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Dave Spart

Bank Crash Investigation

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To get a feel for the callousness and arrogance of the banking industry you could do worse than compare it to other industries.

Watch an edition of TV's Air Crash Investigation and you'll see not only how deeply affected air crew are by accidents, but how seriously the entire air industry takes accidents and how thorough and impartial their investigations are in a determined effort to prevent similar events happening again.

The banks just don't give a damn for the lives they destroy and the wreckage they leave.

Despite the biggest banking crisis in living memory the banks, where they can, are beginning to behave precisely as they were before the crash took place.

Surely its time that we The People initiated a mass class action against them, suing them for the economic damage they have wrought upon us all.

Do you think a pharamaceuticals company, a food company or a construction company would be allowed to get away with the reckless endangerment of the public's wellbeing in the pursuit of profits? So why are the banks?

Edited by Dave Spart

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The banks just don't give a damn for the lives they destroy and the wreckage they leave.

..the Government orchestrated it....in particular Brown...suggest you start there to seek the truth of the false economy... <_<

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Thing is we are talking about economic damage rather than loss of life or a company affecting public health through negligence. I expect there simply is no legislation or possible civil or criminal offense to charge any of the banks with.

Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations. This despite their vital central role in what passes for our global economy.

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Thing is we are talking about economic damage rather than loss of life or a company affecting public health through negligence. I expect there simply is no legislation or possible civil or criminal offense to charge any of the banks with.

Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations. This despite their vital central role in what passes for our global economy.

Yep, the omission of such legislation is glaring and tells you everything you need to know and its high time the banks were made to pay for the damage they have caused just the same way any other industry would be.

The assumption is that the regulators will take action on our behalf but if you understand what's meant by 'regulatory capture' you realise only The People taking action themselves through the courts will rein the banks in.

A number of times we've heard that if the plutocrats are prevented from going about their secretive rituals (hiding The Fed accounts or refusing Paulson his TARP funds) that society will descend into rioting and anarchy.

What a damned insult to our intelligence.

That argument might have worked a hundred years ago when so few ordinary folk had access to education and the law and no other way to vent their anger but here in the early 21st century we are a damn sight more clued up and composed.

What they fear more than anything is We, The People. We have the power to bring them to justice without so much as throwing a stone.

Edited by Dave Spart

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The obvious answer is that the banks can afford to buy off, one way or another, anyone in a position to cause them any real problems. I don't mean cash bribes, nothing that crude is required- just the dangled carrot of a nice lucrative job on the board will do. And lets face it, what legistlator or regulator would pass up a chance to suck the teat they can see, so tantilisingly close.

Being a politician or regulator and exposed to the proximity of all that easy money, just there- and all you have to do is do nothing to gain a share- who amongst us would not do the same?

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Thing is we are talking about economic damage rather than loss of life or a company affecting public health through negligence. I expect there simply is no legislation or possible civil or criminal offense to charge any of the banks with.

Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations. This despite their vital central role in what passes for our global economy.

...there is a difference between operational risk and business risk management. The situation in Banks is no boards were sacked when the Banks failed in their businesses ...I mean sacking without compensation / pension etc as is the case in smaller businesses ....it is up to the Goverment to legislate against no reward or compensation for failure in business .... <_<

Edited by South Lorne

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Thing is we are talking about economic damage rather than loss of life or a company affecting public health through negligence. I expect there simply is no legislation or possible civil or criminal offense to charge any of the banks with.

Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations. This despite their vital central role in what passes for our global economy.

Clear principles have been established in law such as threatening behaviour, damage to reputation, slander, libel, professional negligence, breach of contract, consequential loss and so on though i am not aware anything specifically relates to banking.

While no physical harm may have occured financial, emotional or mental harm is enough to bring a prosecution and the payment of damages to the aggrieved, in this case us.

Edited by Dave Spart

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...there is a difference between operational risk and business risk management. The situation in Banks is no boards were sacked when the Banks failed in their businesses ...I mean sacking without compensation / pension etc as is the case in smaller businesses ....it is up to the Goverment to legislate against no reward or compensation for failure in business .... <_<

the heart of the problem is a lack of morality and lax laws.

I have said a few times that I believe in the assertion that many Corporations are led by psyshopaths, i.e. people with no empathy for the emotions of others. If you work for one you will understand my point of view. The sad truth is that the lax encorages this type of person to succeed through lax regulation and weak law. Did you all know that the basis for corporate law is personal law. Corporations are effectively tread as a individual - i suspect this was to avoid the long and costly process of figuring out how Corporations would act and what laws would be appropriate. The simple answer was treat the entity no different to you and me. That of course is madness. Corporations then enjoy both ends of the risk and reward curve.

Sadly there is no answer in the west - we will repeat this mess in another 30 years

What will be interesting is to see if China and India are led by people with the moral courage of Lincolns generation - if they are not the world may get very ugly and fast.

