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neonwhizz

Going To Vote For Labour? Tell Us All Why ?

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From the Iraq war, stealth taxes, covert socialist conditioning, tax rises, transfer of wealth from poor to rich, dumbing down of education, the economy, pensions, debt, borrowing, public sector pay, public sector pensions, soft on crime, and billions of pounds available for bank bailouts but not enough money to give our troops the backing they need.

I am sure many others could add to this list.

Can anyone that still intends to vote Labour please explain why ?

My guess is there are 2 types of people that will still vote Labour;

1) Those that directly benefit financially, so either employed directly or indirectly by the government.

2) Those that always vote labour, because their dad, grandad, mother, whole familly always vote Labour, for you lot, the Labour party is not what it used to be, the working class sympathisers have been gutted out of the party, you need to re-think who you vote for.

I genuinely would like to hear anyone's reasons for voting Labour.

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From the Iraq war, stealth taxes, covert socialist conditioning, tax rises, transfer of wealth from poor to rich, dumbing down of education, the economy, pensions, debt, borrowing, public sector pay, public sector pensions, soft on crime, and billions of pounds available for bank bailouts but not enough money to give our troops the backing they need.

I am sure many others could add to this list.

Can anyone that still intends to vote Labour please explain why ?

My guess is there are 2 types of people that will still vote Labour;

1) Those that directly benefit financially, so either employed directly or indirectly by the government.

2) Those that always vote labour, because their dad, grandad, mother, whole familly always vote Labour, for you lot, the Labour party is not what it used to be, the working class sympathisers have been gutted out of the party, you need to re-think who you vote for.

I genuinely would like to hear anyone's reasons for voting Labour.

One reason for saying I'll vote labour is to wind up the frothing fury of political trolls. The simple pleasures are the best. ;)

But if you want something more serious can I suggest something learned over the years. These things move in cycles. You have to look after yourself and your family whatever the government. Your job has to be successful whatever the government. There are no time outs while you wait for the right circumstances to come around. If you believe that you can only live a good life under one particular political philosophy you'll be worse off than those able to live life whatever the government.

And from that viewpoint the specifics you mention become a lot less forceful than you imagine.

Iraq - Cameron would have done the same, he voted for it.

Stealth taxes - same old, nothing new under this lot. I first noticed it in the 80's although no doubt it went on before that.

Covert socialist conditioning - yeah right, and there's reds under my bed and I'd rather be dead.

tax rises - Cameron says he'll have to do the same

transfer of wealth from poor to rich - and you think that will not happen under a different govt?

dumbing down of education - been said for generations, not going to change when this lot is out of power

the economy - so we await a massive drop in unemployment and boom in shares and house prices when the tories take over? :)

pensions - did my pension collapse becasue of politics or because the highly paid people of supposed finacial brilliance who were charged with safeguarding my wealth turn out to have no special skills whatsover? clearly the latter.

debt - the people have a great deal debt (for pointless self aggrandisement) public debt at least (in theory) produces something that is useful

borrowing - see above

public sector pay - envy talking, everyone wants the free enterprise bonus culture in the good times and the slow solid public sector pay in the bad times. Life's not like that, you tak eyour pick and you live with the consequences. Nobody of any merit makes a living out of putting down others.

soft on crime - actually crime is a lot less than in the "good old days", its just some people don't find it politically correct to say so

bank bailouts - while some ecomonists might have preferred the babk sto fail the general public would be screaming blue murder if it had happened - no politician would have done different, it would have been suicide.

Money for troops - nobody ever has enough money, and from the above you advocate cuts, not spending more. Like a tabloid editor - take one view for a good story and then say the opposite if its another good story.

There's always an other point of view. When you think about it Thatcher was not evil like some tried to paint her. Major was nowhere near as useless as the image might suggest. Brown is nowhere near as stupid as folk try to pretend. Blair? Well perhaps I'll give you that one.

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Taxes, it wouldn't be the same if the Tories were in power.

