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Ritz & Marriott In Jakarta

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8155084.stm

Oh dear :(

It's on bbc news 24 atm. Looks like reasonably small explosions, the buildings are still standing.

I live in an apartment in the centre of Jakarta and was about to leave at 7.50 this morning when I heard the bangs and much too close for comfort! The first explosion certainly did not sound small to me . Frantic Police activity and hoards of people on the streets around g/zero but saw little building debris.

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Man Utd have cancelled their match there straight away. A Bigger repercussion for some out there, sadly.

Edited by deflation

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Man Utd have cancelled their match there straight away. A Bigger repercussion for some out there, sadly.

Every cloud..............

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Blimey GUs! Glad you're OK. What are you doing in Jakarta?

These buggers seem to follow me around . Derry in the early 80's and central London in 1986 I seem to recall.

All body parts currently present and correct , despite some heavy wear and tear on selected items.

I'll shut up now, not good to tempt fate.

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I live in an apartment in the centre of Jakarta and was about to leave at 7.50 this morning when I heard the bangs and much too close for comfort! The first explosion certainly did not sound small to me . Frantic Police activity and hoards of people on the streets around g/zero but saw little building debris.

Yet another appalling atrocity by terrorists, yet another giant leap backwards for Indonesia.

Many westerners know that Indonesia is the world's biggest muslim country. What they often don't know of is the lurking bitter resentment towards Westerners that lingers in Indonesian culture following colonialism and the action taken by Western countries after WWII in a failed bid to keep the country in foreign control.

Indonesia only came into existence in 1947. It has a short violent bloody history - the highlight for patriots being the ousting of former colonial rulers and the country's eventual independence.

Until about 600 years ago it was a mostly Hindu archipelago following its conquest by Ashoka the Great of Orissa, India. Islam became the dominant religion especially in Java following its Arabization. However try as they might, colonial invaders could never rid the islands of the local tribes's more primitve traditions including shamanism, black magic and Devil worship. Just over a century ago, rather than surrender to Dutch rule the local king in Bali took his life - with hundreds simultaneously following his example there and then. Incidents like that haven't been forgotten - or forgiven - by the locals.

Edited by Dave Spart

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Yet another appalling atrocity by terrorists, yet another giant leap backwards for Indonesia.

Many westerners know that Indonesia is the world's biggest muslim country. What they often don't know of is the lurking bitter resentment towards Westerners that lingers in Indonesian culture following colonialism and the action taken by Western countries after WWII in a failed bid to keep the country in foreign control.

Indonesia only came into existence in 1947. It has a short violent bloody history - the highlight for patriots being the ousting of former colonial rulers and the country's eventual independence.

Until about 600 years ago it was a mostly Hindu archipelago following its conquest by Ashoka the Great of Orissa, India. Islam became the dominant religion especially in Java following its Arabization. However try as they might, colonial invaders could never rid the islands of the local tribes's more primitve traditions including shamanism, black magic and Devil worship. Just over a century ago, rather than surrender to Dutch rule the local king in Bali took his life - with hundreds simultaneously following his example there and then. Incidents like that haven't been forgotten - or forgiven - by the locals.

Not Al Keeayda then, as Mr Brown likes to keep reminding whom we are fighting.

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Not Al Keeayda then, as Mr Brown likes to keep reminding whom we are fighting.

I keep thinking he's saying Alchi-Ada - in reference to some alcoholic loser.

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I live in an apartment in the centre of Jakarta and was about to leave at 7.50 this morning when I heard the bangs and much too close for comfort! The first explosion certainly did not sound small to me . Frantic Police activity and hoards of people on the streets around g/zero but saw little building debris.

Mr B was in Jakarta when it all blew up in the 90s. Landed literally as it all started - couldn't get into centre for over 24 hours. Taxi driver was throwing money out of the window in order to be allowed through makeshift road blocks. Eventually made it to service apt. at top of Hilton block where he watched the whole thing unfold for several days before the co. decided to pull him out. Indonesian friends drove him round to see the damage.

At that time a lot of the violence was directed at the Chinese, who were leaving (or trying to) in droves.

We had a holiday in Sulawesi and Mount Bromo etc. a few months later. Currency had collapsed and tourism was savagely hit, terribly sad. Stayed in a gorgeous hotel at the N tip of Sulawesi for a tenner a night, almost the only guests.

