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Guest joeschmo

The Times.."work Longer Or Allow More Immigration"

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Guest joeschmo
Ultimately, for society as a whole, there are only three ways to lessen the damage that the demographic time bomb will cause. The first is to increase the birth rate so there are more workers to provide for the elderly. The second is to allow large-scale immigration from younger societies. (Turkey, which has a very young demographic structure, could provide the workers that an ageing Western Europe needs.) The third, and easiest option, is to increase the length of our working lives, which is exactly what the Government took another tentative step towards this week. The age at which workers can claim the basic state pension is already set to rise to 68 by 2050. It will probably rise again before too long.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/article6718090.ece

Even the leftie Times accepts that immigration provides economic benefits for us all

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Guest AuntJess

The fact that the" lefty TImes" thinks its a good idea is not reassuring to me. They evidently haven't worked out that pyramidial systems aren't a good idea.

Immigrants who come will in turn get old and need even MORE immigrants to come and support them, and so on, till the British Isles is wall-to-wall bodies.

Working longer seems OK to me. Where I live a good number of people over seventy work part time - in shops and stuff - and I took up my calling with the intention of doing it till late on in life. The only reason I am not working for money right now, is that I am already doing a 24/7 stint for nothing, and when it gets too tiring, "I" will be footing the bill to care for my OH.

It doesn't stop resentful pencil-necks on here from insults about my age, tho'.

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I am happy to work longer and have a lower income if it means a lot less immigration as my quality of life would be improved immeasurably by a reduction in the population rather than continually adding to the huge overcrowding in England.

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What a complete sack of shit that is, if for no other reason than it assumes productive, useful, and sufficiently well paid employment will magically appear to fulfil the demand for it created by the arrival of more immigrants.

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The current political European mater plan seems to be to get turkey up to a decent standard and then allow them in when the real demographic time bomb hits Europe around 2020-2030.

That will be the real mass migration within Europe. Something like 20 million turks could leave their homeland. Most of them will go to Germany and the uk.

The alternative is

to work a lot lot longer. Think 75-80.

Have lots and lots of babies really quickly (isn’t gona happen for many reasons)

Or we could export our old rather than import workers to take care of them.

I like the last option.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/populationest...d/uk/index.html

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What a complete sack of shit that is, if for no other reason than it assumes productive, useful, and sufficiently well paid employment will magically appear to fulfil the demand for it created by the arrival of more immigrants.

exactly

do you have any poof of that?

have you ever lived in any other country to be able to compare and see when you are somewhere overcrowded? this country is packed with dwellers compared to most of w europe just for starters

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/article6718090.ece

Even the leftie Times accepts that immigration provides economic benefits for us all

Joe. The article does not mean that the paper, or anyone else for that matter, accepts anything. It does prove the papre to be willing to balance opinions.

As others have commented, if there was less reliance on state benefits and we got all of our productive population to work rather than depend upon the state, then mass immigration would not be a neccesity.

Further to this, the whole issue of pensions and the welfare state needs a complete overhaul. I, as I am sure many others are, are sick of being fleeced through taxation to see it squandered. I do not mind paying for basic services like healthcare, policing, defence, education and basic local services, but I do mind paying for lazy scroungers, wasteful government schemes and inflated employment and pension payments within the public sector.

Less tax, more self insurance and sufficiency and less scrounging and state support. This would soon get people into work. I must admit though that I would find it difficult to want to swap some of my Polish co-workers for some of the lazy english scum that doss around in front of their plasmas, smoking and drinking all day!

Perhaps the way would be to rid ourselves of the latter group. I wonder if the BNP have a policy for that?

But Joe at the end of the day we are where we are, living in quite a small country with finite resources. The real issue is about controlling immigration. About ensuring we let in the right type of people in the right numbers. That is the only way to have positive benefits of immigration. Unfortunately at the moment this Government have few controls and have no will to do anything about it. They are building the pyre and putting our society on it.

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Joe. The article does not mean that the paper, or anyone else for that matter, accepts anything. It does prove the papre to be willing to balance opinions.

As others have commented, if there was less reliance on state benefits and we got all of our productive population to work rather than depend upon the state, then mass immigration would not be a neccesity.

Further to this, the whole issue of pensions and the welfare state needs a complete overhaul. I, as I am sure many others are, are sick of being fleeced through taxation to see it squandered. I do not mind paying for basic services like healthcare, policing, defence, education and basic local services, but I do mind paying for lazy scroungers, wasteful government schemes and inflated employment and pension payments within the public sector.

Less tax, more self insurance and sufficiency and less scrounging and state support. This would soon get people into work. I must admit though that I would find it difficult to want to swap some of my Polish co-workers for some of the lazy english scum that doss around in front of their plasmas, smoking and drinking all day!

Perhaps the way would be to rid ourselves of the latter group. I wonder if the BNP have a policy for that?

But Joe at the end of the day we are where we are, living in quite a small country with finite resources. The real issue is about controlling immigration. About ensuring we let in the right type of people in the right numbers. That is the only way to have positive benefits of immigration. Unfortunately at the moment this Government have few controls and have no will to do anything about it. They are building the pyre and putting our society on it.

Are you actually agreeing with Joe the ar se?

Look , immigration is out of control and needs to be stopped until we can get control, then and only then we can look at letting people in. Yes getting people into jobvs is a good idea but they cannot get them cause the immigrants are in them.

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Joe. The article does not mean that the paper, or anyone else for that matter, accepts anything. It does prove the papre to be willing to balance opinions.

Don't suck up to Joe, he is a grade-A tosser on a par with patprimer.

Just argue with him.