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Thing is we are talking about economic damage rather than loss of life or a company affecting public health through negligence. I expect there simply is no legislation or possible civil or criminal offense to charge any of the banks with.

Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations. This despite their vital central role in what passes for our global economy.

I think you will find there are laws. Basell I and II and Sarbanes-Oxley. Banks engage in risk management just like Oil and Gas. And like oil and gas there are fires and explosions of a financial kind. Rule no. is simplicity - securities are so complex and opaque that banks dont know what they hold on their books. Its pathetic really but psychopaths easily manipulate the truth to suit their own ends (profit).

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Consider safety cases for the oil/gas/nuclear sectors where preventative measures to avoid accidents and 'events' are built in to operating practises. The banks have no similar legislative equirement to mitigate against downside risks arising from their business operations.

Excellent analogy.

What is NR or RBS if not the equivalent of Chernobyl.

Then as now, the Directors deliberately turned off all the fail-safe systems. When it overheated, it was too late to put the control rods back in. And now we're all in the Dead Zone for years to come.

The surviving Directors got ten years hard labour minimum.

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Then as now, the Directors deliberately turned off all the fail-safe systems.

...you credit them with more intelligence than they deserve....basically they had no idea what they were doing led by a salesman with an arrogant ego as CEO ....and a Chairman who in turn was lead by the nose....no they were the products of a Government lacking any moral fibre in a land living in a 'dwam'.....where people at all levels of society joined a Ponzi scheme....these people would not understand the meaning of 'fail safe' which did not exist in their world where risk was denied ....they were all part of the lemmings going over the cliff...the question is ....why were they compensated for such a death dance ...?.... <_<

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Surely its time that we The People initiated a mass class action against them, suing them for the economic damage they have wrought upon us all.

In what country?

Not sure about Iceland or Ireland. But in the US, and even more so the UK, the judiciary makes the bankers look like ... idealists volunteering for charity work. Feeding them something like this would be ... like the old lady who swallowed a fly.

Edited by porca misèria

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...you credit them with more intelligence than they deserve....basically they had no idea what they were doing led by a salesman with an arrogant ego as CEO ....

No, they did remove the safety mechanisms.

The banksters lobbied very hard for deregulation, and against any kind of regulation. And even some of the ratings agencies didn't program 'property prices can go down' into their models.

To continue the analogy, the Chernobyl disaster resulted from a 'stress test' put in place after the reactor was already over capacity. It failed. Just as the City would have failed any stress test from around 2002 onwards.

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No, they did remove the safety mechanisms.

The banksters lobbied very hard for deregulation, and against any kind of regulation. And even some of the ratings agencies didn't program 'property prices can go down' into their models.

To continue the analogy, the Chernobyl disaster resulted from a 'stress test' put in place after the reactor was already over capacity. It failed. Just as the City would have failed any stress test from around 2002 onwards.

+1. Glad somebody is still on the ball with this.

But sadly the anger of the general public is beginning to dissipate already.

You might have thought that Zanu - aware as they are that they are gonna get trounced at the next election, might just do something in the interests of the public at large, as their parting gift. But no, regulation is just way,way beyond their moral compass.

Shame on the clowns !

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The oh so arrogant bankster BOD blame all their woes on a global financial crisis and not at all about their total incompetance in allowing greed, short termism , over leverage and rash funding to line their fancy pockets. So far their only pain has been an embarassing session before HOC select committee and perhaps critical AGM but their life style have barely been impacted.

An English solution is needed...They have to be sent to Coventry, blackballed, blacklisted, exiled from all aspects of decent UK life

Specifically, have their portaits made up for an Iraq style deck of cards of the most unwanted. Stamp it with the words "NOT WELCOME HERE" Put the poster up in all of the places in UK that these teflon Tonies frequent and deny them access to the pleasure of UK life.

Theatres, Pubs, clubs, schools, sports and music events.. aim at their favorite haunts .. Twickers, Wimbledon, Henley, Badminton..

Why?? - because the establishment protects its own and there will never be a fair price paid for failure by "one of us"

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In some countries there exist laws on economic plunder. The Philippines introduced it after the massive theft of state funds by ex-President Marcos.

Its time we had our own. Lets petition Parliament before Brown dissolves it. His reaction would tell us everything.

Very tellingly there used to be a wikipedia page all about economic plunder but that seems to have been recently removed. I wonder why?

Max Keiser and Matt Taibbi would find that very interesting. People of that calibre can easily get interviews with Jimmy Wales.

Edited by Dave Spart

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All you've got to do is remove the banking laws. The banking laws are the method by which they bribed politicians into legalising their frauds. If the banking laws were removed, what the banks were doing (under ordinary corporate law) would be called fraud and trading while insolvent; penalty: jail.

But it won't happen, because the politicians and judges and bankers are all in the same (criminal) gang.

The fraudsters want the remedy to be "more regulation" (which they can then game). They don't want the remedy to be "banks are like every other corporation and shouldn't have special rules to let them commit acts which would be crimes if anyone else did them".

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