I remember in 1998, 1 year after Labour came in, I was on my second job and not earning much, in 1 year I was £1400 worse off, a direct result of Labour scrapping the marriage tax allowance and mortgage tax relief and changes to NI payments.

Labour have not increased the Single Persons tax allowance in line with average earnings, the Tories at least did this every year.

Almost the entire income tax amount collected goes to paying out benefits, it is mostly all spent with the indirect taxes then paying for essentials. We should spend on defence / military, I also believe that the Tories would have gone to war, the US are twisting our arm, but Labour have failed to support our troops.

Labour inherited a reasonable economy and ruined it, that is the cycle of British politics.

Gordon Brown isn't that bad really ? If you are still not convinced then you never will be.

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Because despite its faults and mistakes (and who would not have made a few over 12 years) it is still IMHO, the best option we have for economic prosperity coupled with social fairness

http://www.labour.org.uk/building_britains_future

Economic prosperity ???

What prosperity, that is delusional statement to make.

Social fairness ? Please explain, do you mean that those on benefits should have the same lifestyle and standards that those who work do ? They shouldn't.

Labour have had 12 years, the first group that should have benefited if Labour was the party of social fairness is pensioners, we still have pensioners having to survive on £450 a month and they still need to pay council tax out of that. What social fairness ?

Two myths, that the Labour party have engrained into your mind, 1) taxes are good 2) the Tories will only look after the better off

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Because despite its faults and mistakes (and who would not have made a few over 12 years) it is still IMHO, the best option we have for economic prosperity coupled with social fairness

http://www.labour.org.uk/building_britains_future

I would like to vote Labour for those reasons but the reality of 10 years of Labour just dont back it up :(

- UK society is now less meritocratic than the mid-90s according to NGO surveys

- Brown did, to a greater or lessor degree, spend and did not save the proceeds of a boom to buy votes

- financial regulation was abandoned to create a vote winning boom

- as for "eliminating boom and bust" :blink:

- individual actions of the labour government smack of meaness: Gurkhas, ID cards, treatment of Iceland, etc

Fundamentally though, why vote for a centre left party if it isnt "nice"? :unsure:

No one could argue that Gordon Brown and his cronies are nice... :angry:

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Because despite its faults and mistakes (and who would not have made a few over 12 years) it is still IMHO, the best option we have for economic prosperity coupled with social fairness

http://www.labour.org.uk/building_britains_future

This has got to be a wind-up surely? Economic prosperity? For whom?

If I recall, on the night of the European Election results the political commentators (Nick Robinson et al) asserted that social inequality is worse now than under Thatcher; this wasn't refuted by - I believe - Harriet Harman who was also on the panel.

I really can't see how anyone could be a proponent of Labour now given their catalogue of fookwittery over the last 12 years.

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Look around you. Our Hospitals, schools and town cntres are much improved. There is still room for improvement, but it will not be achieved by Tory spending cuts and 'trickle down'.

Labour has made terrible mistakes, but they are not so fundamental as to make the Tories look like a realistic alternative.

This Party Conference season will determine who wins the next election. Can Ameron amaze us? I think not.

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Because despite its faults and mistakes (and who would not have made a few over 12 years) it is still IMHO, the best option we have for economic prosperity coupled with social fairness

That all depends on your definition of social fairness, which depends on your post tax, post benefits income, minus your cost of living.

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....

Labour inherited a reasonable economy and ruined it....

I am not normally one to use smileys, however, on this occasion;

:lol:

As for social mobility, that has not improved as Labour has not been left wing. To suggest it would improve under the Tories is, I do not believe, a genuinely held assertion.

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Look around you. Our Hospitals, schools and town cntres are much improved. There is still room for improvement, but it will not be achieved by Tory spending cuts and 'trickle down'.

Labour has made terrible mistakes, but they are not so fundamental as to make the Tories look like a realistic alternative.

This Party Conference season will determine who wins the next election. Can Ameron amaze us? I think not.

Schools are not improved, the buildings have been done up. The quality of education is p1ss poor and you know it.