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have you ever lived in any other country to be able to compare and see when you are somewhere overcrowded? this country is packed with dwellers compared to most of w europe just for starters

so you have no proof?

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
so you have no proof?

I went to a bit of France once.

It was very quiet.

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Irelands fecked up, Californias screwed. Huge immigration occured in both over the last 20 years. both are basket cases. Immigration is a non-issue. Youre either for it or youre not. Its not going to solve the pensions crisis and its not the major cause of overpriced housing either. The only way we'll solve issues like pensions is with a government that doesnt have to borrow £300 billion a year just to keep the economy ticking over. Im not going to talk anymore about immigration, but people need to know labour have been a bloody abomination from start to finish in every sphere of govt. Being tortured to death is too good an end to Gordon Brown. I can only hope he rots in hell shortly.

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If we stopped paying out all the money to bogus asylum seekers, illegal immigrants, healthcare tourists etc then maybe we would have enough money to look after our own indiginous people in their retirement who have actually put money into the system.

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Guest AuntJess
The current political European mater plan seems to be to get turkey up to a decent standard and then allow them in when the real demographic time bomb hits Europe around 2020-2030.

That will be the real mass migration within Europe. Something like 20 million turks could leave their homeland. Most of them will go to Germany and the uk.

The alternative is

to work a lot lot longer. Think 75-80.

Have lots and lots of babies really quickly (isn’t gona happen for many reasons)

Or we could export our old rather than import workers to take care of them.

I like the last option.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/populationest...d/uk/index.html

QED for my comment in post #4

I find that extremely ageist in general and and offensive in particular. If I had been paid my professional rate ( a professional status I largely self-funded!!) all the hours I GAVE to those in therapy - when the PTB would not fund it, preferring to fund advisers/ counsellors for asylum seekers and immigrants, to ensure they collected their 'fair share' :blink: of benefits - then I could have retired to the likes of Mustique!

As it is, I have joined the ranks of the terminally unpaid to do work that this govt COULD fund if they did not:

Engage in illegal wars

Pay out benefits to people who are too lazy to work

Allow in unskilled immigrants and their unable-to-work dependents - the latter who add a further drain to the NHS

Bank roll the upper echelons in the banking system

Create dozens of pointless quangos to enrich their fat-cat mates and 'dependants' :rolleyes:

Shove their own snouts in the trough

Throw money about and create dozens of public sector posts.

Collude with self-destructive druggies and dole out free drugs to keep them functioning, in what is largely a useless existence.

As it is, I am faced with doing a thankless, nerve-wracking, physically draining task ..unpaid, and any help that I do get, I PAY FOR - in the knowledge that my OH and I paid our dues in taxes and NICs, only to witness people who never paid into the system ( incomers AND indigenous) get benefits lavished on them.

To pour even more water on this drowning rat, the money I managed to save for my old age - whilst others squandered theirs on 'riotous living', is now producing F*** All interest, so my capital is dwindling.

When YOU cells, have done as much unpaid work as I have..for as LONG as I have, and had to spend your savings on looking after your terminally ill OH ( where the added insult is that because his illness isn't called an illness - even tho' it is killing him very,very, slowly - and he is assessed as needing 'social care', so you pay thru' the nose for treatment and care)

You don't want to read/hear some little ill-informed upstart saying stuff like that.

As it is, I suspect you are merely a whining pencil-neck, whose self-pity is only exceeded by his insensitivity.

Quote - It was stated that 6 million Carers save this country over £87 BILLION POUNDS a year, enough to fund a second National Health Service.

Source - http://www.ukcarers.org.uk/

How much money have YOU saved the country, cells? <_<

[/Rant mode]

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Guest AuntJess
do you have any poof of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_popu...opean_countries

Check it out, bearing in mind that England is more densely populated than the UK.

Population density 2003

Ss(people per sq km)

England 130,281 (Area sq. km) pop.dens...........................

383

Northern Ireland 13,576

125

Scotland 77,925

65

Wales 20,732

142

United Kingdom 242,514

246

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Guest AuntJess

A further point worth noting is that immigrants from Europe have lower population densities than either England OR the UK, as a whole, Yet Brits emigrate to live in countries**with less overcrowding - indicating that Brits like room to stretch and breathe, and are more likely to benefit the economy of their chosen country, as they don't take jobs away from the natives. Why Eastern European come here, cannot be due to feeling claustrophobic in their own country.

**POP. DENS. of countries that Brits emigrate to

France = 108

Spain = 78

Oz = 6.4

NZ = 14

Canada = 3.3

North America = 32

http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/po..._density_0.html

These facts also give rise to the question, why are people from non-overcrowded countries coming here, thus reducing the chances of indigenous Brits, to find work, huh?

Don't gimme that 'Brits won't do lowly jobs' bullsh**: ALL my refuse collectors are English, and 70% of the caring team that I pay to help me to wash and dress my OH, are BRITISH.

Addendum - 100% of the carers in local day centre catering for the elderly are - WAS's -

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Guest joeschmo
as Mr Obama pointed out in his speech yesterday to the Turkish parliament, by adopting such underhand tactics the EU is wasting a valuable opportunity to build a broader relationship with a valued Muslim ally – one that is based on mutual interest and respect
.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegra...e-has-come.html

I think that I am with the Torygraph( never thought that I would agree with the mouthpiece of the Tory Party :o ) and the President of the US rather than France on this one.

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Guest anorthosite
+1

Not only your quality of life, but of those around you, which in turn breeds a more coherent cohesive society for those which want to belong, live and share the societal values which make up those of the British people.

Get yourself up to Scotland - you'd be welcome up here in the highlands!

I think its too cold for most immigrants up here :)

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