see whether the 'internship' gets re-advertised in 8 weeks.

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I think that the Intern should be forced to pay for the chance of getting some on the job training and something for the CV. It should be called a Webmastering Course and a few grand of fees should be paid by the 'student' to the 'company/education provider'. As a special bonus, the 'intern/student' will be able to get a student visa!

These people have no business acumen.

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Guest happy?
I think that the Intern should be forced to pay for the chance of getting some on the job training and something for the CV. It should be called a Webmastering Course and a few grand of fees should be paid by the 'student' to the 'company/education provider'. As a special bonus, the 'intern/student' will be able to get a student visa!

These people have no business acumen.

Indeed not - they would be teaching ESOL not web-monkey 101.

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The very reason they have to pay them nothing (other than expenses) is because they can't pay them less than minimum wage, even for a trainee position. Instead of the recruits potentially earning a small wage, they have to endure working for none. This is one of the exact problems MW causes, as is being discussed in the other MW thread it the moment.

EDIT: reworded.

Edited by Traktion

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The very reason they have to pay them nothing (other than expenses) is because they can't pay them less than minimum wage, even for a trainee position. Instead of the recruits potentially earning a small wage, they have to endure working for none. This is one of the exact problems MW causes, as is being discussed in the other MW thread it the moment.

EDIT: reworded.

So you think £5.80 or whatever it is, is too high a rate for the skills required for this job based in London?

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
The very reason they have to pay them nothing (other than expenses) is because they can't pay them less than minimum wage, even for a trainee position. Instead of the recruits potentially earning a small wage, they have to endure working for none. This is one of the exact problems MW causes, as is being discussed in the other MW thread it the moment.

EDIT: reworded.

What problem is that? The one in which people refuse towork for wages insufficient to meet basic living costs?

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What problem is that? The one in which people refuse towork for wages insufficient to meet basic living costs?

The problem where people have to work for nothing, instead of a small wage.

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So you think £5.80 or whatever it is, is too high a rate for the skills required for this job based in London?

If they fill the position with someone willing to work for free, it certainly looks that way.

Would it not be better if the employer could offer £3-4 ph instead of £0 ph? Do you thing being paid nothing is preferable?

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
The problem where people have to work for nothing, instead of a small wage.

They should close the loophole, simple as.

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They should close the loophole, simple as.

You want to stop people being able to do volunteer work in exchange for valuable experience?

edit: typo.

Edited by Traktion

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This has been a favorite trick of employers in Germany for years, to the point that they made laws to stop this (not too effective, but it's a start).

People end up in serial internships until they are in their 30's, and there are so many folks who are scared witless of a gap on their CV that they all pile in, but of course, no-one ever gets the job and a lot of companies have a sizable group of interns, working as hard as the people who get paid.

Btw, even if they paid the minimum wage, those free workers are still a very good deal for an employer.

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In the Observer, Alan Milburn is pointing out how the toffs still manage to keep the best jobs for their own kids. One way is to make Internships vital as a way into the professions.

This works in two ways. The toffs can afford to maintin their kids while they earn nothing. Just as importantly, the internships are filled through contacts.

It is the consequence of a requirement for prior experience in every job, unless the candidate is an immigrant who can lie about their experience with no chance of discovery.

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I would suggest watching 'In Pursuit of Happyness' (sic). It's a good film and apt.

IMO, if you can get people to work in a sector for free, there is too high a supply of people trying to get into the sector.

If there is only 1 job, with 50 people who will "do anything" for the job, then the employer is going to take advantage of this oversupply. They would get great value and end up with finding the best candidate.

There isn't much you can do about the situation, other than encourage fewer people to train into the job sector. Retraining into something where there are more jobs may be preferable to working for free, unless you are certain you are better than everyone you're competing with.

Would I work for free? If I needed the experience, yes. In fact, I did - I worked at a local Internet provider for free (back when they were small and local), as they were struggling to make any profit themselves. I was doing my A-levels and learnt a lot about Unix, the Internet and how to handle support calls, right when the industry was in its embryonic stages. This helped me get paid part time work from another ISP when at university. This lead to the same company taking me on full time when I graduated.

Would I have got the breaks without the volunteer work? Perhaps not. Am I glad I did it? Absolutely!

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Internships are legal, unfortunately. Very widespread in the meedya world. I know one gel who has been doing ongoing internships for 2 years. Ensures the middle classes continue to dominate the meedya.

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
I would suggest watching 'In Pursuit of Happyness' (sic). It's a good film and apt.

IMO, if you can get people to work in a sector for free, there is too high a supply of people trying to get into the sector.

If there is only 1 job, with 50 people who will "do anything" for the job, then the employer is going to take advantage of this oversupply. They would get great value and end up with finding the best candidate.

There isn't much you can do about the situation, other than encourage fewer people to train into the job sector. Retraining into something where there are more jobs may be preferable to working for free, unless you are certain you are better than everyone you're competing with.

Would I work for free? If I needed the experience, yes. In fact, I did - I worked at a local Internet provider for free (back when they were small and local), as they were struggling to make any profit themselves. I was doing my A-levels and learnt a lot about Unix, the Internet and how to handle support calls, right when the industry was in its embryonic stages. This helped me get paid part time work from another ISP when at university. This lead to the same company taking me on full time when I graduated.

Would I have got the breaks without the volunteer work? Perhaps not. Am I glad I did it? Absolutely!

Jesus wept, if you are calling on cheesy Hollywood films to support your argument you know you're on to a loser.

Edited by BoomBoomCrash

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In the Observer, Alan Milburn is pointing out how the toffs still manage to keep the best jobs for their own kids. One way is to make Internships vital as a way into the professions.

This works in two ways. The toffs can afford to maintin their kids while they earn nothing. Just as importantly, the internships are filled through contacts.

It is the consequence of a requirement for prior experience in every job, unless the candidate is an immigrant who can lie about their experience with no chance of discovery.

Excellent post, demonstrating why the working population of this country has been totally shafted by the elite in charge. An egalitarian society? Don't make me laugh.

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In the Observer, Alan Milburn is pointing out how the toffs still manage to keep the best jobs for their own kids. One way is to make Internships vital as a way into the professions.

This works in two ways. The toffs can afford to maintin their kids while they earn nothing. Just as importantly, the internships are filled through contacts.

It is the consequence of a requirement for prior experience in every job, unless the candidate is an immigrant who can lie about their experience with no chance of discovery.

I think that's how prestigous international organisations operate, eg. anything to do with the UN.

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Jesus wept, if you are calling on cheesy Hollywood films to support your argument you know you're on to a loser.

That film was good though - hardly cheesy and a true story to boot ...

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Jesus wept, if you are calling on cheesy Hollywood films to support your argument you know you're on to a loser.

It's a true story.

Avoid the rest of my comments and go for the easy point scoring though, why don't you? :rolleyes:

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