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Safety Questions Over Swine Flu Jab


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HOLA441
Guest happy?
I had gathered that but why tuna/salmon specifically as opposed to anything else in the sea?

The same reason plastic bags are a target for those who want to be lite-green. Obvious symbol, upsets no-one, has no real effect.

Reduce plastic bags by 48% economic & environmental impact - minimal. Go on fewer overseas holidays environmental/economic impact - quite a lot really.

We must be seen to be green.

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HOLA442
if it takes so long to produce and is so required then why are factories in other countries producing it for us? why don't they want it for their populace?

From the same article:

Countries with flu vaccine plants might decide to seize all vaccines and ban their export, thus breaking the pharmaceutical contracts promising other countries vaccine supplies. These private contracts are not binding international law between two countries, according to Fidler. He said most vaccine contracts include a clause allowing them to be broken under extraordinary circumstances, such as a health emergency. That would leave the countries who had brokered such deals not only without vaccine, but without legal recourse.
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HOLA443
From the same article:

"Countries with flu vaccine plants might decide to seize all vaccines and ban their export, thus breaking the pharmaceutical contracts promising other countries vaccine supplies. These private contracts are not binding international law between two countries, according to Fidler. He said most vaccine contracts include a clause allowing them to be broken under extraordinary circumstances, such as a health emergency. That would leave the countries who had brokered such deals not only without vaccine, but without legal recourse.

“There’s nothing in international law that helps you resolve this, it’s just a political nightmare happening in the midst of an epidemiological nightmare,†Fidler said.

Britain has ordered 60 million doses, enough to cover its entire population. But those doses are being manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline PLC and Baxter International Inc., whose production plants are in Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Neither Britain’s department of health or the vaccine manufacturers would comment on delivery plans. On Thursday, Britain’s chief medical officer estimated that as many as 75,000 Britons could eventually be killed by the swine flu pandemic, if 1 in 3 people are infected."

wouldn't surprise me at all if the diks in the government signed a contract that allowed it to be broken under extraordinary circumstances, like a contract for a vaccine needed during a health emergency, FFS!

So our vaccine is being made in germany, austria and czech republic. None of them too poor to be able to afford it or use it themselves so my guess - we get the first lot and when ze germans see that the guinea pigs are still alive - they use the rest.

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HOLA444
Some nations won't be able to afford it, I wonder what the cost would be for 6bn vaccinations? And then the staff to administer them.

Is the US govt planning to do the same?

About 70 percent of the world’s existing flu vaccines are made in Europe, and only a handful of countries are self-sufficient in vaccines. The U.S. has limited flu vaccine facilities, and because factories can’t be built overnight, there is no quick fix to boost vaccine supplies.

Earlier this week, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services announced it was spending $884 million to buy extra supplies of two key ingredients for a swine flu vaccine. The U.S. has contracts to get swine flu vaccines from Sanofi Pasteur, MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline and Novartis. Sanofi Pasteur and MedImmune both have vaccine plants in the U.S., while GlaxoSmithKline and Novartis have plants in Europe.

Even if the U.S. held onto all the swine flu vaccine produced domestically, it would still not be enough for all Americans. About 80 million Americans are vaccinated against the seasonal flu every year. In 2004, when problems with the U.S.’ flu vaccine supply at a British factory hit, there were less than 54 million shots available.

Link.

So, in 2004, the US had a problem because a British factory couldn't supply. Yet Britain are currently buying this years vaccine from abroad.

Doesn't make sense to me but I am sure there is a logical explanation.

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HOLA445
Because they're oily fish - mercury gets stored in the fat cells. He could have just easily said sardines.

ah..so the oily fish that they keep telling us to eat because they are good for us and good for our brains could actually be what exactly the opposite. Omega3 = mercury.

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HOLA446
ah..so the oily fish that they keep telling us to eat because they are good for us and good for our brains could actually be what exactly the opposite. Omega3 = mercury.

Probably only if you eat an awful lot of it. You can buy mercury free and PCB free omega-3 supplements if you want to avoid the risk.

Some info here on fish types:

To avoid mercury in fish, go deep

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/30/Food/To_...cury_in_f.shtml

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HOLA447
It does not take a scientist to understand the risk. Mercury is the second-most toxic element on earth (next to plutonium). It is a proven neurotoxin. Pregnant women are advised to restrict their fish intake due to mercury pollution. Yet we are injecting it into babies from the age of eight months. Why? The answer -- the only answer -- is that mercury makes vaccines cheaper.

Saw this way back on the first page, sorry if it's been questioned since then.