Town centres, yes, our community shopping centre has had 3 needless facelifts over the last 9 years, I wonder who paid for that necessary expense. Hospitals, I know that doctors and managers are getting paid more, not sure about the nurses though.

The evidence does not match the ideology.

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Guest X-QUORK

I've voted Labour in the past, but the two big reasons why I won't be at the next GE are:

1. What they've allowed to happen to the economy.

2. ID cards.

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I've voted Labour in the past, but the two big reasons why I won't be at the next GE are:

1. What they've allowed to happen to the economy.

2. ID cards.

Because the sitting MP is a bloody good bloke who works extremely hard for his constituents and hasn't had his fingers in the till.The Tory who opposes him is wet and lives outside the area- a typical Cameron/Osborne candidate.Thirdly,although I personally dislike Brown I think he has avoided economic catastrophe and it wasn't his fault in the first place.This situation would have occurred whatever the government,unless of course it had been Arthur Scargill in power,then you would have had no private houses to have worried about the prices going up.

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Because the sitting MP is a bloody good bloke who works extremely hard for his constituents and hasn't had his fingers in the till.The Tory who opposes him is wet and lives outside the area- a typical Cameron/Osborne candidate.Thirdly,although I personally dislike Brown I think he has avoided economic catastrophe and it wasn't his fault in the first place.This situation would have occurred whatever the government,unless of course it had been Arthur Scargill in power,then you would have had no private houses to have worried about the prices going up.

"I personally dislike Brown I think he has avoided economic catastrophe and it wasn't his fault in the first place."

This is the crux of the problem, clearly Brown did cause the economic catastrophe, he allowed the deregulation of the banks to go too far and he spent everything we had not putting aside for a rainy day, but you still are not convinced that he had anything to do with it.

He did not avoid economic catastrophe, he borrowed money from present and future taxpayers and simply gave it to the banks. Not much of a plan, not much to take any credit for.

If people still can't see through this schiester then there really is no hope.

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As the general thrust of this thread shows, politicians are basically all the same, at least those representing the mainstream parties. They are nothing more than competing groups of middle-manager types after jobs and power. There is no significant political or philosophical difference between them. Voting Labour won't produce any significantly different result than voting Tory and, as has been pointed out, had we had a Tory government since 1997 we would still be basically in the same type of sh1t.

For these reasons I'll be voting for one of the fringe wacko parties in the (probably) vain attempt that the rest of them might actually get the message.

The situation we have is summed up very nicely in a saying my grandfather quoted to me years ago; "It doesn't mater who you vote for...the government always gets in!"

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As the general thrust of this thread shows, politicians are basically all the same, at least those representing the mainstream parties. They are nothing more than competing groups of middle-manager types after jobs and power. There is no significant political or philosophical difference between them. Voting Labour won't produce any significantly different result than voting Tory and, as has been pointed out, had we had a Tory government since 1997 we would still be basically in the same type of sh1t.

For these reasons I'll be voting for one of the fringe wacko parties in the (probably) vain attempt that the rest of them might actually get the message.

The situation we have is summed up very nicely in a saying my grandfather quoted to me years ago; "It doesn't mater who you vote for...the government always gets in!"

Actually I'm an instinctive (sp?) Labour voter, but I disagree with you

I think we would be in less of a mess if the Tories had been in power :unsure:

Brown's hubris was declare he had "eradicated boom and bust" and spend accordingly to buy votes with tax cuts, public sector wage increases and public sector spending increases :(

The tories would probably only have cut taxes, just by a lot more ;)

I do not think the Tories would have clamed to abolish the economic cycle, whatever their other faults :angry:

Therefore the UK would have been in a better position financially in having a lower structural defecit on the spending side ;)

I'm not convinced how much worse socially it might have been :blink:

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As the general thrust of this thread shows, politicians are basically all the same, at least those representing the mainstream parties. They are nothing more than competing groups of middle-manager types after jobs and power. There is no significant political or philosophical difference between them. Voting Labour won't produce any significantly different result than voting Tory and, as has been pointed out, had we had a Tory government since 1997 we would still be basically in the same type of sh1t.