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Many westerners know that Indonesia is the world's biggest muslim country. What they often don't know of is the lurking bitter resentment towards Westerners that lingers in Indonesian culture following colonialism and the action taken by Western countries after WWII in a failed bid to keep the country in foreign control.

I heard that the KLM pilots still refer to Jakarta as Batavia in order to wind the locals up.

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Yet another appalling atrocity by terrorists, yet another giant leap backwards for Indonesia.

Many westerners know that Indonesia is the world's biggest muslim country. What they often don't know of is the lurking bitter resentment towards Westerners that lingers in Indonesian culture following colonialism and the action taken by Western countries after WWII in a failed bid to keep the country in foreign control.

Indonesia only came into existence in 1947. It has a short violent bloody history - the highlight for patriots being the ousting of former colonial rulers and the country's eventual independence.

Until about 600 years ago it was a mostly Hindu archipelago following its conquest by Ashoka the Great of Orissa, India. Islam became the dominant religion especially in Java following its Arabization. However try as they might, colonial invaders could never rid the islands of the local tribes's more primitve traditions including shamanism, black magic and Devil worship. Just over a century ago, rather than surrender to Dutch rule the local king in Bali took his life - with hundreds simultaneously following his example there and then. Incidents like that haven't been forgotten - or forgiven - by the locals.

You're quite right. All this stuff about the happy , friendly, Indonesian smile. Just scratch the surface lightly and watch the snarl quickly emerge .

There is indeed a deep and lingering resentment about the Dutch occupation and they continue to blaim them for many current ills. Of course, the real problem is the Indo. temperament: constant denial , lack of accountability and a complete refusal to take responsibility for their actions.What could have been a paradise has been turned into a cesspit in less than 50 years .

Now they are starting to rape Papua which is 3000 miles away from Java and occupied by people of different blood, religion and language. God forbid, but in 10 years they will have stripped it bare just as they have done with Borneo. No respect for wildlife, forest or man. Just I.. me... mine.

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Yet another appalling atrocity by terrorists, yet another giant leap backwards for Indonesia.

Many westerners know that Indonesia is the world's biggest muslim country. What they often don't know of is the lurking bitter resentment towards Westerners that lingers in Indonesian culture following colonialism and the action taken by Western countries after WWII in a failed bid to keep the country in foreign control.

Indonesia only came into existence in 1947. It has a short violent bloody history - the highlight for patriots being the ousting of former colonial rulers and the country's eventual independence.

Until about 600 years ago it was a mostly Hindu archipelago following its conquest by Ashoka the Great of Orissa, India. Islam became the dominant religion especially in Java following its Arabization. However try as they might, colonial invaders could never rid the islands of the local tribes's more primitve traditions including shamanism, black magic and Devil worship. Just over a century ago, rather than surrender to Dutch rule the local king in Bali took his life - with hundreds simultaneously following his example there and then. Incidents like that haven't been forgotten - or forgiven - by the locals.

You're quite right. All this stuff about the happy , friendly, Indonesian smile. Just scratch the surface lightly and watch the snarl quickly emerge .

There is indeed a deep and lingering resentment about the Dutch occupation and they continue to blaim them for many current ills. Of course, the real problem is the Indo. temperament: constant denial , lack of accountability and a complete refusal to take responsibility for their actions.What could have been a paradise has been turned into a cesspit in less than 50 years .

Now they are starting to rape Papua which is 3000 miles away from Java and occupied by people of different blood, religion and language. God forbid, but in 10 years they will have stripped it bare just as they have done with Borneo. No respect for wildlife, forest or man. Just I.. me... mine.

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These buggers seem to follow me around . Londonderry in the early 80's and central London in 1986.

Fixed. Glad you're unscathed, mind.

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Not Al Keeayda then, as Mr Brown likes to keep reminding whom we are fighting.

It's amazing having a Prime Minister who's incapable of pronouncing simple words, isn't it? What is transperrency? And someone has clearly told him to stop saying 'ten billions', the dumb Scotch idiot.

Interesting reading about Indonesia here, I was planning a holiday in Lombok :(

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Mr B was in Jakarta when it all blew up in the 90s. Landed literally as it all started - couldn't get into centre for over 24 hours. Taxi driver was throwing money out of the window in order to be allowed through makeshift road blocks. Eventually made it to service apt. at top of Hilton block where he watched the whole thing unfold for several days before the co. decided to pull him out. Indonesian friends drove him round to see the damage.