The fact that mercury is a toxic element has no bearing on whether ethyl mercury will be toxic as molecules can have very different characteristics compared to their component elements.

O2 is oxygen and is what you need to live 03 is ozone, a toxic gas. H20 is water, essential for life, H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide, something I would not want to drink.

I can go on, somethings are toxic but when you attache other bits to them they are not. If you don't believe me go and look up Gadolinium which again is very toxic but when part of a molecule used in medicine for MRI scans.

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HOLA448

Mercury levels in various species of fish.

ah..so the oily fish that they keep telling us to eat because they are good for us and good for our brains could actually be what exactly the opposite. Omega3 = mercury.

No. Sardines and salmon normally contain low-levels of mercury. It's the large, long-lived, predatory fish, such as shark, marlin, and tuna, which contain high-levels of mercury. Some waters, such as the North Pacific Ocean, also have higher levels of mercury from industrial pollution and undersea volcanic activity.

'Mercury Levels in Commercial Fish and Shellfish' [Table]:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product...y/ucm115644.htm

'What You Need to Know About Mercury in Fish and Shellfish -- March 2004':

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product...y/ucm115662.htm

'How Mercury Emissions Reach Tuna And Other Seafood, And Why Mercury Contamination Is Likely To Worsen' [May 2009]:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90501195628.htm

A new landmark study documents for the first time the process in which increased mercury emissions from human sources across the globe, and in particular from Asia, make their way into the North Pacific Ocean and as a result contaminate tuna and other seafood. Because much of the mercury that enters the North Pacific comes from the atmosphere, scientists have predicted an additional 50 percent increase in mercury in the Pacific by 2050 if mercury emission rates continue as projected.

'Mercury, Fish Oils, and Risk of Acute Coronary Events and Cardiovascular Disease, Coronary Heart Disease, and All-Cause Mortality in Men in Eastern Finland':

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/228

Conclusions-- High content of mercury in hair may be a risk factor for acute coronary events and CVD, CHD, and all-cause mortality in middle-aged eastern Finnish men. Mercury may also attenuate the protective effects of fish on cardiovascular health.

Mercury may increase the risk of cardiovascular diseases. In this study, high mercury content in hair increased the risk of cardiovascular morbidity and mortality in middle-aged Finnish men and attenuated the beneficial effects of fish oils on cardiovascular health. Regular consumption of fish with high mercury content should be avoided.

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HOLA449
yeah but, its never been tested by scientists, thats the point. It MUST have a certificate.

thats why I refuse to eat carrots...never seen a safety cert.

what's wrong with carrots??

weirdo. :lol:

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HOLA4410
A promoter sequence affecting stereochemistry wouldn't make it a promoter sequence as defined by phenomenological concept.

If you're a flu virus with a lot of well-binding haemagluttinin on your coat you might be sticking to more cells to infect them. So promoter sequences are obviously important.

I am using the term stereochemistry with this definition: the branch of chemistry concerned with the three-dimensional arrangement of atoms and molecules and the effect of this on chemical reactions.

Chirality is one of many elements of stereochemistry.

What an utter, utter load of cobblers. I really can't be @rsed to correct the large number of concepts you've conflated here, but the main thing you've screwed up is the difference between the tertiary conformation of a large protein (H), which can be altered mutations the RNA of the flu virus, and the chirality of the amino acids making up the protein which clearly can't.

At least now I know why you usually stick to facile, unfunny posts on the Australia thread.

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HOLA4411
Mercury levels in various species of fish.

No. Sardines and salmon normally contain low-levels of mercury. It's the large, long-lived, predatory fish, such as shark, marlin, and tuna, which contain high-levels of mercury. Some waters, such as the North Pacific Ocean, also have higher levels of mercury from industrial pollution and undersea volcanic activity.

'Mercury Levels in Commercial Fish and Shellfish' [Table]:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product...y/ucm115644.htm

'What You Need to Know About Mercury in Fish and Shellfish -- March 2004':

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product...y/ucm115662.htm

'How Mercury Emissions Reach Tuna And Other Seafood, And Why Mercury Contamination Is Likely To Worsen' [May 2009]:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90501195628.htm

'Mercury, Fish Oils, and Risk of Acute Coronary Events and Cardiovascular Disease, Coronary Heart Disease, and All-Cause Mortality in Men in Eastern Finland':

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/228

There are different kinds of Hg which have different chemistres which affect it's uptake. Hg is fish is not the same as the Hg that used to be in vaccines. Used to be.

Edited to add: like what enraged amb said.

