BecksMyCat Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) I made an account to have a look. The thread is only two pages long, so it might not really be worth the effort. I see some HPCs had signed in to give a rebuttal, but that is about it. Hamish didn't seem very popular on the thread. It seems that some of those that were put onto troll status were subsequently banned, which was about all I gathered from the Forum. EDIT: I have been corrected on another thread, despite what was claimed on MSE their profiles are still active Edited July 15, 2009 by BecksMyCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogs Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Those MSE scumbags! We need to have a rumble with them. Not a fight as such, I was thinking more of a "West Side Story" campy-dance-off-with-menaces type thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BecksMyCat Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Those MSE scumbags!We need to have a rumble with them. Not a fight as such, I was thinking more of a "West Side Story" campy-dance-off-with-menaces type thing. The only ones having a go at HPC seemed to be those that were banned from here. It wasn't really a debate of HPC just a couple of banned ex-members airing their grievances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbn Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 If it gets to more than 3 pages and has more than 5 contributors, then, I believe, it is officially classed as a mass-debate. I should know, - I been Mass-debating pretty much constantly since the Global economic troubles started in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) If it gets to more than 3 pages and has more than 5 contributors, then, I believe, it is officially classed as a mass-debate.I should know, - I been Mass-debating pretty much constantly since the Global economic troubles started in America. Hamish is trying his best to get everyone mass-debating over there about the Recovereh. W@nker. Edited July 15, 2009 by MOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogs Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The only ones having a go at HPC seemed to be those that were banned from here. It wasn't really a debate of HPC just a couple of banned ex-members airing their grievances. Stop spoiling my musical theatre fantasies. "Sibley! I've just met a troll called Sibbbleeee! And now that name will never be the same - to meeee" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reck B Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 FFS. Do you have to register now just to view the forum. Knobheads! First class cultism. (I may have mis-spelt that too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) I'm disappointed. Not one mention of 'dogbox' ('Conrad' is it, over there?) & apologies for your troubles getting in. I never thought mse was a fortress as it is a multi-use site with some useful info...... just a bit lame on finances & who is really running the show. EDIT:- Update. I take the first sentence back! Edited July 15, 2009 by Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BecksMyCat Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I think the debate here, about the debate is actually bigger than the debate itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveAndLetBuy Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow - Hamish has managed to cause a thread that is already three pages long while at the same time being banned from the forum. That's some going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadoube Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow - Hamish has managed to cause a thread that is already three pages long while at the same time being banned from the forum.That's some going! Have to admit trolling a forum where you can't post takes real skill. This round really has to be scored as a win for Hamish. Only fair, he lost so many other (more important) rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godless Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Looks like it's all a bit controversial on that particular board!This is from one of the sticky threads there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkman Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 You can read what you like on the forums, but to contribute we ask you to register. DON’T WORRY, IT’S FREE. We only do it to protect ourselves from spammers or forum rule breakers! Don't worry it's free? Well I suppose given the nature of the board that needed to be said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyHead Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Don't worry it's free? Well I suppose given the nature of the board that needed to be said hmnn.... free....... still seems a bit steep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 There are some class MSE'ers though. Like the bloke who called me stupid 'cause I thought he was bonkers buying Northern Rock shares a couple of days before it went bust... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxdiver Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hamish has been right about one thing. House prices in Aberdeen have defied gravity and are barely down from the Peak in UK prices. He is a little abrasive and I'm sure he has few good friends in his life. I feel sorry for him - underneath it all - he's a self-righteous and very bitter man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Wow - Hamish has managed to cause a thread that is already three pages long while at the same time being banned from the forum.That's some going! Hamish - gone but not forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 ? ...do people realise you are quoting their IP address ISP provider operating system and their current browser in your trailer as they read you comments ...?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation jones Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 ...do people realise you are quoting their IP address ISP provider operating system and their current browser in your trailer as they read you comments ...?... It seems really intrusive - why do you need that banner on your sig? What good does it do or does it harvest IPs for some unknown reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 ?...do people realise you are quoting their IP address ISP provider operating system and their current browser in your trailer as they read you comments ...?... yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I still can't find the thread - any hints? The thread only appears after you register. I seems to be a black sheep thread that Martin keeps hidden from public view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad the impaler Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 For all you Hamish fans, here is the first page of the thread. Hamish has caught the last train to cocksville as usual.... Yesterday, 3:47 PM #1 HAMISH_MCTAVISH MoneySaving Stalwart Join Date: Jan 2009 Post Count: 232 Thanked 176 Times in 94 Posts The Credit Crunch Is Over!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Or so says LoveMoney.... Quote: But hidden among all these announcements was the Bank of England's quarterly Credit Conditions Survey. It might not sound like a riveting read, but among the doom and gloom there was a ray of hope and an indication that we are beginning to experience the end of the credit crunch. What's the good news? Over the past three months, lenders have increased the availability of secured credit (mortgages and secured loans) to households - the first time since 2007. According to the Bank of England, this is because lenders have had increased availability of funds at lower costs. The increase also partly reflects the lending commitments made to the Government as a condition of lenders being allowed to participate in the Asset Protection Scheme. But more importantly, lenders expect a further increase in the availability of secured credit to households in the next three months. In other words, the credit markets have been slightly less crunched recently and this trend is expected to continue, resulting in more mortgages. Even better, demand for mortgage lending for house purchases was reported to have increased in the last quarter. However, demand for remortgages has dropped even further. This is unsurprising given the low standard variable rates on offer combined with the fact that falling property prices prevent many borrowers from remortgaging to release equity. Even more good news Lenders also expect a general easing in 'non-price terms' in the next three months. This means that lending criteria could become slightly more flexible - indeed lenders are expecting an increase in maximum loan-to-values (LTVs), plus a slight easing in credit scoring criteria in the next three months. So there should be more mortgages for those with smaller deposits. And a lot more, both good and bad, check the link..... http://www.lovemoney.com/news/mortga...over-3654.aspx The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to HAMISH_MCTAVISH For This Useful Post: Show me >> chucky (Yesterday), Dan: (Yesterday), Joeskeppi (Yesterday), StevieJ (Yesterday) HAMISH_MCTAVISH View Public Profile Send a private message to HAMISH_MCTAVISH Find More Posts by HAMISH_MCTAVISH Find all thanked posts by HAMISH_MCTAVISH Yesterday, 3:55 PM #2 Joeskeppi MoneySaving Stalwart Join Date: Apr 2007 Post Count: 671 Thanked 913 Times in 396 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Lenders also expect a general easing in 'non-price terms' in the next three months." Given the rates they are charging I guess they can afford a bit of extra risk. Should mean a lot less rejected mortgages and will help people with high LTV to remortgage, which is nice. Joeskeppi View Public Profile Send a private message to Joeskeppi Find More Posts by Joeskeppi Find all thanked posts by Joeskeppi Yesterday, 3:57 PM #3 Rollerball MoneySaving Convert Join Date: Feb 2009 Post Count: 182 Thanked 357 Times in 123 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by HAMISH_MCTAVISH the usual nonsense Here's another poster who spends way too much time stuck in front of his computer........ The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Rollerball For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), Hair Bear (Yesterday), nick74 (Today), rewired (Yesterday), shakerbaby (Today), themanbearpig (Yesterday), wolfman (Yesterday) Rollerball View Public Profile Send a private message to Rollerball Find More Posts by Rollerball Find all thanked posts by Rollerball Yesterday, 4:00 PM #4 inspector monkfish Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: May 2008 Post Count: 4,801 Thanked 2,577 Times in 1,417 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by HAMISH_MCTAVISH Or so says LoveMoney.... And a lot more, both good and bad, check the link..... http://www.lovemoney.com/news/mortga...over-3654.aspx are you alright mate??? inspector monkfish View Public Profile Send a private message to inspector monkfish Find More Posts by inspector monkfish Find all thanked posts by inspector monkfish Yesterday, 4:01 PM #5 chucky Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Oct 2004 Post Count: 3,188 Thanked 4,842 Times in 2,389 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lovemoney - not the greatest source hamish.... The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chucky For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), mramra (Yesterday) chucky View Public Profile Send a private message to chucky Find More Posts by chucky Find all thanked posts by chucky Yesterday, 4:05 PM #6 themanbearpig MoneySaving Stalwart Join Date: Jul 2008 Post Count: 285 Thanked 621 Times in 206 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Go back to HPC. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to themanbearpig For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), Hair Bear (Yesterday), rewired (Yesterday) themanbearpig View Public Profile Send a private message to themanbearpig Find More Posts by themanbearpig Find all thanked posts by themanbearpig Yesterday, 4:40 PM #7 LisbonLaura MoneySaving Stalwart Join Date: Aug 2007 Post Count: 296 Thanked 428 Times in 170 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by themanbearpig Go back to HPC. Hamish? Yes please. If he only knew how much he was missed The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to LisbonLaura For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), geoffky (Yesterday), Hair Bear (Yesterday), nick74 (Today), rewired (Yesterday), shakerbaby (Today) LisbonLaura View Public Profile Send a private message to LisbonLaura Find More Posts by LisbonLaura Find all thanked posts by LisbonLaura Yesterday, 4:53 PM #8 carolt Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Mar 2006 Post Count: 3,353 Thanked 8,396 Times in 2,673 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you two have a thing going? Not familiar with Hamish's, or indeed your, other online personas. For those of us who don't read HPC, can you explain the subtexts that I feel we're missing? Or am I the only one who doesn't know? Feeling left out. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to carolt For This Useful Post: Show me >> Hair Bear (Yesterday), rewired (Yesterday) carolt View Public Profile Send a private message to carolt Find More Posts by carolt Find all thanked posts by carolt Yesterday, 5:09 PM #9 Hair Bear MoneySaving Convert Join Date: Jul 2009 Post Count: 17 Thanked 34 Times in 12 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder why HPC banned Hamish. It's a real mystery that one. p.s. If we pay them a load of money will they take him back? The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Hair Bear For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), carolt (Yesterday), rewired (Yesterday), shakerbaby (Today) Hair Bear View Public Profile Send a private message to Hair Bear Find More Posts by Hair Bear Find all thanked posts by Hair Bear Yesterday, 5:21 PM #10 andykn MoneySaving Convert Join Date: Aug 2004 Post Count: 27 Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by carolt Do you two have a thing going? Not familiar with Hamish's, or indeed your, other online personas. For those of us who don't read HPC, can you explain the subtexts that I feel we're missing? Or am I the only one who doesn't know? Feeling left out. HousePriceCrash dislike any dissenting voice from their prevailing wish that house prices fall much further. To the extent that they gave myself, Hamish and a few others "Troll" status with no warming, explanation or notification. Hamish and some of the others were put on moderated posts, with moderating taking too long to make debate useful. I was left alone for a week or so after being given "Troll" status, then banned from posting, again with no warning, explanation or notification. To give you some idea of a typical HPC poster, some think it's evidence of our working together that we all disappeared at the same time. You couldn't make it up. To be fair, they are considerably hampered by their mods inability to analyse IP addresses; one seemed to think it was suspicious that I had posted from home, g/f, parents & holiday let residential IP addresses and one work address. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to andykn For This Useful Post: Show me >> carolt (Yesterday), StevieJ (Yesterday) andykn View Public Profile Send a private message to andykn Find More Posts by andykn Find all thanked posts by andykn Yesterday, 5:27 PM #11 ad9898 Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Sep 2008 Post Count: 3,393 Thanked 10,686 Times in 2,988 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by HAMISH_MCTAVISH Or so says LoveMoney.... The first line in Hamish's quote says this. Quote: But hidden among all these announcements was the Bank of England's quarterly Credit Conditions Survey Surely if the worst financial disaster since 1930 was over, it wouldn't be hidden would it ? I didn't get any further than this line as all credibility, once again was lost. ad9898 View Public Profile Send a private message to ad9898 Find More Posts by ad9898 Find all thanked posts by ad9898 Yesterday, 5:33 PM #12 mewbie Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Jul 2008 Post Count: 3,913 Thanked 14,756 Times in 3,684 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Credit Crunch Is Over!!!!!! Great. Lend us ten grand will you Hamish, I feel like splashing out. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to mewbie For This Useful Post: Show me >> brit1234 (Today), carolt (Yesterday), Hair Bear (Yesterday), nick74 (Today), Rave (Today), SingleSue (Yesterday), stuartm1 (Today) mewbie View Public Profile Send a private message to mewbie Find More Posts by mewbie Find all thanked posts by mewbie Yesterday, 5:35 PM #13 Hair Bear MoneySaving Convert Join Date: Jul 2009 Post Count: 17 Thanked 34 Times in 12 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by andykn HousePriceCrash dislike any dissenting voice from their prevailing wish that house prices fall much further. To the extent that they gave myself, Hamish and a few others "Troll" status with no warming, explanation or notification. Hamish and some of the others were put on moderated posts, with moderating taking too long to make debate useful. I was left alone for a week or so after being given "Troll" status, then banned from posting, again with no warning, explanation or notification. . Hamish does seem rather self-obsessed though. Maybe they banned him so he might seek medical help. I don't think this forum is the place to get that help. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hair Bear For This Useful Post: Show me >> mewbie (Yesterday), shakerbaby (Today), themanbearpig (Yesterday) Hair Bear View Public Profile Send a private message to Hair Bear Find More Posts by Hair Bear Find all thanked posts by Hair Bear Yesterday, 5:41 PM #14 mewbie Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Jul 2008 Post Count: 3,913 Thanked 14,756 Times in 3,684 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Hair Bear ...medical help. I don't think this forum is the place to get that help. You are so right. When I first arrived I mentioned how the housing / credit crunch was affecting my mental state of well being. Thanks to advice from certain quarters, I shall not name names, I spent most of July 08 using some Foxton sales particulars as a makeshift suppository. Had no obvious effect whatsoever. Thank Heavens Property Bee came along. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mewbie For This Useful Post: Show me >> carolt (Yesterday), Hair Bear (Yesterday), SingleSue (Yesterday) mewbie View Public Profile Send a private message to mewbie Find More Posts by mewbie Find all thanked posts by mewbie Yesterday, 5:50 PM #15 Graham_Devon Deliciously Dedicated Doubly Diehard MoneySaving Devotee Join Date: Aug 2005 Post Count: 26,828 Thanked 46,112 Times in 19,289 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yawwwwn. Hamish, your optimism is to be admired. However, it's getting tiresome and seems you only post to provoke reaction. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Graham_Devon For This Useful Post: Show me >> geoffky (Yesterday), Hair Bear (Yesterday), shakerbaby (Today) Graham_Devon View Public Profile Send a private message to Graham_Devon Find More Posts by Graham_Devon Find all thanked posts by Graham_Devon Yesterday, 5:56 PM #16 Conrad Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Jul 2005 Post Count: 3,326 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,709 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HPC banned me to, for the following comment; 'I bet you perma-bears are the type that only want to pay for what he ate on a mates night out, rather than splitting the bill' That was enough to get me banned (my name was dogbox). DID I STRIKE A RAW NERVE I WONDER? Pb's are money centric after all, fearing loss to an irrational unhealthy degree. Something to do with breastfeeding inconsistencies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a mortgage adviser You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code Of Conduct -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by Conrad; Yesterday at 5:58 PM.. Reason: sp The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Conrad For This Useful Post: Show me >> chucky (Yesterday), geoffgeofftygeoff (Today), Joeskeppi (Yesterday), matbe (Yesterday), StevieJ (Yesterday) Conrad View Public Profile Send a private message to Conrad Find More Posts by Conrad Find all thanked posts by Conrad Yesterday, 5:57 PM #17 Joeskeppi MoneySaving Stalwart Join Date: Apr 2007 Post Count: 671 Thanked 913 Times in 396 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Conrad 'I bet you perma-bears are the type that only wants to pay for what he ate on a mates night out, rather than splitting the bill' Probably a bit close to home that one! The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Joeskeppi For This Useful Post: Show me >> chucky (Yesterday), JonnyBravo (Today), matbe (Yesterday), StevieJ (Yesterday) Joeskeppi View Public Profile Send a private message to Joeskeppi Find More Posts by Joeskeppi Find all thanked posts by Joeskeppi Yesterday, 6:03 PM #18 Conrad Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Jul 2005 Post Count: 3,326 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,709 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Graham_Devon Yawwwwn. Hamish, your optimism is to be admired. However, it's getting tiresome and seems you only post to provoke reaction. Where as the PB's only post cold hard unbiased content of course Hamish seems reasonably balanced to me, and not blindsided by pessimism. we're off to hell in hand cart, mark thy words said by every perma-pessimist in the history of mankind. Do you know in 30AD a perma pessimist wrote this, in terms; Christmas has become a farce, a glutonous hideous materialist farce, where the original message has been lost. Could have been written yesterday by a dailymailer end is neigh type. The Victorian PBs told us the country had gone down hill due to gin drinking and that the streets had become yobbish - sound familiar? I love PB's. they never learn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a mortgage adviser You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code Of Conduct The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Conrad For This Useful Post: Show me >> Graham_Devon (Yesterday), julieq (Today), matbe (Yesterday) Conrad View Public Profile Send a private message to Conrad Find More Posts by Conrad Find all thanked posts by Conrad Yesterday, 6:05 PM #19 Conrad Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan Join Date: Jul 2005 Post Count: 3,326 Thanked 3,920 Times in 1,709 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Joeskeppi Probably a bit close to home that one! The official that banned me and sent me the glee ridden message was ONLYME, a quivvering jelly legged perma-bear. Why did my curry comment get to them, I'd truly love to know the answer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am a mortgage adviser You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code Of Conduct Conrad View Public Profile Send a private message to Conrad Find More Posts by Conrad Find all thanked posts by Conrad Yesterday, 6:09 PM #20 Graham_Devon Deliciously Dedicated Doubly Diehard MoneySaving Devotee Join Date: Aug 2005 Post Count: 26,828 Thanked 46,112 Times in 19,289 Posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Conrad Where as the PB's only post cold hard unbiased content of course Hamish seems reasonably balanced to me, and not blindsided by pessimism. we're off to hell in hand cart, mark thy words said by every perma-pessimist in the history of mankind. Do you know in 30AD a perma pessimist wrote this, in terms; Christmas has become a farce, a glutonous hideous materialist farce, where the original message has been lost. Could have been written yesterday by a dailymailer end is neigh type. The Victorian PBs told us the country had gone down hill due to gin drinking and that the streets had become yobbish - sound familiar? I love PB's. they never learn I'm sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you just typed is actually supposed to mean. I thanked you anyway, incase it was a bit of genius. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Graham_Devon For This Useful Post: Show me >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 I just tried to logout & see things from an 'outsiders' angle. I can't even see how to do that, & I thought I knew my way around the place. It must be under my nose but where?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 That whole thing with "The Following XX Users Say Thank You to XXXXXXXX For This Useful Post:" after some of the posts is a bit nauseating. Deep breath:- I pressed Hamish's Thxs button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mewbie Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hi. Just thought you might like to know that after 5,000 posts I got banned from MSE. IP address. Not sure if it was my attitude towards bulls, or the bullish stance of MSE's forum (all news is good news), or simply mocking a site that places free pizza above house price discussion. Anyway hi to anyone from there, who is over here - iyswim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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