At that time a lot of the violence was directed at the Chinese, who were leaving (or trying to) in droves.

We had a holiday in Sulawesi and Mount Bromo etc. a few months later. Currency had collapsed and tourism was savagely hit, terribly sad. Stayed in a gorgeous hotel at the N tip of Sulawesi for a tenner a night, almost the only guests.

This is something I feel very strongly about.There is a lingering resentment towards a very large Chinese population here. The Chinese are to blaim since they exploit the Indonesians at every opportunity and all the while, as usual, the Chinese talk about "us" and "brother", but they regard themselves as infinitely superior to their hosts who they perceive only as a source of uneducated cheap labour.

What really angers me is that it's largely Chinese money which funds the rape of this country and when they've made their stash what do they do? That's right, leave their shit behind and immediately move to clean , fresh , verdant pastures in New Zealand and Brisbane and Singapore taking their money with them.

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It's amazing having a Prime Minister who's incapable of pronouncing simple words, isn't it? What is transperrency? And someone has clearly told him to stop saying 'ten billions', the dumb Scotch idiot.

Interesting reading about Indonesia here, I was planning a holiday in Lombok :(

Much nicer than Bali and I suspect much safer too.

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You're quite right. All this stuff about the happy , friendly, Indonesian smile. Just scratch the surface lightly and watch the snarl quickly emerge .

There is indeed a deep and lingering resentment about the Dutch occupation and they continue to blaim them for many current ills. Of course, the real problem is the Indo. temperament: constant denial , lack of accountability and a complete refusal to take responsibility for their actions.What could have been a paradise has been turned into a cesspit in less than 50 years .

Now they are starting to rape Papua which is 3000 miles away from Java and occupied by people of different blood, religion and language. God forbid, but in 10 years they will have stripped it bare just as they have done with Borneo. No respect for wildlife, forest or man. Just I.. me... mine.

Indonesia's trouble is that it went from an archipelago of primitive tribes to a modern dynamic global player in way too short a time. Blessed by the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, Europe evolved slowly from its addiction to superstition to develop the more rational train of thought we use today. Emotion was abandoned in favour clear, logical and selfless analysis.

I also suspect that our cold northern climate and the harsh discipline it brings is another big source of cultural difference. Indonesians, blessed with plentiful bounty needed for nothing. Have you ever wondered why cooler countries in the northern hemisphere have all had their empires (China, Japan Europe etc) and given the world so many astounding discoveries and inventions?

Ask yourself this: What contributions to human progress have ever came out of Indonesia? Nothing. Infact their airlines are even banned from flying in European airpsace, so poor is their attention to maintenance. In Indonesia status is everything. Being seen doing any kind of work puts you at the bottom of the hierarchy (a pernicious legacy of the Hindu caste system) and that's partly why many jobs are done so inattentively. Resentment wells up until it finally finds a way out. Being seen to get one over on someone is a big deal.

I know all this because my stranged wife is Indonesian. Though she was very beautiful, she was also extremely possessive, ostenatious and stubborn and often refused to listen to any kind of reason often to her own detriment. She was also very cunning, deceitful and harboured her own agenda and this was the cause of our split. If anyone reading this ever considered an Indonesian wife I'd say you're better off elsewhere in Asia, if that's your thing.

Given the attitudes I have seen in Indonesia I have seen towards issues like population growth and the environment I have little hope for Indonesia in the long term.

All that glitters is not gold.

Edited by Dave Spart

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Yep I was in Jakarte then it was a pretty intertseing time, no law and order and no protection if the mob turnes on you.

The rupiah devalued 1200% against the US and i was getting paid in Us $. During the riots I bought two shipping containers worth of real dutch javanese antiques and shipped them out.

Loved the place, the riots were good to, great people I really enjoyed it.

In 1997 when the Asian financial crisis hit and the rupiah collapsed, tourists in Bali were apparently buying whole houses on their American Express cards, much the same way Chinese tourists are now doing in California.

Economic collapse? That'll do nicely!

After the collapse the IMF went into Indonesia and practically dictated the management of the economy (Suharto was of course a CIA puppet).

The IMF haven't seen fit to do the same in the good ol' US of A. Stange, that.

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There was a group of yanks that went into BA after the peso collapsed and bought up the best real estate in downtown BA with US $. Then sold when peso recovered. The risk is that is doesn't.

Not to mention the risk of expropriation.

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