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HOLA4412
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HOLA4413
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HOLA4414
Good question. I guess other countries would like to have it. I wonder if it is a first come first served basis. ie. We got our order in first.

Plenty of plants in UK. Maybe these are geared up for different products?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlaxoSmithKline

Thing is, vaccine manufacturing plants are specialised and from my experience there is only one in the UK (Speke, Liverpool, and I don't think that plant is running fully these days but I may be wrong there. It's changed hands a few times over the years).

Those GSK facilities don't have the capability to produce vaccines. Large scale vaccine production is highly specialised, pericularly if you using vero cells which means large fermentors full of mammalian cells and present a different set of challenges from using hens' eggs.

EDITED to add: there's a poster on this thread who works in Big Pharma who could add more than I can on this.

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HOLA4415
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
What an utter, utter load of cobblers. I really can't be @rsed to correct the large number of concepts you've conflated here, but the main thing you've screwed up is the difference between the tertiary conformation of a large protein (H), which can be altered mutations the RNA of the flu virus, and the chirality of the amino acids making up the protein which clearly can't.

At least now I know why you usually stick to facile, unfunny posts on the Australia thread.

Chirality refers to left and right-handedness of molecules

Chirality of molecules is one aspect of stereochemistry, not the only one.

At no point did I suggest that amino acid chirality was affected by gene sequences.

The stereochemistry of a protein is going to be affected by its tertiary conformation.

Stereochemistry

noun

The branch of chemistry concerned with the three-dimensional arrangement of atoms and molecules and the effect of this on chemical reactions.

Would you prefer pictures?

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HOLA4416
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HOLA4417
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
It isn't an adjuvant, it's a preservative.

Any other pearls of wisdom, Doctor?

So you're suggesting the antigenic properties of thiomersal which are well documented to induce inflammatory responses in tissue have no effect on induction of macrophage chemotaxis?

It is also a preservative.

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HOLA4418
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

My theory is that aussieboy has a rat up his **** about something.

Either a depreciating property portfolio, or overcompensation for doubts as to his intellectual ability, perhaps?

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HOLA4419

You don't appear to be a dozy, xxwhatever, you clearly are when you post one VI link after the next from the same source.

Credulous cretin.

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HOLA4420
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
You don't appear to be a dozy, xxwhatever, you clearly are when you post one VI link after the next from the same source.

Credulous cretin.

Have you recently bought an Australian flat?

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HOLA4421
So you're suggesting the antigenic properties of thiomersal which are well documented to induce inflammatory responses in tissue have no effect on induction of macrophage chemotaxis?

It is also a preservative.

The words are there, but the order is all wrong. Your continuing lack of understanding of what stereochemistry is, to which we can now add to that the role of macrophages in immunisation, demonstrates just how difficult it is being an autodidact is when you rely on the internet.

I'm buggered if I'm going to continue to educate an amateur scientist / professional idiot. Off you go and play with MOP in his autism / MMR sandpit: you seem to be bonding nicely so perhaps you can spend happy hours misunderstanding causation and confirming each other's bias.

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HOLA4422
The words are there, but the order is all wrong. Your continuing lack of understanding of what stereochemistry is, to which we can now add to that the role of macrophages in immunisation, demonstrates just how difficult it is being an autodidact is when you rely on the internet.

I'm buggered if I'm going to continue to educate an amateur scientist / professional idiot. Off you go and play with MOP in his autism / MMR sandpit: you seem to be bonding nicely so perhaps you can spend happy hours misunderstanding causation and confirming each other's bias.

Oh really?

New research supports a long suspected link between the use of mercury in childhood vaccinations and autism.

The study in the Journal Of American Physicians shows a drop of 22% in the occurrences of childhood autism when thimerosal is removed from vaccinations.

http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/home11.pdf

AussieCockend is more like it.

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HOLA4423
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
The words are there, but the order is all wrong. Your continuing lack of understanding of what stereochemistry is, to which we can now add to that the role of macrophages in immunisation, demonstrates just how difficult it is being an autodidact is when you rely on the internet.

I'm buggered if I'm going to continue to educate an amateur scientist / professional idiot. Off you go and play with MOP in his autism / MMR sandpit: you seem to be bonding nicely so perhaps you can spend happy hours misunderstanding causation and confirming each other's bias.

So, am I right in thinking that you're saying macrophages have no role in immunisation?

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HOLA4424
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

More specifically, that they do not have an important role in acting as antigen presenting cells ?

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HOLA4425
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Nice chap, that Aussieboy.

Do you think he's gone off to have a stroke?

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