For these reasons I'll be voting for one of the fringe wacko parties in the (probably) vain attempt that the rest of them might actually get the message.

The situation we have is summed up very nicely in a saying my grandfather quoted to me years ago; "It doesn't mater who you vote for...the government always gets in!"

I basically agree with all of that.What is making the difference for me is that I know the sitting MP and he does a good job for the money he is paid.I don't think you could say that about more than a hundred or so of the 646.If it came to a choice between Brown and Cameron I would not vote for either.

Claiming the Tories would have done this or that differently is futile because you just don't know.Thinking Cameron might have been harder on the banks would surprise me as his family background is banking and finance.

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I basically agree with all of that.What is making the difference for me is that I know the sitting MP and he does a good job for the money he is paid.I don't think you could say that about more than a hundred or so of the 646.If it came to a choice between Brown and Cameron I would not vote for either.

Claiming the Tories would have done this or that differently is futile because you just don't know.Thinking Cameron might have been harder on the banks would surprise me as his family background is banking and finance.

There I agree with you ;)

We would have ended up with a banking crisis with a labour or conservative government :(

But face facts, the next government is going to be conservative because they weren't on duty when the (financial) bomb went off in the city :blink:

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Look around you. Our Hospitals, schools and town cntres are much improved. There is still room for improvement, but it will not be achieved by Tory spending cuts and 'trickle down'.

Labour has made terrible mistakes, but they are not so fundamental as to make the Tories look like a realistic alternative.

This Party Conference season will determine who wins the next election. Can Ameron amaze us? I think not.

Based on a degree of waste and debt that has helped destroy the prosperity of future generations.

I am not convinced by Cameron but it is hard to imagine a more depressing and useless leader for our country than Mr'No more Boom and Bust' 'British jobs for British workers'.

If anyone is in doubt have a look through the records and profiles of the current labour front bench.......useless to man/ woman.

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If anyone is in doubt have a look through the records and profiles of the current labour front bench.......useless to man/ woman.

agreed

i think we have the shadow cabinet in it's entirety on these 2 pictures below

osborne-bullingdon.jpg

bullingdon-club.jpg

These poor chaps somehow clawed their way up to success in the political realm, every single one of them on their own merits.

This kind of meritocracy brings a tear to ones eye..........

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agreed

i think we have the shadow cabinet in it's entirety on these 2 pictures below

osborne-bullingdon.jpg

bullingdon-club.jpg

These poor chaps somehow clawed their way up to success in the political realm, every single one of them on their own merits.

This kind of meritocracy brings a tear to ones eye..........

Hmmmm.......well at least Hague isn't in there! :lol:

Scary isn't it...............the Eton Rifles vs Fatty Bully Balls, Mr British Jobs for British workers, The Badger and 'who needs elections' Bilderberger Mandelslime.

For me though whatever the answer it ain't ZaNu-Labour...........their economic idiocy alongside all their other multiple evils from Iraq to ID cards deserves a severe beating at the next election (catch the link back to Eton?)

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I'm more and more thinking that politics is an undulating wave of money and ideas that the parties ride on top of in more or less the same way, no matter what their nominal ideological differences. So you get the Tories building council houses and demolishing grammer schools, and Labour attempting privatisations and starting foreign wars.

The major changes that will happen in British society over the next 20 years will happen regardless of who is in power.

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I'm more and more thinking that politics is an undulating wave of money and ideas that the parties ride on top of in more or less the same way, no matter what their nominal ideological differences. So you get the Tories building council houses and demolishing grammer schools, and Labour attempting privatisations and starting foreign wars.

The major changes that will happen in British society over the next 20 years will happen regardless of who is in power.

Once again I find myself in more or less complete agreement.What I don't think however is that the next election is by any means a done deal.My private hobby is psephology and in front of me I have a phalanx of books covering the all post war British General Elections. What seems to be the common thread running through them is just how often you would have been wrong about the result a year before they took place.I am convinced that Cameron won't get a working majority and that a year from now he will be another ex-leader.

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